The Walking Dead #1 vs. New Mutants 98

[Mark 1]

[retrothecollector]

[ItsJustRyan]

[Old Fashion PB and J]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Deadpool is the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine?

 

That is sad.

You are just mean

[ItsJustRyan]

Just read the thread. All

 

A few thoughts from me:

 

(1) TWD will always be more scarce that NM98

(2) Not saying that as a fanboy, just a fact

(3) With the print runs and demand for TWD #1, I'd say the demand will be there for the next several years

(4) Deadpool has a bigger appeal, but he's been doing this longer to a broader audience.

(5) I want a TMNT #1 too

 

If I had to rank these in priority of purchase it would be (1) TMNT#1, (2) TWD#1, and (3) NM#98. The former is harder to get than the latter in grade.

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Comicopolis]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Deadpool is the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine?

 

That is sad.

You are just mean

 

Probably.

 

My experience of reading Deadpool stories is nowhere near as great as yours but what I have read in the last few years has been painful.

[retrothecollector]

Just read the thread. All

 

A few thoughts from me:

 

(1) TWD will always be more scarce that NM98

(2) Not saying that as a fanboy, just a fact

(3) With the print runs and demand for TWD #1, I'd say the demand will be there for the next several years

(4) Deadpool has a bigger appeal, but he's been doing this longer to a broader audience.

(5) I want a TMNT #1 too

 

If I had to rank these in priority of purchase it would be (1) TMNT#1, (2) TWD#1, and (3) NM#98. The former is harder to get than the latter in grade.

this

[newshane]

Just read the thread. All

 

A few thoughts from me:

 

(1) TWD will always be more scarce that NM98

(2) Not saying that as a fanboy, just a fact

(3) With the print runs and demand for TWD #1, I'd say the demand will be there for the next several years

(4) Deadpool has a bigger appeal, but he's been doing this longer to a broader audience.

(5) I want a TMNT #1 too

 

If I had to rank these in priority of purchase it would be (1) TMNT#1, (2) TWD#1, and (3) NM#98. The former is harder to get than the latter in grade.

 

+1 except for #4. I think TWD is more popular than Deadpool. I bet half the people on the street don't even know who Deadpool is.

 

[NewWorldOrder]

NM 98 vs. Walking Dead?

 

I pick the Walking Dead. Why?

 

There are a billion NM98s out there...not nearly as many Walking Deads.

 

 

Billion more Deadpool fans though.

 

ASM 129, Hulk 181, and ASM 300 are common as dirt, but no dealer can keep them in stock.

 

I had 3 ASM #300 in CGC 9.8 sold all 3 on the boards at almost full asking price which never happens.

 

WD #1 just sat and sat and sat

[newshane]

NM 98 vs. Walking Dead?

 

I pick the Walking Dead. Why?

 

There are a billion NM98s out there...not nearly as many Walking Deads.

 

 

Billion more Deadpool fans though.

 

 

I'm just really not sure that's true at all.

[NewWorldOrder]

Just read the thread. All

 

A few thoughts from me:

 

(1) TWD will always be more scarce that NM98

(2) Not saying that as a fanboy, just a fact

(3) With the print runs and demand for TWD #1, I'd say the demand will be there for the next several years

(4) Deadpool has a bigger appeal, but he's been doing this longer to a broader audience.

(5) I want a TMNT #1 too

 

If I had to rank these in priority of purchase it would be (1) TMNT#1, (2) TWD#1, and (3) NM#98. The former is harder to get than the latter in grade.

 

+1 except for #4. I think TWD is more popular than Deadpool. I bet half the people on the street don't even know who Deadpool is.

 

A big HUH?

 

Not even close of course Deadpool is more well known.

[Ryan.]

No one outside of the comic world knows who Deadpool is.

[Comicopolis]

NM 98 vs. Walking Dead?

 

I pick the Walking Dead. Why?

 

There are a billion NM98s out there...not nearly as many Walking Deads.

 

 

Billion more Deadpool fans though.

 

 

I'm just really not sure that's true at all.

 

He might be slightly off with his figures.

[Comicopolis]

No one outside of the comic world knows who Deadpool is.

 

This.

[Prince Namor]

Come on, folks, this is 2013. We don't need to make stuff up out of thin air anymore. We have Google and the internet; this information is at the tips of our fingers.

 

Facts:

 

Statement of Ownership, New Mutants #99.

 

Filing Date: Oct 1, 1990.

 

So the single issue nearest to filing date published for purposes of item #10A, Net Press Run, since #99 was printed and published in Jan of 1991, would be either #95 or #96...probably #95...well after Liefeld and Cable became "hot."

 

Average number of copies printed for the preceding period was 289,387, and the actual press run of the single issue nearest to filing date for which this information was known (#95) was 318,102.

 

Next, we have total paid circulation, item #10C, with the following numbers: avg number of copies sold was 182,499, while the single issue nearest to filing date for which this information was known was 194,300. This is the ACTUAL NUMBER OF COPIES SOLD.

 

Now...there is some debate as to whether or not the issue "nearest to filing date" for net press run and the issue "nearest to filing date" for paid circulation is THE SAME ISSUE. If they are not, those numbers would be represented by issues #95 and probably #93, respectively. If they are, obviously they didn't have the paid circulation numbers until approximately two months after the issue first went on sale, so in this case, it would be #93.

 

However...it must be pointed out that in the PREVIOUS statement of ownership, published in issue #89, the numbers were HIGHER, with average print run 313,910; average paid circulation 210,335, so even with blips, the average was still about 10% LESS during the first 8-10 months of Liefeld's tenure than the previous year. New Mutants, sadly, was a declining title, which is the most often cited reason as to why it was given to Liefeld in the first place.

 

It would make sense, either way, as a Wolverine appearance was still a force to be reckoned with, and numbers for #93 OR #95 were up substantially from previous issues, which explains the higher numbers. #95, it must be noted, was part of the first round of X-Tinction Agenda, a crossover so popular, it created the very first demand-based second printings in X-Men history. X-Men #270, New Mutants #95, and X-Factor #60 all sold out at the distribution level, prompting second printings of all three issues almost immediately, a phenomenon that was totally unknown to Marvel before 1990.

 

If we look at Capital City order numbers, which are known, the order numbers for New Mutants #98 was 55,200. According to established sources, Capital City accounted for about 25-30% of all comics sales at that point, with Diamond accounting for another 40-45% and the newsstand distribution system accounting for the remaining 25-35%. It is important to remember that Net Press Run can be deceiving, as the Direct Market bought comics at a steeper discount that could NOT be returned, while newsstands were returnable. So, while sales at the newsstand accounted for 25-35% of the market, the print run for the newsstand accounted for about 50% of the total print run, with about 70% of the newsstand run ending up as returns (destroyed.) Quite astonishing numbers, but fairly standard at the time. Obviously, the bulk of actual sales at this point was to the Direct Market. (70%+)

 

It is also important to keep in mind that AFTER X-Tinction Agenda was over, orders naturally sank back down. Deadpool as a character did not ignite the world on fire. He would not reappear in the pages of any comic for another 6 months, in the pages of X-Force #1, and then not in a story until issue #2. Unlike both Cable and Gambit, who were immensely popular at or relatively near the time of their first appearances, Deadpool would take 3 years...until his first mini by new fav Joe Maduriera...to "break out", and then it was only a temporary blip. it would be another nearly 15 years before the character finally gained traction with the collecting community as anything beyond a $5 book.

 

With the 52,500 Cap City number, that puts an actual sales total of *approximately* 175,000-210,000 copies of New Mutants #98 sold, on a print run of about 300,000 (again, this is generous, as the print run for #93 or #95...probably #95...the first part of X-Tinction Agenda...was 318,000 copies, and while the print run would go up for #96 and #97, they would have sunk back down again for #98.)

 

What does all of that mean? Practically speaking, an absolute print run of between 250,000-350,000 TOPS, against actual sales of 175,000-225,000, with the rest BEING DESTROYED (or, at least, mangled beyond collectability.)

 

Remember...print runs in the days of the newsstand are fairly meaningless as indicators of existing copies when dealing with books that were distributed to the newsstand (as nearly every single Marvel book was and is even to this day.) It wasn't until the newsstand pretty much died in the mid-90's that print runs came near to being absolute numbers in terms of existing copies, meaning that there was NEVER a print run of "500,000 or more" of this book, and actual surviving copies in collectable condition is somewhere around 200,000 in the best case scenario.

 

This book was printed, published, and placed on sale in December of 1990. It would be another nearly 2 years before print runs would increase drastically for nearly all mainstream comics. Yes, you had the anomalous Spiderman #1, but that was all Todd McFarlane. Prior to that, the modern record holder was Legends of the Dark Knight, with 800,000 copies printed. Yes, you read that correctly. The modern RECORD HOLDER (post 1969) for most copies printed was Legends of the Dark Knight #1 at about 800,000. Spiderman came along and topped it at ~1.75 million, but the real craziness didn't even start until 1991's X-Men, then 1992's Spawn #1 and Superman #75...and THEN the lunacy that was 1993 came about.

 

December of 1990...? Not so much.

 

So...can we please put to rest the claims that New Mutants #98 has hundreds and hundreds of thousands of copies, all in pristine condition, sitting around waiting to be subbed...? Tens of thousands, yes. Hundreds....? No.

 

See. This is why some of us miss you chiming in.

[NewWorldOrder]

No one outside of the comic world knows who Deadpool is.

 

Comic book world.

 

Ask the video game world who Deadpool is.

 

They all raise their hand.

 

Why do you think Bane, Deathstroke, Doomsday, and Nightwing first appearances have skyrocketed lately.

 

Its all about little Jimmy knowing by any means necessary who these characters are.

[Prince Namor]

If Deadpool's first appearance had been in the Amazing Spider-man this'd be no contest.

[VintageComics]

If Deadpool's first appearance had been in the Amazing Spider-man this'd be no contest.

 

I agree.

 

I'm not a big collector of the Copper Age - by 1991 I was getting out of comics, so it's safe to say that I'm not a Deadpool fan (I didn't even know who he was when he appeared in that last Wolverine movie, quite honestly) but just from attending shows today, I'm shocked at the number of Deadpool costumes that appear at cons.

 

I also took a quick look at GPA and NM 98 has been steadily rising in price for ALL grades over the last few years.

 

There's a lot of Deadpool fans out there.

[Ryan.]

No one outside of the comic world knows who Deadpool is.

 

Comic book world.

 

Ask the video game world who Deadpool is.

 

They all raise their hand.

 

Why do you think Bane, Deathstroke, Doomsday, and Nightwing first appearances have skyrocketed lately.

 

Its all about little Jimmy knowing by any means necessary who these characters are.

 

Because comic book collectors buy them.

 

The average person has no idea what a Deadpool is but they have at least heard of The Walking Dead TV show. I'm not really sure how debatable this is.