Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice movie thread for your reading pleasure 2 2

[jaybuck43]

I think this site has too much emphasis on pics, trailers, tweets, reviews and box office numbers

 

Too many opinions are formed prior to a release, lines are drawn in the sand, then when anything close to affirmation happens after release, a big "I told you so" post is made

 

I get if you don't like a trailer, a director or an actor, the plot etc and don't plan to see a movie, but to make reviews as your basis on viewing a movie is foolish IMHO

 

I think we could all name at least 10 movies that weren't loved by movies that we've enjoyed immensely

 

Think Different

 

Hector, here is the issue I have. This isn't just a cool comic book movie, this is the cornerstone piece for WB's Universe. No-one asked them to do this, they could have just made a sequel to MoS and the expectations would have been much lower. WB comes out and announces an aggressive 10 movie, 5 year plan. This is the lynchpin, there to set expectations. Compare it not to Marvel (who never announced a plan, but rather their way for handling their movies became the "Marvel Method: Movie Edition" but rather to Disney Star Wars. Disney comes out and says "We are making 6 Star Wars related films in the next 8 years, and JJ Abrams is directing the first one" How much pressure was there on TFA? A lot. It could have just been a good movie that made $1 billion and the fans would have liked it, BUT when you put that kind of pressure on a film a billion is a failure because the expectations were so much higher, and calls the rest of the plans into question.

 

Zach Snyder is not just the director of BvS, but he is supposed to be the Kevin Feige of the DCU. If he can't pull off BvS, then what confidence should we have in the other (more difficult) films (Aquaman, I'm looking at you). Time Warner is investing Billions into DCU (assuming a minimum $100 million budget for each of the 10 films, plus marketing budgets) Time Warner is not Disney, they can't afford to lose money (TW has a market cap of 1/3rd of Disney, with a annual profit of only about 3 billion, Disney's annual profit is almost 10 times that (between 22 and 24 billion)

 

 

[Doc McCoy]

! From some of the reviews, maybe Snyder actually made that sequel to Suckerpunch that he always wanted, but fooled the studio into thinking it actually had something to do with Batman and Superman.

 

This is one of my favorites so far: "A near-total drag, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice plays like a loose, unofficial quarter-billion-dollar remake of The Odd Couple, in which Oscar and Felix are literally trying to kill each other."

[fantastic_four]

Zach Snyder is not just the director of BvS, but he is supposed to be the Kevin Feige of the DCU.

 

He's now established he isn't. They're going to need to find one.

 

It's hard to see how the plug doesn't yet again get pulled on the Justice League movie. Makes you wonder now whether pulling George Miller off of it was such a good idea given how well he did with Mad Max.

[JayT]

 

Time Warner is not Disney, they can't afford to lose money (TW has a market cap of 1/3rd of Disney, with a annual profit of only about 3 billion, Disney's annual profit is almost 10 times that (between 22 and 24 billion)

 

 

Big sigh of relief for them that Rowling came at them with new material. They definitely slotted their DC catalog as something to nurture to replace that incredible cash flow represented by Harry Potter.

[Doc McCoy]

like i said is starting to look like a is getting a mix reviews but at the end of the day i don't care what the reviews say. MOS had mix reviews but i love it and seen it over 15 times which it got better and better with each watch for me. that's why the same is going to be said about BvS 1st watch is going to be too much to follow by the 2nd watch a lot of the smaller things get to be seen and understood.

 

+ 1

 

I love the Man of Steel movie, even with a few of its flaws. So I am still excited to see this movie Friday night.

I loved Man of Steel as well. I wonder what it is that is turning off some of the critics about this movie?

 

I hope it isn`t Ben Affleck as Batman. To me the Nolan Trilogy was a masterpiece. The pinnacle of superhero movies. Bale was great. Anybody else playing Batman is going to be looked at differently.

it looks like everbody like batman

If not that than what is causing the mediocre reviews?

 

It would seem that the consensus among critics has been that it's Snyder and his lack of cohesive story telling. Trying to cram too much into too little time. Jump cuts leading to huge plot holes. And is there anyone out there that doesn't know what happened to Thomas and Martha Wayne?

[Bosco685]

Zach Snyder is not just the director of BvS, but he is supposed to be the Kevin Feige of the DCU.

 

He's now established he isn't. They're going to need to find one.

 

It's hard to see how the plug doesn't yet again get pulled on the Justice League movie. Makes you wonder now whether pulling George Miller off of it was such a good idea given how well he did with Mad Max.

 

I know people get excited to dump on a movie just as quick as they are to cheer it on. But probably better we keep the 'facts' more factual.

 

DC & Marvel movie road ahead - 2016 to 2021

 

Does the DC Cinematic Universe Have a Kevin Feige?

 

Speaking with THR, Snyder and his wife/producer partner Deborah championed DC’s filmmaker-driven approach but, later in the interview, also suggested the DCEU wasn’t without Feige-like creative oversight (albeit in the form of a “brain trust”):

 

Who else is part of the DC brain trust?

 

Zack Snyder: "Chuck [Roven], our partner."

 

Deborah Snyder: "Richard Suckle is producing some of these. On our end, Wesley Coller is an executive producer who works on all the things that we work on. He’s part of our inner family. Geoff Johns is just super valuable, and I think Zack and Geoff really have worked out a lot of the creative ideas as to where the characters are going. Geoff [ensures] we’re doing things that are true to the canon because he knows everything about these characters. And Jon Berg is our executive on all the films, and then obviously Greg [silverman] was our executive when we first came to Warner Bros., so we’ve always worked with Greg."

 

Based on Snyder’s comments, and previously announced partnerships, here’s a quick breakdown of the aforementioned DCEU brain trust:

• Charles Roven – Producer (Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Justice League Part One, The Flash, Aquaman, and Justice League Part Two)
  
• Richard Suckle – Producer (Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman)
  
• Wesley Coller – Producer (with the Snyders) at Cruel and Unusual Films
  
• Geoff Johns – Chief Creative Officer at DC Comics (and DCEU Producer as well as Creative Consultant)
  
• Jon Berg – Oversees DCEU live-action films as Executive Vice President of Development at Warner Bros.
  
• Greg Silverman – President of Creative Development and Worldwide Production at Warner Bros.

[Comicopolis]

! From some of the reviews, maybe Snyder actually made that sequel to Suckerpunch that he always wanted, but fooled the studio into thinking it actually had something to do with Batman and Superman.

 

This is one of my favorites so far: "A near-total drag, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice plays like a loose, unofficial quarter-billion-dollar remake of The Odd Couple, in which Oscar and Felix are literally trying to kill each other."

 

That sounds excellent.

[chrisco37]

 

I'm going to be honest, most of what seems to be the shared opinions thus far sounds just like a typical Zack Snyder movie - spectacle, at times visually interesting, but otherwise lacking. That's just who he is, or has been. He's not a character/storyteller that later got big budgets to make them come to to life (Whedon), he's a spectacle director.

 

It's felt like DC has been looking for a leader in their cinematic DCU, they offered it to Nolan who declined, and I'm just not sure Snyder was the guy I'd have come back too especially with Justice League.

 

I agree. Some people talk about how great a job he did with 300 and Watchmen. They were good and pretty true to the books. Those are both some of the most "cinematic" comic books there are. Not really much "vision" required to bring those to screen. I realize there's more to it than this, but really you just "copy" (act out) the panels and bring it to life.

 

Yeah, he changed the ending of Watchmen, but he's basically putting Moore's vision on the screen. Robert Rodriguez did the same thing with Sin City (another truly "cinematic" book). He did it better than Snyder did.

 

I'm sure the Bats/Superman fight will be great. Frank Miller already laid the whole thing out perfectly for him.

[Bosco685]

Hector, here is the issue I have. This isn't just a cool comic book movie, this is the cornerstone piece for WB's Universe. No-one asked them to do this, they could have just made a sequel to MoS and the expectations would have been much lower. WB comes out and announces an aggressive 10 movie, 5 year plan. This is the lynchpin, there to set expectations. Compare it not to Marvel (who never announced a plan, but rather their way for handling their movies became the "Marvel Method: Movie Edition" but rather to Disney Star Wars. Disney comes out and says "We are making 6 Star Wars related films in the next 8 years, and JJ Abrams is directing the first one" How much pressure was there on TFA? A lot. It could have just been a good movie that made $1 billion and the fans would have liked it, BUT when you put that kind of pressure on a film a billion is a failure because the expectations were so much higher, and calls the rest of the plans into question.

 

Zach Snyder is not just the director of BvS, but he is supposed to be the Kevin Feige of the DCU. If he can't pull off BvS, then what confidence should we have in the other (more difficult) films (Aquaman, I'm looking at you). Time Warner is investing Billions into DCU (assuming a minimum $100 million budget for each of the 10 films, plus marketing budgets) Time Warner is not Disney, they can't afford to lose money (TW has a market cap of 1/3rd of Disney, with a annual profit of only about 3 billion, Disney's annual profit is almost 10 times that (between 22 and 24 billion)

 

Barring the Zack Snyder=Kevin Feige confusion, I do agree there is a lot riding on this movie. Which unfortunately then makes it difficult not to be perceived as the cornerstone for the rest of the franchise releases, and allow it to perform as a standalone film. That's a tough standard to achieve.

 

We'll see what comes of this. I just hope they didn't sacrifice the current movie focus to allow for building up the bigger franchise.

[fantastic_four]

Based on Snyder’s comments, and previously announced partnerships, here’s a quick breakdown of the aforementioned DCEU brain trust:

• Charles Roven – Producer (Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Justice League Part One, The Flash, Aquaman, and Justice League Part Two)
  
• Richard Suckle – Producer (Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman)
  
• Wesley Coller – Producer (with the Snyders) at Cruel and Unusual Films
  
• Geoff Johns – Chief Creative Officer at DC Comics (and DCEU Producer as well as Creative Consultant)
  
• Jon Berg – Oversees DCEU live-action films as Executive Vice President of Development at Warner Bros.
  
• Greg Silverman – President of Creative Development and Worldwide Production at Warner Bros.

 

The only potential Feige on that list with comic book geek cred is Geoff Johns; the others look like film execs that Warner shoved in there. This situation looks vaguely similar to the early Marvel film days when Avi Arad was in charge and quality was in the hands of whichever director they picked with execs sometimes letting them do their thing and sometimes not. They did well with Sam Raimi, then started micro-managing him when it all came apart. Bryan Singer did OK. But the guy in charge, Arad, had no consistent ability to pick good directors or guide content like Feige and his Marvel helpers have achieved.

 

If that list of guys are really the people guiding the films, I see no quick end in sight to sucky films. The quickest fix would be to raise Geoff Johns up and let him pull the best DC writers in, but that assumes Johns has the ability that Feige does. And he very well may not.

[Bosco685]

If that list of guys are really the people guiding the films, I see no quick end in sight to sucky films. The quickest fix would be to raise Geoff Johns up and let him pull the best DC writers in, but that assumes Johns has the ability that Feige does. And he very well may not.

 

Yeah, where Feige has been producing superhero movies for quite some time now (since the 2000 X-Men film), Johns made his bones as a comic book creator. To have a mix of both is a tough one to find.

[chrisco37]

Wasn't Jeff Loeb a producer on Smallville? Or was he just a consultant?

 

He'd be a pretty good guy to have in that spot (if Johns couldn't/wouldn't do it). I love the idea of Johns overseeing it. He's been the most consistently good mainstream Superhero guy in the DC stable.

[bane]

Isn't Loeb a producer on Daredevil at the moment?

[chrisco37]

Isn't Loeb a producer on Daredevil at the moment?

 

You might be right. I haven't watched the new season yet, but I think I do remember seeing his name in the opening credits when I was watching Season 1 (now that you mention it).

[fantastic_four]

If that list of guys are really the people guiding the films, I see no quick end in sight to sucky films. The quickest fix would be to raise Geoff Johns up and let him pull the best DC writers in, but that assumes Johns has the ability that Feige does. And he very well may not.

 

Yeah, where Feige has been producing superhero movies for quite some time now (since the 2000 X-Men film), Johns made his bones as a comic book creator. To have a mix of both is a tough one to find.

 

Feige was a comic book nerd who became a film exec under Arad's tutelage. Johns has more nerd cred since he's been a writer but Feige wasn't, and Johns is slowly getting film producer/exec experience. He might be a Feige equivalent right now, or maybe in a few years--or maybe he's even better since he's got real creative work done in his career unlike Feige--but either way we'll never know if he has to answer to a bunch of other non-comic-nerds on that committee list. Feige wasn't Feige until he got promoted out of Arad's shadow; Johns can't be Feige if he doesn't get the chance to be. Looks to me like he deserves a chance.

[JayT]

To be fair, Johns did start in film under Donner and he is co-writing with Affleck soon.

 

Being a "comic book guy" IMHO has very little to do with being a successful executive/studio head/executive producer. Feige is going to be hard to replicate, guy is an anomally and did this thing right. I mean, while it was VERY early to consider it and has gone away now, there were rumors that this guy is a potential future Disney head. Rumors were baseless but to even been rumored for that is GIANT. Since then, however, Iger has reupped and a couple of other executives have come to the forefront.

 

The guy is good at what he does.

 

Wasn't Jeff Loeb a producer on Smallville? Or was he just a consultant?

 

He'd be a pretty good guy to have in that spot (if Johns couldn't/wouldn't do it). I love the idea of Johns overseeing it. He's been the most consistently good mainstream Superhero guy in the DC stable.

 

I'd be careful not to put too much stock in "producer". Producer credit can be given out rather loosely, That said Loeb does have experience as a writer and producer on Heroes, Smallville, and a small bit of LOST (though they had a writing room and the showrunners were really behind that show). In TV showrunners and writers are the big creative entities.

 

He has a real sweet job as head of Marvel TV right now, though I'd suspect a bump up as the hand that navigates a DC cinematic universe would be a substantial raise.

 

I kind of think Shield sucks tho .

 

Most Daredevil season 1 credit goes to Deknight, after Drew Goddard developed it and left. Typically showrunners get the credit for TV success.

[kagenish]

from what i seen eveybody is saying the first half is great but some parts of the second just fall short. everybody is loving ben affleck has batman and gal as wonder woman and the way i'm seening it now is this movie is Iron man 2 for the DCU. i'm going to stop from seening anymore video, article's about BvS until iu see the movie Thrusday and i'll give my on friday after i see it for a second time.

[JayT]

from what i seen eveybody is saying the first half is great but some parts of the second just fall short. everybody is loving ben affleck has batman and gal as wonder woman and the way i'm seening it now is this movie is Iron man 2 for the DCU. i'm going to stop from seening anymore video, article's about BvS until iu see the movie Thrusday and i'll give my on friday after i see it for a second time.

 

I've heard different. I've heard that the first half is next level boring.

[chrisco37]

from what i seen eveybody is saying the first half is great but some parts of the second just fall short. everybody is loving ben affleck has batman and gal as wonder woman and the way i'm seening it now is this movie is Iron man 2 for the DCU. i'm going to stop from seening anymore video, article's about BvS until iu see the movie Thrusday and i'll give my on friday after i see it for a second time.

 

I've heard different. I've heard that the first half is next level boring.

 

That's what I was just told as well.

[Rmfn33]

This is craziness!

 

I saw it Monday night at a fan screening... Im not a movie critic and I also tend to find enjoyment out of most things. So yes probably not the best person to ask about the movie but I just wanted to get my opinion out there.

 

Is this The Dark Knight or Batman Begins.. no its not that type of movie.

 

Is this the best Batman we have seen on screen I would say yes to that.. It makes me extremely excited to see the solo Batman movie that hopefully still gets out there.

 

Did I love this movie.. Im not sure yet. I do know that while i was watching it I was thoroughly enjoying myself. From start to end I never thought it was boring at all.

 

I am seeing it again Thursday night and Friday night and I will have a better understanding of my feelings then. But the more I think about it the more I believe I will be loving this movie by the weeks end.

 

There is so much to process and yes while that might be a bad thing for a single movie. Its such a great thing for this movie as its a cornerstone of whats to come.

 

There is one scene in this movie about mid way thru that I still cannot stop thinking about. That scene alone has me extremely excited about the Justice League and every other movie coming in this universe.

 

Thoughts on some of the players.

 

Affleck - Amazing portrayal of the old Bruce Wayne from TDKR. This is not Christian Bales Bat where he toss's the champagne from the roof. He reminds me so much of Frank Millers dection of Bruce and Batman. It as amazing to see on screen. I know some people and critics are going to have a problem with his "violence" and yes he is very violent and does some "unbatman" things you have to remember hes been around for 20+ years and hes over it. He does what needs to get done now.

 

Irons as Alfred- Awesome interpretation of the character. Loved his interactions with Bruce.

 

Cavil - Im not the biggest superman guy but he is serviceable again. I think he can be a bit one noted at times. He plays a very very good somber and mad superman but still waiting for his uplifting superman to come thru a bit more.

 

Jesse Eisenberg- I absolutely loved his take on the character. I thought from the start this type of Lex was a cool way to go about it. His mannerisms and the way he goes about his business in the movie is very cool. I dont want to say too much as I fear spoiling.

 

Gadot- she is good. Its hard to say anything more about her really as the role is so small.. She by no means is bad at all, but people saying she steals the movie are just trying to play up women power I believe. She is good and she has a key role in the end and I look forward to her solo movie.

 

Overall I dont think it tried too hard to set up the DCEU and this movie can stand on its own.

 

And just a little hint to on whats to come

 

 

I will be re reading a classic run in the near future because DAMN

 

 

I would give it a 8.8 out of 10 Right now and I will re vist after Fridays viewing..

 

my $0.02