Destroying mega key books for profit. What do you think?

[Rip]

I was wondering what others feel about this.

 

Books being torn apart and sold for more than what the book would normally get if the book was left alone as a coverless or low grade copy.

 

In the near future I can see this trend increasing to a point where fewer and fewer low grade copies exist for Batman 1, Superman 1, Action Comics 1 etc. etc.

 

Part of me wants to write a letter to CGC stating that they are contributing to this problem by agreeing to authenticate loose pages. I can sort of understand the grading of wraps where the loose pages can be someday put back into a book, but still I find it a slippery slope.

 

Does anyone else see this as a problem for collectors looking for a low grade copy in the near future? What do you think?

 

 

[Mr 9.8]

I'm in the Keep the book together camp if you can help it.

Unless the book is practically falling apart, than sure why not?

[HouseofComics.Com]

Interesting topic. I was kind of surprised at the notion that individual pages are starting to add up to more than a coverless copy.

 

Maybe now buying a coverless copy is like buying a run of 32 pages and everyone knows when you buy a set you want a discount.

 

But maybe this is just the trend that I saw mentioned in a lot of OPG market reports. People keep getting priced out of the books they want and settle for low grade. Low grade is doing well and is an easy sell. So it makes sense that people want a shred of a mega key and they can afford to pay a bigger than proportional piece.

 

If you have one page of Action 1 you have part of history. If you have a few pages but still an incomplete copy, it's not that much more thrilling, proportionally. So the per page goes for more.

 

What are some real world examples of what a mega key coverless goes for vs what the pages are selling for?

[Rip]

GPA has sales of pages then note the page/wrap and amount. Also you can look around and see what they have been selling for.

 

Take for example Batman 1.

A Batman 1 coverless will get you 5K. But if I remove each page and sell them 1 by 1, I can get anywhere from $150-$1200 a page, now times that by 32.

 

It makes even more sense when the book is missing the first wrap(s) and or centerfold. When the mega key is missing those pieces it sells for often much less than the coverless complete book. Further increasing the odds of tearing it apart for profit. Although those pages (the centerfold and first wrap) tend to go for more.

 

 

[PovertyRow]

If you have one page of Action 1 you have part of history. If you have a few pages but still an incomplete copy, it's not that much more thrilling, proportionally. So the per page goes for more.

 

That's an interesting take. That one page might be viewed as something more "complete" as it is only meant to represent, well, one page. Whereas, as you implied, a few pages would start to fall into the "book" category and it would be perceived as an uber-low grade incomplete "book".

[gaz973]

CGC classifies trimming as destruction and collectors generally abhor it. How is cutting up a book to sell pieces off separately, that much better?

[HouseofComics.Com]

That's an interesting take. That one page might be viewed as something more "complete" as it is only meant to represent, well, one page. Whereas, as you implied, a few pages would start to fall into the "book" category and it would be perceived as an uber-low grade incomplete "book".

 

Thinking further about the single page mindset, I wonder if the ratio can get even more microtuned, with a book like Batman 1.

 

Ie, I like the Huge Strange story, so I might pay more than the average bat fan for a page from that. Someone else loves Catwoman so he or she will pay more for that one. And the Joker fans fight over those pages. And the guy who has less money but still wants the history and bragging rights pays more than anyone else (but still much less than accompanying pages) for a humor page or ad page. This way each page is getting maximized even more than one would think.

 

 

[Balham's Finest]

Take for example Batman 1.

A Batman 1 coverless will get you 5K. But if I remove each page and sell them 1 by 1, I can get anywhere from $150-$1200 a page, now times that by 32.

 

 

You would times by 16, not by 32...

 

Unless of course it was 64 pages long, in which case me

[DrWatson]

CGC classifies trimming as destruction and collectors generally abhor it. How is cutting up a book to sell pieces off separately, that much better?

Because the beginning product is already a turd. Plus, it's not being trimmed to remove a superfluous defect. It's taken apart and sold individually; therefor, giving people who ordinarily wouldn't have an opportunity to even smell a mega key the chance to own a piece of one.

 

Why rent someone a single room? Make them rent the whole damn house.

[comicwiz]

CGC classifies trimming as destruction and collectors generally abhor it. How is cutting up a book to sell pieces off separately, that much better?

Because the beginning product is already a turd. Plus, it's not being trimmed to remove a superfluous defect. It's taken apart and sold individually; therefor, giving people who ordinarily wouldn't have an opportunity to even smell a mega key the chance to own a piece of one.

 

Why rent someone a single room? Make them rent the whole damn house.

 

This is sort of the direction where this topic starts to get more interesting for me. If a desirable purple label book is worth 1/4 of the blue label value, one might see a way to achieve a better ratio of return by tearing up the pages and selling them individually.

 

For me, the only way to properly curtail this activity is for the market to provide little if any reward or incentive for the behaviour. Unfortunately, the incentive/reward part has already been notched-up to a worthwhile level by CGC and a few strong sales occurring, even as irregularly as they might happen.

 

It's really hard to determine how a book got to the point it did when it arrives at market, and a person tearing up a restored book probably would have the presence of mind to dole out the pages over many years, rather than bringing the entire book to market in separate pages.

 

Also, if the book got the purple label because it was trimmed, it's also worth considering that I doubt CGC would flag a torn out page as being "restored" although I wonder how they might handle a cover with CT or other restoration if its graded individually. Apart from the destructive sentiment, my feeling is that the market might not really be bothered all that much because the higher percentage of people buying this stuff will probably need it to piece together their own incomplete Frankenbook.

[Hibou]

Sort of a mixed feeling...

 

I understand the concern the OP has but I also can see where DrWatson is coming from and from this statement as well:

 

...It makes even more sense when the book is missing the first wrap(s) and or centerfold. When the mega key is missing those pieces it sells for often much less than the coverless complete book. Further increasing the odds of tearing it apart for profit. Although those pages (the centerfold and first wrap) tend to go for more.

 

 

I'm assuming we're talking about coverless copies to begin with and those missing wraps and centerfolds.

 

I'll never be able to own a copy of a key like Action 1, Detective 27, etc., but I might be able to get a page.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

It sounds like when historic properties get demolished, so the owner can get more money by building a new home on the land before they sell.

When historic properties are threatened.

 

[JesterSB]

As interesting as this topic is, I don't see it becoming a major factor in the long run. There aren't enough copies of Action 1, Tec 27 and Batman 1 lying around for this to make a trend. No other books seem worthwhile to do this to IMO. If you take one of the rarer silver keys for instance (Showcase 4) and try to sell individual pages, I don't think you could even move them. There just isn't enough demand for any other books (or the supply is too high). This may happen to a couple copies each of the mega keys mentioned above, but I think it will end there.

[VintageComics]

CGC classifies trimming as destruction and collectors generally abhor it. How is cutting up a book to sell pieces off separately, that much better?

Because the beginning product is already a turd. Plus, it's not being trimmed to remove a superfluous defect. It's taken apart and sold individually; therefor, giving people who ordinarily wouldn't have an opportunity to even smell a mega key the chance to own a piece of one.

 

Why rent someone a single room? Make them rent the whole damn house.

 

This is sort of the direction where this topic starts to get more interesting for me. If a desirable purple label book is worth 1/4 of the blue label value, one might see a way to achieve a better ratio of return by tearing up the pages and selling them individually.

 

For me, the only way to properly curtail this activity is for the market to provide little if any reward or incentive for the behaviour. Unfortunately, the incentive/reward part has already been notched-up to a worthwhile level by CGC and a few strong sales occurring, even as irregularly as they might happen.

 

It's really hard to determine how a book got to the point it did when it arrives at market, and a person tearing up a restored book probably would have the presence of mind to dole out the pages over many years, rather than bringing the entire book to market in separate pages.

 

Also, if the book got the purple label because it was trimmed, it's also worth considering that I doubt CGC would flag a torn out page as being "restored" although I wonder how they might handle a cover with CT or other restoration if its graded individually. Apart from the destructive sentiment, my feeling is that the market might not really be bothered all that much because the higher percentage of people buying this stuff will probably need it to piece together their own incomplete Frankenbook.

 

At it's core, it's really a lack of education and understanding of the market overall that causes this sort of thing to happen in the marketplace.

 

Much like people not valuing restored books properly and creating a market where people can remove restoration and books increase in value the same logic applies here.

 

If people had understood and valued those pages more highly, people wouldn't have the financial incentive to pull them apart.

 

Like others in this thread, I don't worry about it too much. The coverless copies only make up a small percentage of the over all market and they do allow people to own a piece of history that normally wouldn't be able to.

 

 

[Porcelain Monkey-migration]

Thankfully the financial incentive only seem to be there for incomplete comics to be pulled apart in this manner. It's unlike book collecting, where illustrations are often cut from books and framed as they are worth more in pieces than the complete book, which cannot be displayed in the same way. If it ever becomes profitable to cut apart a complete comic and sell off individual pages separately, watch out!

[techtre2003]

Sorry if this has been answered before but I'm curious: if one were to collect all pages/wraps plus a cover and put them together would that qualify as a complete book?

[VintageComics]

Sorry if this has been answered before but I'm curious: if one were to collect all pages/wraps plus a cover and put them together would that qualify as a complete book?

 

Only if they were all from the same copy. Otherwise, it would probably get a qualified grade with a "married pages" designation.

[Rip]

As interesting as this topic is, I don't see it becoming a major factor in the long run. There aren't enough copies of Action 1, Tec 27 and Batman 1 lying around for this to make a trend. No other books seem worthwhile to do this to IMO. If you take one of the rarer silver keys for instance (Showcase 4) and try to sell individual pages, I don't think you could even move them. There just isn't enough demand for any other books (or the supply is too high). This may happen to a couple copies each of the mega keys mentioned above, but I think it will end there.

 

I disagree. Myself I have found a couple Superman 1's in OO collections that fit this bill perfectly. Not counting the numerous other low grade copies I've seen of these books. I sold one of them on the boards last year.

 

Superman 1 and Batman 1 had a pin-up on the back cover making incomplete copies a common problem on the books. Superman 1 also had a mail away of the Supermen of America Club which makes that page missing in numerous copies.

[Porcelain Monkey-migration]

As interesting as this topic is, I don't see it becoming a major factor in the long run. There aren't enough copies of Action 1, Tec 27 and Batman 1 lying around for this to make a trend. No other books seem worthwhile to do this to IMO. If you take one of the rarer silver keys for instance (Showcase 4) and try to sell individual pages, I don't think you could even move them. There just isn't enough demand for any other books (or the supply is too high). This may happen to a couple copies each of the mega keys mentioned above, but I think it will end there.

 

I disagree. Myself I have found a couple Superman 1's in OO collections that fit this bill perfectly. Not counting the numerous other low grade copies I've seen of these books. I sold one of them on the boards last year.

 

Superman 1 and Batman 1 had a pin-up on the back cover making incomplete copies a common problem on the books. Superman 1 also had a mail away of the Superman of America Club which makes that page missing in numerous copies.

 

Wouldn't the book have to be missing more than a pin up or mail away page to be worth cutting up? I would think a low grade, incomplete copy would sell for more than the individual pages. The book would have to be coverless and missing a few pages. Also, the only pages I can imagine being in demand would have the character on them. I don't know how many pages were in the entire comic, but I am pretty sure the Superman story in AC1 was 13 pages and the Batman story in DC27 was only six.

[Rip]

As interesting as this topic is, I don't see it becoming a major factor in the long run. There aren't enough copies of Action 1, Tec 27 and Batman 1 lying around for this to make a trend. No other books seem worthwhile to do this to IMO. If you take one of the rarer silver keys for instance (Showcase 4) and try to sell individual pages, I don't think you could even move them. There just isn't enough demand for any other books (or the supply is too high). This may happen to a couple copies each of the mega keys mentioned above, but I think it will end there.

 

I disagree. Myself I have found a couple Superman 1's in OO collections that fit this bill perfectly. Not counting the numerous other low grade copies I've seen of these books. I sold one of them on the boards last year.

 

Superman 1 and Batman 1 had a pin-up on the back cover making incomplete copies a common problem on the books. Superman 1 also had a mail away of the Superman of America Club which makes that page missing in numerous copies.

 

Wouldn't the book have to be missing more than a pin up or mail away page to be worth cutting up? I would think a low grade, incomplete copy would sell for more than the individual pages. The book would have to be coverless and missing a few pages. Also, the only pages I can imagine being in demand would have the character on them. I don't know how many pages were in the entire comic, but I am pretty sure the Superman story in AC1 was 13 pages and the Batman story in DC27 was only six.

 

It happens much less with Action 1 and tec 27. In fact I can't think of any examples of tec 27 being torn apart off the top of my head.

 

However again it points to Sups 1 and Batman 1.

Superman 1 is a reprint book of Action 1-4 plus a couple extra pages added.

Its an all Superman book. Batman 1 is also an all Batman book. So again those two become the most common. If you see what the pages are going for I can tell you that they most certainly go for more than what the incomplete coverless copy would get.