When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[Underground44]

Is this stupid thread still going? .... seriously?

[DiceX]

I believe that pressing causes the text inside of comics to change. If you press a book enough times, you'll have a totally different story.

The evidence is there. It's blatantly obvious and nobody can make me believe any differently.

 

 

[DiceX]

Someone even told me once that pressing will make coupons inside of comics disappear.

I didn't believe it so I looked through all of my books and found the ones with clipped coupons, sure enough, the damned things had been pressed.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

As a collector with an interest in high-grade bronze-age books, I’m finding that more and more dealers/sellers are pressing books prior to making them part of their “high-grade” inventory (I’m talking, for example, bumping up a FN/VF book to a VF/NM -- possibly not high enough a grade to make it worthwhile submitting to CGC to turn over a profit -- but good enough to squeeze a $20 bill out of a buyer instead of a $5 bill). I don’t necessarily have a problem with pressing a book, but there’s some badly cooked flapjacks out there and that my bug-a-boo. Someone thinking their half-baked work is worth the extra coin. While I’ve only read pages here and there in this thread, and since bent staples and flattened gutters were already mentioned, there’s also the over-application of moisture when using a dry-press. The interior paper inks bleed through the paper on the front and back covers making, in my opinion, a mess. I’ve seen this far too often of late.

 

(see photos – sorry these are not as clear as I had hoped).

 

 

The inks from the back interior page ad bleeds into the white back cover, producing a pinkish colour.

 

 

I have some other books where the ads bleed through the front cover, making me think that it was better left unpressed or at least given to someone who knew what they were doing.

 

That's not pressing, that's caused by oil from ink on the interior of a book in an environment that wasn't ideal. A similar but more exaggerated effect occurs when you use a paper towel to soak up oil. Pretty sure it's called a transfer stain, and I'm also petty sure that while the micro chamber paper that CGC puts in books could be interleaved between any interior pages, they have chosen to place a sheet inside the front and back covers to help minimize future degradation of the cover by the interior.

[fantastic_four]

As a collector with an interest in high-grade bronze-age books, I’m finding that more and more dealers/sellers are pressing books prior to making them part of their “high-grade” inventory (I’m talking, for example, bumping up a FN/VF book to a VF/NM -- possibly not high enough a grade to make it worthwhile submitting to CGC to turn over a profit -- but good enough to squeeze a $20 bill out of a buyer instead of a $5 bill). I don’t necessarily have a problem with pressing a book, but there’s some badly cooked flapjacks out there and that my bug-a-boo. Someone thinking their half-baked work is worth the extra coin. While I’ve only read pages here and there in this thread, and since bent staples and flattened gutters were already mentioned, there’s also the over-application of moisture when using a dry-press. The interior paper inks bleed through the paper on the front and back covers making, in my opinion, a mess. I’ve seen this far too often of late.

 

(see photos – sorry these are not as clear as I had hoped).

 

 

The inks from the back interior page ad bleeds into the white back cover, producing a pinkish colour.

 

 

I have some other books where the ads bleed through the front cover, making me think that it was better left unpressed or at least given to someone who knew what they were doing.

 

 

 

I've seen the same phenomenon on lots of books that weren't pressed where the interior is almost visible through the front or back cover or there's color transfer onto the inside of the covers.

 

 

I agree that the transferred inks can naturally bleed through the front and back covers and in a relatively short time if not stored properly. It is however more pronounced on books that I know have been pressed (poorly) or have the trademarks of being pressed, i.e. flattened to oblivion. If I wasn't about to crash out right now, I would provide more visuals to substantiate my outrage.

 

 

That's a fantastic hypothesis. Here's another--I think the dampness and heat introduced into a comic by pressing creates a fertile environment for fungus to grow that causes disease. I think we're all getting sicker, and pressing is to blame. Pressing not only destroys the longevity of our comics, but it lowers our own lifespans as well. And I blame all the dirty rotten greedy pressers for it.

 

Give me a bit more time to work on another hypothesis I have that pressing causes the premature death of baby kittens as well...the link is clearly there, and I'm close to establishing it to blow the cover off this great evil.

[fantastic_four]

I believe that pressing causes the text inside of comics to change. If you press a book enough times, you'll have a totally different story.

The evidence is there. It's blatantly obvious and nobody can make me believe any differently.

 

 

+1

 

The science is sound.

[Underground44]

I believe that pressing causes the text inside of comics to change. If you press a book enough times, you'll have a totally different story.

The evidence is there. It's blatantly obvious and nobody can make me believe any differently.

 

 

Amen to this. I once had a Revival #1 that was pressed and turned into a AF #15 so it's possible for pressing to change a book from modern age to silver age.... Beware!

[jimbo_707]

I believe that pressing causes the text inside of comics to change. If you press a book enough times, you'll have a totally different story.

The evidence is there. It's blatantly obvious and nobody can make me believe any differently.

 

 

Amen to this. I once had a Revival #1 that was pressed and turned into a AF #15 so it's possible for pressing to change a book from modern age to silver age.... Beware!

The snide comments are a poor substitute for any substantive response as to why a defect caused by poor long-term storage conditions (slightly excessive temperature and humidity) could not ALSO be caused by the poor conditions that exist during a pressing (extremely high temperature and humidity).

 

How long does a book have to be in improper storage conditions for transfer staining to occur? Does it only happen slowly or is one bad heat wave for a couple of days enough to cause it? I get the feeling some people would rather not know.

 

Someone commented that transfer staining couldn't occur during pressing because inks are solvent based. And yet there are no solvents present in any storage conditions that I know of. So obviously acid can be released from the inks, causing staining, without solvents present.

 

Logic hurts.

[VintageComics]

I believe that pressing causes the text inside of comics to change. If you press a book enough times, you'll have a totally different story.

The evidence is there. It's blatantly obvious and nobody can make me believe any differently.

 

 

Amen to this. I once had a Revival #1 that was pressed and turned into a AF #15 so it's possible for pressing to change a book from modern age to silver age.... Beware!

The snide comments are a poor substitute for any substantive response as to why a defect caused by poor long-term storage conditions (slightly excessive temperature and humidity) could not ALSO be caused by the poor conditions that exist during a pressing (extremely high temperature and humidity).

 

How long does a book have to be in improper storage conditions for transfer staining to occur? Does it only happen slowly or is one bad heat wave for a couple of days enough to cause it? I get the feeling some people would rather not know.

 

Someone commented that transfer staining couldn't occur during pressing because inks are solvent based. And yet there are no solvents present in any storage conditions that I know of. So obviously acid can be released from the inks, causing staining, without solvents present.

 

Logic hurts.

 

The snide comments are coming because those that want to see pressing causing problems are seeing pressing cause problems even though the problems are not associated with pressing.

 

Transfer stains generally happen on most Silver Age and Bronze Age Marvels (as well as many other publishers books, but Marvels being the most predominant but Dell books also come to mind) when the oils that the interior inks are made out of begin to separated from the interior pages and transfer into the covers.

 

That's what gives you your "halo" on the center of Silver Age covers (especially white ones), making them appear translucent at times, and what gives you your red ink transfer on those BA books. I'm guessing the red ink is the earliest to separate on BA books.

 

What causes it? If I had to guess I'd say the ideal temperature, and more importantly time.

 

It's not an immediate thing to my knowledge. It takes time for that separation to happen.

 

FF stated it well - it's one of the reasons CGC uses interleaving paper during the grading process - the paper between the covers and interior pages act as a barrier (among other things).

 

Your comment from above:

 

Pressing could mimic those improper storage conditions briefly, right?

 

What if somebody heated the book to 350 F instead of 180-220?

 

It's not inconceivable to me that pressing could cause that defect.

 

...is only logical if you don't know better. After several people chimed in to show you that it's not related to pressing you continue to pursue that it possibly is. That's the type of logic that hurts.

 

If someone has before / aft pics showing that the defect was caused by pressing, I'd be open to discussing it (and I'm sure everyone else would be).

 

The people that are saying it's not related to pressing are not lying, they're speaking from experience.

[gaz973]

The snide comments are coming because those that want to see pressing causing problems are seeing pressing cause problems even though the problems are not associated with pressing.

It works both ways though and those who are invested in pressing may see lack of problems because they want to see lack of problems. Giving logical reasons why it isn't a problem is good while making stupid comments only weakens an argument and this is true on both sides of the discussion.

[comix4fun]

Someone even told me once that pressing will make coupons inside of comics disappear.

I didn't believe it so I looked through all of my books and found the ones with clipped coupons, sure enough, the damned things had been pressed.

 

 

 

Dear Dice,

 

Will the moisture used in pressing make the sea monkeys in the ad on the back cover come to life? I am deathly afraid of monkeys of all kinds and I just don't want to risk it.

 

I'll hang up and listen for me answer.

 

Signed,

Petrified of pressing perpetuated primates.

 

[comicwiz]

The snide comments are coming because those that want to see pressing causing problems are seeing pressing cause problems even though the problems are not associated with pressing.

It works both ways though and those who are invested in pressing may see lack of problems because they want to see lack of problems. Giving logical reasons why it isn't a problem is good while making stupid comments only weakens an argument and this is true on both sides of the discussion.

 

The slab is the ace in the back pocket. Inspection would mean cracking a slab open, which makes absolutely no sense when someone paid nosebleed prices on a high-grade book.

 

Before eBay, you had mail order grading problems. Sellers who felt they needed to over grade to get the price they wanted on a book played the "refund is in the mail" game and were really depending on suckers who couldn't grade, or didn't want to be too deep in the hole after factoring in shipping both ways or the hassle of hunting down a phantom cheque.

 

eBay just compounded this problem, but made it slightly more convenient for buyers to get refunds. You still had "eBay grading" that caused friction between sellers and buyers, and the height of unscrupulous activity was probably a three-way tie between using stock images for books and receiving crud, cobbling images from the web and sending empty boxes, or cracking out purple label books or blue label books and selling them as unrestored, or a higher grade than when they were slabbed. I know the laundry list is long, but you get the gist.

 

CPR is essentially enabling a different kind of over grading practice, that essentially attempts to pull the wool over buyers eyes. The major departure is that the slab legitimizes the practice, and discourages any kind of inspection beyond the cover wrap. You have no refund policies (because it's a CGC'd book), there are costs associated to requesting information on defects the slab conveniently hides, and the only recourse left to the collecting community is the long-shot hope a scan exists of the book in it's pre-CPR condition/grade.

 

Another difference is we'll probably see a dozen or so threads in a calendar year about Chuck and company over grading, over pricing, and pretty much over infuriating the collecting community, but CPR, which is the new over grading, just keeps trucking.

[DrWatson]

Someone even told me once that pressing will make coupons inside of comics disappear.

I didn't believe it so I looked through all of my books and found the ones with clipped coupons, sure enough, the damned things had been pressed.

 

 

 

Dear Dice,

 

Will the moisture used in pressing make the sea monkeys in the ad on the back cover come to life? I am deathly afraid of monkeys of all kinds and I just don't want to risk it.

 

I'll hang up and listen for me answer.

 

Signed,

Petrified of pressing perpetuated primates.

This is hilarious.

[Jeffro.]

Someone even told me once that pressing will make coupons inside of comics disappear.

I didn't believe it so I looked through all of my books and found the ones with clipped coupons, sure enough, the damned things had been pressed.

 

 

 

Dear Dice,

 

Will the moisture used in pressing make the sea monkeys in the ad on the back cover come to life? I am deathly afraid of monkeys of all kinds and I just don't want to risk it.

 

I'll hang up and listen for me answer.

 

Signed,

Petrified of pressing perpetuated primates.

This is hilarious.

 

Or snide, depending on the butthurt threshold of the reader.

[DamageInc-migration]

Is this stupid thread still going? .... seriously?

 

*whew* Thank god you're here, now we can close the thread

[DrWatson]

Someone even told me once that pressing will make coupons inside of comics disappear.

I didn't believe it so I looked through all of my books and found the ones with clipped coupons, sure enough, the damned things had been pressed.

 

 

 

Dear Dice,

 

Will the moisture used in pressing make the sea monkeys in the ad on the back cover come to life? I am deathly afraid of monkeys of all kinds and I just don't want to risk it.

 

I'll hang up and listen for me answer.

 

Signed,

Petrified of pressing perpetuated primates.

This is hilarious.

 

Or snide, depending on the butthurt threshold of the reader.

It's funny.

 

Unbunch your panties. Stat!

 

[Jeffro.]

Someone even told me once that pressing will make coupons inside of comics disappear.

I didn't believe it so I looked through all of my books and found the ones with clipped coupons, sure enough, the damned things had been pressed.

 

 

 

Dear Dice,

 

Will the moisture used in pressing make the sea monkeys in the ad on the back cover come to life? I am deathly afraid of monkeys of all kinds and I just don't want to risk it.

 

I'll hang up and listen for me answer.

 

Signed,

Petrified of pressing perpetuated primates.

This is hilarious.

 

Or snide, depending on the butthurt threshold of the reader.

It's funny.

 

Unbunch your panties. Stat!

 

 

zip it cornpone

 

And those aren't panties, they are a comic thong, CT for short

[Jeffro.]

Is this stupid thread still going? .... seriously?

 

*whew* Thank god you're here, now we can close the thread

 

His username is a metaphor for CG. I wonder if he followed its own advice.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

The snide comments are coming because those that want to see pressing causing problems are seeing pressing cause problems even though the problems are not associated with pressing.

It works both ways though and those who are invested in pressing may see lack of problems because they want to see lack of problems. Giving logical reasons why it isn't a problem is good while making stupid comments only weakens an argument and this is true on both sides of the discussion.

 

The slab is the ace in the back pocket. Inspection would mean cracking a slab open, which makes absolutely no sense when someone paid nosebleed prices on a high-grade book.

 

Before eBay, you had mail order grading problems. Sellers who felt they needed to over grade to get the price they wanted on a book played the "refund is in the mail" game and were really depending on suckers who couldn't grade, or didn't want to be too deep in the hole after factoring in shipping both ways or the hassle of hunting down a phantom cheque.

 

eBay just compounded this problem, but made it slightly more convenient for buyers to get refunds. You still had "eBay grading" that caused friction between sellers and buyers, and the height of unscrupulous activity was probably a three-way tie between using stock images for books and receiving crud, cobbling images from the web and sending empty boxes, or cracking out purple label books or blue label books and selling them as unrestored, or a higher grade than when they were slabbed. I know the laundry list is long, but you get the gist.

 

CPR is essentially enabling a different kind of over grading practice, that essentially attempts to pull the wool over buyers eyes. The major departure is that the slab legitimizes the practice, and discourages any kind of inspection beyond the cover wrap. You have no refund policies (because it's a CGC'd book), there are costs associated to requesting information on defects the slab conveniently hides, and the only recourse left to the collecting community is the long-shot hope a scan exists of the book in it's pre-CPR condition/grade.

 

Another difference is we'll probably see a dozen or so threads in a calendar year about Chuck and company over grading, over pricing, and pretty much over infuriating the collecting community, but CPR, which is the new over grading, just keeps trucking.

 

How is it overgrading though? I press my 9.0 and it becomes a 9.4 it is now a 9.4. It isn't overgraded. It isn't like at midnight the book is going to revert back. Heck, I think you could even argue that the book was always a 9.4 but poor care turned it in to a 9.0.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

Someone even told me once that pressing will make coupons inside of comics disappear.

I didn't believe it so I looked through all of my books and found the ones with clipped coupons, sure enough, the damned things had been pressed.

 

 

 

Dear Dice,

 

Will the moisture used in pressing make the sea monkeys in the ad on the back cover come to life? I am deathly afraid of monkeys of all kinds and I just don't want to risk it.

 

I'll hang up and listen for me answer.

 

Signed,

Petrified of pressing perpetuated primates.

This is hilarious.

 

Or snide, depending on the butthurt threshold of the reader.

It's funny.

 

Unbunch your panties. Stat!

 

 

zip it cornpone

 

And those aren't panties, they are a comic thong, CT for short