Trading Post/PIF/Giving Tree Discussion Thread

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

 

 

Nothing except for the mass FDQ exit.

[MyNameIsLegion]

If I may make a suggestions:

 

 

proposed rule change to specifically exclude donkeys from one's PIF seems pretty confrontational and caustic to the thread. Also- not everyone is going to agree who is a donkey, and it will be off-putting to those who don't agree. It will also be very confusing to lurkers and newbies.

 

However, I recognize the need to discourage and dissuade donkeyish behavior, and I think it can be addressed in more subtle ways that might actually be better for PIFS.

 

Current rules state that you have 50 post counts to wait at least 7 days before claiming another PIF. That's a good baseline, but it's not foolproof, and I think some take PIFs on day 4 to chip away at the 7 days, or to put more pressure on the PIF to improve the offer (waiting till it gets really good and then sniping)

 

HOWEVER: I thin it should be within the PIFers discretion to set additional criteria for accepting the offer. Such as:

 

1. To accept this PIF you must have: not taken a PIF in the last 8 rounds or 30 days.

The rationale here is to discourage serial abusers and PIF addicts and to draw out the lurkers and fly by readers that don't get a chance to participate- you set the number of days or week or recent PIF minimum, X rounds or X days)

 

2. To accept this PIFyou must have: greater than 2000 post counts (or less than 500 post counts, but more than 100) the gives the PIF some leeway to exclude people based on post counts, and can either reward longtime CGC board members, or to encourage new participants that aren't shills)

 

3. Combination of 1 and 2- you can't have accepted a PIF in the last 30 days and have a post count of at least 1000. (just an example)

 

4. Like for Like- or Give and good as you get clause (this might not fly, but just throwing it out there) IF you really put up a nice slab book, you could make it a condition that the next guy offer a nice slab. Or, if you put up original art, the next PIF must be OA too. Trades for Trades, RAW for RAW. etc.

 

All of these suggestions are meant to give the PIF person making the offer more discretion and to put more responsibility on the person taking the PIF to not act like donkeys. Right now, ALL the pressure is on the offer (multiple options, etc) but NONE on the person accepting it, so long as they can get someone to take their donkey dung so it doesn't revert. It only takes 2 colluding donkey to wait out the 7 days, back each other up, and effectively launder a good offer with their .

 

The most important thing in making a rule change should be to widen the number of participants and/or speed up the thread. The velocity of PIFS works just like the velocity of money. The faster it goes, the healthier it is. Just yesterday several PIFs went back to back in the same day. That's much healthier for the thread.

[HarveySwick]

Each list would be a personal list.

 

No one is advocating for a community list.

 

If you don't want to exclude anyone from claiming your offer, then don't exclude anyone.

[Boboset]

Great. Now Jop, the guy who screwed a bunch of people over in a past Holiday raffle, is taking offers in the PIF.

 

[Jeffro.]

[ItsJustRyan]

 

I <3 PIF

[techtre2003]

Each list would be a personal list.

 

No one is advocating for a community list.

 

If you don't want to exclude anyone from claiming your offer, then don't exclude anyone.

 

I think you had a good rule in the Giving Tree thread that the person whose offer was taken has the right to VETO the offer put up by the taker. I'm sure this would cause butthurt too but if you don't want vetoed put up some good stuff

 

Now that may go against the "spirit" of the thread, but let's be honest, this hasn't been a true PIF thread for quite a while. It's evolved into a trade thread and there's nothing wrong with that, it is what it is.

[Scturo]

Seems like everyone likes the idea of the PIF, but want to keep donkeys from taking advantage of another birdies generosity. But it also seems to much for one person to monitor. One way to handle it, is to make a group of experienced participants, who can decide who can participate in the PIF. Unfortunately, us noobs don't know the history with some Donkeys, and probably wouldn't catch one looking to cash in. But if a group of experienced participants, who have gone out of their way to keep the PIF on track, could monitor as a group. I think this will work.

 

This way no one person carries the burdon of keep the PIF n track. They can also elect new members, or replacements. If the group decides that a Boardie has questionable intentions. The can:

 

1. Flat out deny the person a PIF offering.

 

Or

 

2. Put the person on notice that their behavior is in question, and they need to demonstrate that they are not a Donkey.

 

This will make it easier for the PIF to avoid Donkey behavior. From my experience I think a good starting group would be, Tech, Hokie, and Boboset.

 

[1Cool]

Great. Now Jop, the guy who screwed a bunch of people over in a past Holiday raffle, is taking offers in the PIF.

 

 

Where have you been for 6 months. Really appreciate your honest viewpoint.

[bb8]

 

I <3 PIF

 

It's the best, isn't it?

[vaillant]

Each list would be a personal list.

 

No one is advocating for a community list.

 

If you don't want to exclude anyone from claiming your offer, then don't exclude anyone.

 

Yes, I think that if this remains at discretion of the offerer, the danger of potential "butthurt" is drastically reduced.

I know perfectly how to say "no" and how to encourage for better offers, so I am OK with the idea. But instead of a list, I’d probably just wait to see who picks the offer and how he behaved recently.

 

And I will never get tired to repeat (in this case to techtre2003) that in fact the PIF premises were a lot closer to a trade thread than what the perception about it, and the idea to build it upon, became later on.

I have no problem with either conception, but people should be fair and if we agree on the current conception of the thread, let’s just say they can participate if they put more effort in producing interesting follow-ups and must be told otherwise. :shrug:

[vaillant]

 

I am waiting for your offer…

[CAHokie]

PIF, where I came for the free comics but stayed for the drama!

 

On a serious note though, some of you have some good ideas. Please understand though, that no matter what you guys decide as a group may be more of accepted practices and not an actual rule. Enacting rule changes are not easy or automatic. We spent a lot of time brainstorming and playing devils advocate, mixed with a little arguing to get where we are now. Even then, the rule changes implemented were not exactly what was proposed.

[vaillant]

PIF, where I came for the free comics but stayed for the drama!

 

On a serious note though, some of you have some good ideas. Please understand though, that no matter what you guys decide as a group may be more of accepted practices and not an actual rule. Enacting rule changes are not easy or automatic. We spent a lot of time brainstorming and playing devils advocate, mixed with a little arguing to get where we are now. Even then, the rule changes implemented were not exactly what was proposed.

 

That’s what I implicitly meant: if saying "no" is at discretion of the current offerer, this would probably solve itself with a lot less drama.

 

Actually the main reason for which I love PIF is to get comics I would not otherwise buy, regardless of value – one should just try to be fair and everything will improve, even if "quarrels" are not unavoidable, but hey I like it, and these things are helpful.

[techvoodoo]

On the topic of rule changes here's a good rule change, imo. Lets do away with the whole "no discussing value" rule. The majority of past arguments have come from the fact that the perceived value certain people put forth with their offer is DRASTICALLY out of line with the perceived value of what they took.

 

I am NOT saying someone has to give a follow up offer of equal or greater value to what they have taken. I'm saying lets get rid of the that stupid rule instead of dancing around it, because it's been the root of several blow ups in the past, and that's caused of more than a few people leaving the thread.

 

It will at least open the door to allow the discussion of value instead of pretending it's not on everyone's mind when someone takes a $100 slab and offers up a $10 TPB in return.

 

 

[techvoodoo]

Great. Now Jop, the guy who screwed a bunch of people over in a past Holiday raffle, is taking offers in the PIF.

 

 

 

Is this true? That's just great. I REALLY hope Doc vetoes him from claiming that awesome SS Sketch Slab.

[HarveySwick]

The Personal List

 

I'm saying an offeror should include a disclaimer.

 

But, if you offer up something, you should have every right to say "no" to anyone claiming the stuff YOU are offering up for free. That just seems so obvious, it's almost crazy that we have to argue for it.

 

That right to say "no" should be for any reason. Whether you don't like the past actions of a person claiming your offer or if you don't like their follow up offer. Maybe you even personally feel the person claiming the item has claimed too many things recently or stalled the thread repeatedly. Everyone knows that they must have their own offer claimed to actually receive the offer that they claimed. If someone abused the "right to say no" rule, they're not really going to get much and in the future, people might reject their claim of an offer.

 

Honesty sometimes unfortunately results in butthurt. That's life. But this personal list or right to reject a claim of a taking of an offer. There's nothing more to it than:

 

You offer up an item of yours FREE for claiming - you should have some say, if you choose, to who it goes to.

[HarveySwick]

But instead of a list, I’d probably just wait to see who picks the offer and how he behaved recently.

 

My God! We agree on something!!

[seanfingh]

 

I am waiting for your offer…

 

I thought you were anti-sarcasm.

 

But to address your point, there are a lot of people who simply will not participate in activities where you are forced to view and deal with others' poor behavior. That is why I, personally, will not participate in any of the holiday raffles, gift exchanges etc., and why I had a bad attitude about how P-I-F was going to turn out.

 

It is far more gratifying to do nice things behind the scenes for people who either need help, or that you genuinely like and care about, than to deal with a randomly generated number (person) who may or may not be a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed.

[spidrvacc]

On the topic of rule changes here's a good rule change, imo. Lets do away with the whole "no discussing value" rule. The majority of past arguments have come from the fact that the perceived value certain people put forth with their offer is DRASTICALLY out of line with the perceived value of what they took.

 

I am NOT saying someone has to give a follow up offer of equal or greater value to what they have taken. I'm saying lets get rid of the that stupid rule instead of dancing around it, because it's been the root of several blow ups in the past, and that's caused of more than a few people leaving the thread.

 

It will at least open the door to allow the discussion of value instead of pretending it's not on everyone's mind when someone takes a $100 slab and offers up a $10 TPB in return.

 

 

This is exactly what I was saying days ago. Seems thats the root of alot of issues. Value of what you get compared to what you offer. If you take a $75 item and offer up a $9.99 TB and a bunch of $1 bin comics thats where the issues are lying. And then some have suspected that some people are getting others to take there PIF so they can get the original book if no one wants there $1 bin PIF. Now as I also mentioned during the weekend, the original intent of this thread was not that. The very first item was a OA book not worth a alot but expectations as soon as the first person say put up a HULK 180 and now we are at where if you take a Hulk 180 you better come close to the value in your PIF and not put up a common book.