Ethical Limitations at Garage Sales...

[The-Collector]

About 15 years ago, I found a very old edition of Rudyard Kipling's "Barrack-Room Ballads, and Other Verses" in the basement stacks of a university library. When I opened it up, I saw that it had been inscribed to the original owner and signed by Kipling.

 

I (briefly) considered checking it out, not returning it, and then paying the nominal "lost book" fee, but in the end my conscience dictated the proper course of action, and I immediately turned it over the nearest librarian. The signature was eventually deemed authentic, and the book was put into the library's "Rare Books and Manuscripts" collection, where it remains today.

 

Not sure what I would have done if, say, the book had been priced at $1 and tossed onto a table with other poetry books in a library book sale (such things do happen from time to time); but I'm reasonably certain that a less scrupulous bibliophile would have checked out the book as shelved and never returned it if he/she had found it before I did.

 

Not everyone is inclined to do the right thing. So owners--whether institutional, like a library, or personal, like someone running a yard sale--really do need to be more cautious with their wares...

 

Theft of historic books is a serious problem for libraries.

[FlyingDonut]

I'm sure everyone who buys books from me for $3 is telling me right away that the books are worth more than that and will be sending me more money for them, correct?

 

What a crock this is. Seriously, this is laughable. Someone puts "offers" on something, I'm giving them an offer. If they don't want to sell it to me for that price, fine.

 

Someone puts a price on something? I'm buying it for that price. It isn't my responsibility to educate the seller.

[Columbia Comics]

I'm sure everyone who buys books from me for $3 is telling me right away that the books are worth more than that and will be sending me more money for them, correct?

 

What a crock this is. Seriously, this is laughable. Someone puts "offers" on something, I'm giving them an offer. If they don't want to sell it to me for that price, fine.

 

Someone puts a price on something? I'm buying it for that price. It isn't my responsibility to educate the seller.

 

(worship)

[Mister O]

I remember back in the 1990's I would go to my local comic book shop and sell them a comic book because I needed money at the time. The comic book dealer would offer 50% of the guide value as they required making a profit.

 

Was this unethical? It was not unethical because the fact is the dealer does require making a profit by offering below fair market value, as the customer will pay at or below fair market value. At the time it was my decision to either accept the deal or not.

 

Flip this scenario where the person who owns the comic is conducting a garage sale becoming the dealer. They are selling their wares to either clear up clutter within their house, or their need for extra money.

 

Is it really unethical that someone is purchasing an item from garage sale dealer that is priced by the owner agreeing to let go of what they deem unwanted? Items in garage sales are typically deemed by the seller as surplus goods that should be sold for quick dollar(s).

 

Everyone has freedom and rights in North America to pursue their capitalistic endeavors by simply educating themselves in understanding the fair market value of items in their possession. We as buyers are there to provide the money to the garage sale dealer and nothing more. There is nothing unethical in agreeing to purchase a price set by the owner willing to let go of that item for what they deem is a fair price. No one is stealing or taking away the item from the owner in this scenario.

 

The market for an item can go up and down every month. You need to look no further and see prices on GPA Analysis where the value of one comic would be $100 within the previous 12 months and the 90 day average price now is $60 instead. Market value goes up and down all the time, so that book you bought still has the potential to go down over time, nothing is guaranteed.

 

The ONLY time someone should use ethics in garage sale dealings is with children, the mentally challenged, language barrier, or senior citizen sellers. There are laws that protect the less fortunate in society from being taken advantage of.

 

This is the only time where people should use their ethical judgment when dealing with these types of sellers. Otherwise, whatever the person sets the price at is what is expected to be paid. So long as both parties agree on price, there is no wrong doing.

 

[musicmeta]

I'm sure everyone who buys books from me for $3 is telling me right away that the books are worth more than that and will be sending me more money for them, correct?

 

What a crock this is. Seriously, this is laughable. Someone puts "offers" on something, I'm giving them an offer. If they don't want to sell it to me for that price, fine.

 

Someone puts a price on something? I'm buying it for that price. It isn't my responsibility to educate the seller.

 

+1

[Aweandlorder]

[jaybes]

I remember back in the 1990's I would go to my local comic book shop and sell them a comic book because I needed money at the time. The comic book dealer would offer 50% of the guide value as they required making a profit.

 

Was this unethical? It was not unethical because the fact is the dealer does require making a profit by offering below fair market value, as the customer will pay at or below fair market value. At the time it was my decision to either accept the deal or not.

 

Flip this scenario where the person who owns the comic is conducting a garage sale becoming the dealer. They are selling their wares to either clear up clutter within their house, or their need for extra money.

 

Is it really unethical that someone is purchasing an item from garage sale dealer that is priced by the owner agreeing to let go of what they deem unwanted? Items in garage sales are typically deemed by the seller as surplus goods that should be sold for quick dollar(s).

 

Everyone has freedom and rights in North America to pursue their capitalistic endeavors by simply educating themselves in understanding the fair market value of items in their possession. We as buyers are there to provide the money to the garage sale dealer and nothing more. There is nothing unethical in agreeing to purchase a price set by the owner willing to let go of that item for what they deem is a fair price. No one is stealing or taking away the item from the owner in this scenario.

 

The market for an item can go up and down every month. You need to look no further and see prices on GPA Analysis where the value of one comic would be $100 within the previous 12 months and the 90 day average price now is $60 instead. Market value goes up and down all the time, so that book you bought still has the potential to go down over time, nothing is guaranteed.

 

The ONLY time someone should use ethics in garage sale dealings is with children, the mentally challenged, language barrier, or senior citizen sellers. There are laws that protect the less fortunate in society from being taken advantage of.

 

This is the only time where people should use their ethical judgment when dealing with these types of sellers. Otherwise, whatever the person sets the price at is what is expected to be paid. So long as both parties agree on price, there is no wrong doing.

 

+1 Well said!

[joecgcmaniac]

I'm sure everyone who buys books from me for $3 is telling me right away that the books are worth more than that and will be sending me more money for them, correct?

 

What a crock this is. Seriously, this is laughable. Someone puts "offers" on something, I'm giving them an offer. If they don't want to sell it to me for that price, fine.

 

Someone puts a price on something? I'm buying it for that price. It isn't my responsibility to educate the seller.

 

 

 

And everybody here who buys the hot modern for cover, then instantly flips it on e-bay for 10x more than they bought it for, goes back to the LCS and gives them more money, right?

 

[dover]

I'm sure everyone who buys books from me for $3 is telling me right away that the books are worth more than that and will be sending me more money for them, correct?

 

What a crock this is. Seriously, this is laughable. Someone puts "offers" on something, I'm giving them an offer. If they don't want to sell it to me for that price, fine.

 

Someone puts a price on something? I'm buying it for that price. It isn't my responsibility to educate the seller.

 

 

[rjpb]

Buy the book for 25 cents. If it's an Action 1...return to the sellers home after you sell the item & hand them a suitcase full of cash safely stash the book, and ask if they have any more comics for sale.

 

Everyone's happy

[DiceX]

I'm sure everyone who buys books from me for $3 is telling me right away that the books are worth more than that and will be sending me more money for them, correct?

 

What a crock this is. Seriously, this is laughable. Someone puts "offers" on something, I'm giving them an offer. If they don't want to sell it to me for that price, fine.

 

Someone puts a price on something? I'm buying it for that price. It isn't my responsibility to educate the seller.

 

This ^

 

 

[Aman619]

to many people comics are a very opaque and confusing collectible, and we take for granted how much we already know about which issues are valuable, which may be valuable soon, and how the condition affects the scarcity and value of a particular comic.

 

Ive had friends call me to say they found a box of their old comics, and when they tell me the ttitle nd issue #, I describe the cover and they are flabbergasted. But most of us can do it because we have so much time invested in the hobby.

 

but people out there who inherit or find odd comics around the house etc havent a clue. And a search on Ebay etc usually ADDS questions and confuses rather than helps them determine what they have and what its worth. Theyd really have to find a box of slabbed books and than join GPA - - and even THEN they wouldnt get how GA prices must be interpreted tobe useful.

 

I was given a stamp collection to sell. I figured shoot thers a Scotts Guide, and all US stamps are numbered - - EASY --- just like my comics!! Well, an hour into the Scotts guide and I had a headache trying to determine if my pink stamp from 1930 was rose, deep rose, rose hips (whatever) and how many perforations it had!! The further back you go, the more variations of each stamp you run into and they are mistfyingly difficult to figure out as a novice. (look at the early Classics Illustrated section in the Guide for a similar situation)

 

Our comics are the same for these people, so saying they had their chance to use the internet to do their research isnt entirely fair... and think, that could be YOU too someday.

 

 

BUT -- overall, Im in the camp that says they priced it, you are allowed to buy it. And Im not worrying a heck of a lot what Id do if I were offered an Action 1 for a dime. Chances are I'll be hit by a meteor first! But, to answer the question? Id pay the dime, and when I sold it try to send back some money in a way that didnt open the door to more issues with the seller.

[mintcollector]

I think a lot of people here are confusing 'educating a seller' with providing an answer to a question as to what something is worth.

 

First, an appraisal should NEVER be an offer to buy. This is a major issue that needs to be addressed. When I provide appraisals on antiques, as much as I may want the item in question; it is unethical for me to make an offer to buy the item at that time. I will appraise the item and then if the would be seller asks me if they know anyone who wants it, I will at that time tell them what I would be willing to pay. I do however, always encourage them to get other offers and weigh all costs. One of the best selling points I can make is that an auction house will take well over 20-25% in most cases; and you will have to wait about three to six months on average to get paid (usually more).

 

There are ethics that shoud be followed and they differ (unfortunately) per each collecting field. I have been working along with many other dealers to attempt to establish a standard board of professional ethics that would be adopted by the full antiques and collectibles trade. Thus far this is nothing more than empty talk. I also think there should be only ONE professional organization that works to lobby for the FULL trade. Antique dealers seem to operate differently than collectible dealers and vice versa. At what point are we going to learn that what each individual dealer does can impact the entire trade and the market? This has been a challenge, but within time a lobbying organization of this type will be accepted. There are smaller trade organizations, but I think one organized effort would be better equipped to represent the hobby as a whole.

[MK Ultra]

For such a stupid topic I'm surprised by the number of responses.

 

 

[chrisware]

I find the attitudes expressed by most of the people posting here to be pathetic.

 

It seems like everyone is so desperate to rip someone off and turn around and sell a comic for a "big" profit.

 

And you are all coming up with dodges, twisted logic, and irrelevant points to try to make yourselves feel better about it.

 

I find it particularly strange that Flying Donut first chimes in that this topic is a waste of time, then returns again to keep trying to hammer home how beneath him this thread is.

 

So why keep posting?

 

And the people quoting him with plus one and dreamy icons are sad.

 

No one is saying it's your job to educate people. No one is saying a crime is committed if you buy a book from some old lady for a buck that you know is worth $1000.

 

The original poster is talking about ethics--something it is quite obvious most of you know little about.

 

Needless to say--I will avoid spending my money with any seller who publicly favors ripping off people that might be less informed and then gloats about it.

 

And, on the off chance that some of you might be thinking of buying anything from my sales thread, keep your money. I would rather give my comics away for free.

 

As I have no interest in a back and forth on this matter with any of the people that will doubtlessly attack my post shortly, that is all I have to say.

 

P.S. Regarding the FF comic that had been stuffed in the 10 for a $1 bin, the truly ethical thing to do would be to buy it from the clerk who didn't give a mess and return it to the store owner subsequently.

[krighton]

About 15 years ago, I found a very old edition of Rudyard Kipling's "Barrack-Room Ballads, and Other Verses" in the basement stacks of a university library. When I opened it up, I saw that it had been inscribed to the original owner and signed by Kipling.

 

I (briefly) considered checking it out, not returning it, and then paying the nominal "lost book" fee, but in the end my conscience dictated the proper course of action, and I immediately turned it over the nearest librarian. The signature was eventually deemed authentic, and the book was put into the library's "Rare Books and Manuscripts" collection, where it remains today.

 

Not sure what I would have done if, say, the book had been priced at $1 and tossed onto a table with other poetry books in a library book sale (such things do happen from time to time); but I'm reasonably certain that a less scrupulous bibliophile would have checked out the book as shelved and never returned it if he/she had found it before I did.

 

Not everyone is inclined to do the right thing. So owners--whether institutional, like a library, or personal, like someone running a yard sale--really do need to be more cautious with their wares...

 

In the 70s I found a 1st edition of Lord of the Rings in my library, with map insert....I was in my early teens but at that time I still knew it was worth a lot...I was VERY tempted to check it out in order to pay the lost book fee.

[DiceX]

I find the attitudes expressed by most of the people posting here to be pathetic.

 

It seems like everyone is so desperate to rip someone off and turn around and sell a comic for a "big" profit.

 

And you are all coming up with dodges, twisted logic, and irrelevant points to try to make yourselves feel better about it.

 

I find it particularly strange that Flying Donut first chimes in that this topic is a waste of time, then returns again to keep trying to hammer home how beneath him this thread is.

 

So why keep posting?

 

And the people quoting him with plus one and dreamy icons are sad.

 

No one is saying it's your job to educate people. No one is saying a crime is committed if you buy a book from some old lady for a buck that you know is worth $1000.

 

The original poster is talking about ethics--something it is quite obvious most of you know little about.

 

Needless to say--I will avoid spending my money with any seller who publicly favors ripping off people that might be less informed and then gloats about it.

 

And, on the off chance that some of you might be thinking of buying anything from my sales thread, keep your money. I would rather give my comics away for free.

 

As I have no interest in a back and forth on this matter with any of the people that will doubtlessly attack my post shortly, that is all I have to say.

 

P.S. Regarding the FF comic that had been stuffed in the 10 for a $1 bin, the truly ethical thing to do would be to buy it from the clerk who didn't give a mess and return it to the store owner subsequently.

 

Get off the moral high-horse, buttercup.

 

 

[october]

Profits are illegal and immoral. You are all gypsies, tramps and thieves.

 

That is all.

[Flatliner1313]

It would have to be a pretty extreme case.

Like if an old woman sold me some Golden Age batmans for cover price or something.

If i sold any of them, I'd come back and give her a substantial commission.

 

If I was just going to keep them in my collection and not profit from them, then probably just pay asking price.

 

 

[dupont2005]

I do have a limit, and no, I wouldn't buy a thousand dollar comic for a quarter without telling the owner they had something valuable on their hands. I don't know why that idea offends so many on here.