Trading Post/PIF/Giving Tree Discussion Thread

[Boboset]

Out of curiosity, how many times have you participated in the PIF thread? I've seen plenty of quality offers stay on the table.

 

1) I read the PIF thread, but I don't participate due to the rampant junk donkeys.

 

2) Really? Do you have links to these "quality offers" that stayed unclaimed for 3 days?

 

I'm fine with people who don't participate discussing the PIF thread and concept, particularly here, in a thread designed specifically for that. But I don't understand why you and people like MagnusX read the PIF thread and post in it specifically just to call out people publicly and trash their offerings. I honestly just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish other than to derail the thread. It comes across to me like Statler and Waldorf dumping on people for your own amusement.

 

For 20 months, the PIF has managed to continue moving forward. Which means that somehow, despite all these "junk" offerings, someone has eventually claimed the books every time. I personally find the constant potshots being fired by outside observers to be much more destructive to the thread than anything being offered up or claimed by the people actually interested in participating in it. Why not just let the people who want to enjoy PIF enjoy it unmolested?

 

 

And you fall into this group that I identified in my initial post which brought the recent unfairness to light here.

 

 

To the people who think the thread has been running great these last few days? Yes it has been and it's because of the controversy, it happens every single time this is brought up. I fully expect a defense launched my way from mostly those who are known to game that system in the past or haven't been here long enough to see the vicious cycle repeat perpetually. I'd like to move past that and solve this problem.

 

It's painfully obvious that there is a problem with the PIF that is not being fixed because the majority of our community, who should and would participate, think the thread is a joke. The thread started off very well and still holds great potential. How can you not see that?

 

 

 

 

[Crimebuster]

I personally find the constant potshots being fired by outside observers to be much more destructive to the thread than anything being offered up or claimed by the people actually interested in participating in it. Why not just let the people who want to enjoy PIF enjoy it unmolested?

 

So you totally ignore the longtime PIF participants who have a problem with the current climate and bunch everyone into "non-participants" and "observers"?

 

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread. And much of the "current climate" seems to have been defined by people observing rather than participating.

 

It's true that there have been a couple of people who have gamed the system intentionally. Those people have pretty much been outed and thrown out of the thread a long time ago. There are also a number of other people who you apparently believe are also gaming the system intentionally, but whom others, including myself, are giving the benefit of the doubt.

 

You might be right. I don't know. Though I have been participating in the thread since fairly early on and have read the whole thread, I've certainly never studied anybody's claiming habits or offering habits. Frankly, it never occurred to me to do so. If those people can be identified - which should be possible if such patterns exist, as you and others have stated - then they should be exposed and those people should be barred from participating in the future.

 

However, what's happening here seems to be a presumption on your part - and the part of some others - that anyone who doesn't put up a "good" offer is some kind of thief trying to rip off the boards. I simply don't think this is true and I also don't think this attitude is fair, especially to new participants.

 

About the only trend I have noticed over the course of PIF is that most people's first offering tends to be a bit soft. I don't think this is because people are ripping us off, it's because they just don't have the pulse of the room yet. It's hard to guess what a bunch of random strangers are going to be interested in, especially when people have such diverse interests and value systems for books. I know my own first offering was lame, but at the time, I thought it was cool. And I still offer up stuff occasionally that I am sure people are going to love, only to see it sit there.

 

Eventually I think most new people will learn the audience and start offering up "better" stuff as a result. But they won't learn if people just scream at them that their offerings suck and that they are shills and thieves. Jumping on newbs as soon as they post something is counter-productive. And I personally also find it both rude and counter to the spirit of the thread itself.

[A.Romeo]

Once you start talking about commensurate values, the whole thing simply becomes a trading post, and the "spirit" of the thing is diminished. But if you don't talk about commensurate value to some extent, douchenozzles will take advantage.

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

 

You still need to have limits though, and I think a "1 claim per month" and "6 months on the board" would go a long way to eliminating this behavior, as well as stopping the obvious shilling going on with new IDs.

 

This kind of commentary, from a known junk donkey, is not in line with PIF:

 

Cant wait till I can grab another offer

 

 

I think 1 claim per month is too long but the 7 days/24 hours might not be right either, that does create a lot of vultures (guilty). Maybe 14 days/3 days.

 

I do think there needs to be a larger wall in place than the current rule that if you have 50 posts you can jump in. 6 months sounds fine, 1 year seems fine too for that matter.

 

How about 2 claims in a calendar month?

[joe_collector]

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread.

 

I'm just the opposite, as the majority of the thread supporters are known to game the PIF thread, mining for gold and then giving away gravel by the ton.

 

And those people want to keep their supply flowing, so are inherently biased against any criticism or change.

[techvoodoo]

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread.

 

I'm just the opposite, as the majority of the thread supporters are known to game the PIF thread, mining for gold and then giving away gravel by the ton.

 

And those people want to keep their supply flowing, so are inherently biased against any criticism or change.

 

 

I've been participating in the PIF thread extensively for a good while and I wouldn't agree that the majority of current thread participants are bad apples at all. Maybe I'm one of them and don't realize it?

[Crimebuster]

Out of curiosity, how many times have you participated in the PIF thread? I've seen plenty of quality offers stay on the table.

 

1) I read the PIF thread, but I don't participate due to the rampant junk donkeys.

 

2) Really? Do you have links to these "quality offers" that stayed unclaimed for 3 days?

 

I'm fine with people who don't participate discussing the PIF thread and concept, particularly here, in a thread designed specifically for that. But I don't understand why you and people like MagnusX read the PIF thread and post in it specifically just to call out people publicly and trash their offerings. I honestly just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish other than to derail the thread. It comes across to me like Statler and Waldorf dumping on people for your own amusement.

 

For 20 months, the PIF has managed to continue moving forward. Which means that somehow, despite all these "junk" offerings, someone has eventually claimed the books every time. I personally find the constant potshots being fired by outside observers to be much more destructive to the thread than anything being offered up or claimed by the people actually interested in participating in it. Why not just let the people who want to enjoy PIF enjoy it unmolested?

 

 

And you fall into this group that I identified in my initial post which brought the recent unfairness to light here.

 

 

To the people who think the thread has been running great these last few days? Yes it has been and it's because of the controversy, it happens every single time this is brought up. I fully expect a defense launched my way from mostly those who are known to game that system in the past or haven't been here long enough to see the vicious cycle repeat perpetually. I'd like to move past that and solve this problem.

 

It's painfully obvious that there is a problem with the PIF that is not being fixed because the majority of our community, who should and would participate, think the thread is a joke. The thread started off very well and still holds great potential. How can you not see that?

 

I don't appreciate being called a thief and a liar any more now than I did when you first attacked me in the PIF thread.

 

You've got some damn nerve, dude. You really do.

[Boboset]

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread.

 

I'm just the opposite, as the majority of the thread supporters are known to game the PIF thread, mining for gold and then giving away gravel by the ton.

 

And those people want to keep their supply flowing, so are inherently biased against any criticism or change.

 

 

I've been participating in the PIF thread extensively for a good while and I wouldn't agree that the majority of current thread participants are bad apples at all. Maybe I'm one of them and don't realize it?

You're probably the best contributor to the PIF.

[techvoodoo]

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread.

 

I'm just the opposite, as the majority of the thread supporters are known to game the PIF thread, mining for gold and then giving away gravel by the ton.

 

And those people want to keep their supply flowing, so are inherently biased against any criticism or change.

 

 

I've been participating in the PIF thread extensively for a good while and I wouldn't agree that the majority of current thread participants are bad apples at all. Maybe I'm one of them and don't realize it?

You're probably the best contributor to the PIF.

 

Thanks for the sentiment, but lots of offers have been made that top anything I've ever given.

[comix4fun]

I personally find the constant potshots being fired by outside observers to be much more destructive to the thread than anything being offered up or claimed by the people actually interested in participating in it. Why not just let the people who want to enjoy PIF enjoy it unmolested?

 

So you totally ignore the longtime PIF participants who have a problem with the current climate and bunch everyone into "non-participants" and "observers"?

 

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread. And much of the "current climate" seems to have been defined by people observing rather than participating.

 

 

It may make sense to look a little closer as the people not participating may not be participating because of the issues that have arisen in the "current climate".

 

I've tried on several occasions to participate (over the last year), watching, waiting and trying to have something prepared to offer up. Those few people you mention gaming the system are what have kept me out. I

 

It's not for lack of desire to participate ( I have, literally, tons of stuff that I could offer ) that I refrain and I don't believe I am alone.

 

Dismissing the complaints of people not actively participating, assuming they are sour grapes, may be dismissing valid and valuable criticism of something you may not be fully aware of at this time.

[Boboset]

Out of curiosity, how many times have you participated in the PIF thread? I've seen plenty of quality offers stay on the table.

 

1) I read the PIF thread, but I don't participate due to the rampant junk donkeys.

 

2) Really? Do you have links to these "quality offers" that stayed unclaimed for 3 days?

 

I'm fine with people who don't participate discussing the PIF thread and concept, particularly here, in a thread designed specifically for that. But I don't understand why you and people like MagnusX read the PIF thread and post in it specifically just to call out people publicly and trash their offerings. I honestly just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish other than to derail the thread. It comes across to me like Statler and Waldorf dumping on people for your own amusement.

 

For 20 months, the PIF has managed to continue moving forward. Which means that somehow, despite all these "junk" offerings, someone has eventually claimed the books every time. I personally find the constant potshots being fired by outside observers to be much more destructive to the thread than anything being offered up or claimed by the people actually interested in participating in it. Why not just let the people who want to enjoy PIF enjoy it unmolested?

 

 

And you fall into this group that I identified in my initial post which brought the recent unfairness to light here.

 

 

To the people who think the thread has been running great these last few days? Yes it has been and it's because of the controversy, it happens every single time this is brought up. I fully expect a defense launched my way from mostly those who are known to game that system in the past or haven't been here long enough to see the vicious cycle repeat perpetually. I'd like to move past that and solve this problem.

 

It's painfully obvious that there is a problem with the PIF that is not being fixed because the majority of our community, who should and would participate, think the thread is a joke. The thread started off very well and still holds great potential. How can you not see that?

 

I don't appreciate being called a thief and a liar any more now than I did when you first attacked me in the PIF thread.

 

You've got some damn nerve, dude. You really do.

Attacked you?

 

I identified you as someone who would launch a defense against rule changes due to a history of offering far less than what you take. When we had our dust up, the complete Sandman TPB collection met with mostly unwanted retreads, I received numerous unsolicited PMs from members who similarly felt taken advantage of.

 

You just want the thread left alone with no improvements. That seems illogical to me when the majority of the board wants change.

[joe_collector]

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread.

 

I'm just the opposite, as the majority of the thread supporters are known to game the PIF thread, mining for gold and then giving away gravel by the ton.

 

And those people want to keep their supply flowing, so are inherently biased against any criticism or change.

 

I've been participating in the PIF thread extensively for a good while and I wouldn't agree that the majority of current thread participants are bad apples at all. Maybe I'm one of them and don't realize it?

 

I am specifically relating this comment to those people vehemently opposed to any type of PIF thread criticism.

[Boboset]

What do you guys think is the best option here?

 

Personally, I like the 3 day rule and a sign up date requirement (3 to maybe 6 months).

 

[chrisco37]

What do you guys think is the best option here?

 

Personally, I like the 3 day rule and a sign up date requirement (3 to maybe 6 months).

 

As someone else suggested, people should quit offering up junk and/or quarter-dollar bin garbage. Everyone probably has enough of that stuff already.

 

A detached cover copper X-men book. Seriously? The postage to send it is worth more than the book.

[thirdgreenham]

I agree with this slamming of my offerings. This is the only stuff I got and while it may be meaningless to a bunch of people on here, most of this is stuff I have had for a while and I care more about the idea of "paying it forward" regardless of what any of you think. You don't like what is being offered, then shut up and keep it to yourself. Let the rest of us have fun and enjoy the thread.

 

Let's add to this to keep people from complaining about people being nice…

 

Option 4

 

 

:: (thumbs u

 

And anyone who complained, do not bother saying

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

a 7.0 Avengers Annual 10?

 

 

[Boboset]

What do you guys think is the best option here?

 

Personally, I like the 3 day rule and a sign up date requirement (3 to maybe 6 months).

 

As someone else suggested, people should quit offering up junk and/or quarter-dollar bin garbage. Everyone probably has enough of that stuff already.

 

A detached cover copper X-men book. Seriously? The postage to send it is worth more than the book.

I agree completely, but as evidenced by the history of the PIF, the belief that common sense will prevail is never enough. That's why so many of us support simple rule modifications to ensure that this doesn't need to be continually addressed every time it happens. And it will happen again and again.

[Crimebuster]

I think a 6 month requirement to participate is more than reasonable.

 

 

[CAHokie]

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread.

 

I'm just the opposite, as the majority of the thread supporters are known to game the PIF thread, mining for gold and then giving away gravel by the ton.

 

And those people want to keep their supply flowing, so are inherently biased against any criticism or change.

 

 

I've been participating in the PIF thread extensively for a good while and I wouldn't agree that the majority of current thread participants are bad apples at all. Maybe I'm one of them and don't realize it?

 

You are a great PIF participant. Now you guys have me wondering if I suck!

[Boboset]

No. I simply take complaints from people participating in the thread more seriously than I do complaints from people not participating in the thread.

 

I'm just the opposite, as the majority of the thread supporters are known to game the PIF thread, mining for gold and then giving away gravel by the ton.

 

And those people want to keep their supply flowing, so are inherently biased against any criticism or change.

 

 

I've been participating in the PIF thread extensively for a good while and I wouldn't agree that the majority of current thread participants are bad apples at all. Maybe I'm one of them and don't realize it?

 

You are a great PIF participant. Now you guys have me wondering if I suck!

That's another unfortunate side effect of the current climate where we have to call out unfair offers. It leaves boardies, like you, wondering if they suck. The 3 day rule fixes that when on the rare occasion someone can't offer something worthwhile, the offer they claimed is back on the table.

 

You won't have to wonder about your offers, you'll simply just know that they weren't adequate after the 3 days expires.

[namisgr]

What the he(hockey sticks) is PIF?

[djpinkpanther67]

What the he(hockey sticks) is PIF?

Pay It Forward