IF THIS IS THE COPPER AGE??

[blowout]

I cannot disagree with my statement. Comics IN GENERAL were better in the 1980's then they were in the 1960's.

 

That is particularly true for DC (that's in my opinion...).

 

There aren't really any legitimate comparisons available between the ground-breaking independant comics of the 1980's and the other publishers in the 1960's.

 

As for Marvel... it varies from title to title...

 

I am not saying that Spider-Man comics in the 80's were better than Spider-Man comics in the 1960's... but they were pretty good in sections.

 

I do prefer Byrne's FF over 90% of Lee-Kirby (yes, that's blasphemy, I know).

 

Ditto for Simonson's Thor over Kirby's Thor.

 

X-Men was never better than Claremont-Byrne... but Claremont-Smith and Claremont-Romita Jr. were pretty darn. good.

 

Byrne and then Peter David's Hulk comics were much more enjoyable IMO than the entire Hulk run in Tales to Astonish...

 

While most of what you are saying is true (don't agree with the Byrne FF and Simonson Thor comparisons) all the characters were CREATED in the Silver Age and that really can't be beated by Marvel in Copper.

[Kevin Boyd]

Possibly, but comic books are not all about storytelling, and if that were all collectors were interested in then I'm sure novels would be the way to go.

 

If you believe that comics storytelling is simply about the written word then I feel sorry for you. I think you know better than that and simply rushed out a hasty counterpoint.

[Kevin Boyd]

While most of what you are saying is true (don't agree with the Byrne FF and Simonson Thor comparisons) all the characters were CREATED in the Silver Age and that really can't be beated by Marvel in Copper.

 

Which is why I said Marvel was turning out some of the best comics SINCE Silver.

 

Silver Marvel is better than Marvel Copper. I agree.

[deathlok]

While most of what you are saying is true (don't agree with the Byrne FF and Simonson Thor comparisons) all the characters were CREATED in the Silver Age and that really can't be beated by Marvel in Copper.

 

Which is why I said Marvel was turning out some of the best comics SINCE Silver.

 

Silver Marvel is better than Marvel Copper. I agree.

 

How about Marvel Adamantium or Marvel Vibranium? Are those better than Marvel Silver or Marvel Copper?

[blowout]

While most of what you are saying is true (don't agree with the Byrne FF and Simonson Thor comparisons) all the characters were CREATED in the Silver Age and that really can't be beated by Marvel in Copper.

 

Which is why I said Marvel was turning out some of the best comics SINCE Silver.

 

Silver Marvel is better than Marvel Copper. I agree.

 

Fair enough, I tend to focus on Marvel as that is my main collecting area, so for me the Silver Age is king.

The independants were certainly better in the 80's than any other decade and I am familiar with DC's excellent output in the copper age, but haven't read any of their Silver Age stuff, so can't really make a judgement call on the best era for them.

[shadroch]

Seeing how Marvel was putting out less than a dozen books a month in the early SA and DC wasn't putting out to many quality ones,I'd agree the best time to be a comic reader may well have been the 1984-87 years.

there was an air of excitement in the shops then,some new big thing almost every month.

Marvel with Simonsons Thor and Spideys new suit, X-Men you could read,Peter David,Dreadstar.DC putting out DK, Watchmen,Camelot3000,Byrne redoing Superman,Alan Moore writing what is most likely THE BEST Superman story ever,Swampthing,Omega Men,the Titans and the Legion.

New publishers bringing us American Flagg,Sabre,Sable,Nexus,Twisted Tales,Elemetals,Mr Monster and old ones producing high quality Cerebus and Elfquest.

The English invasion with Judge Dredd and MarvelMan leading the way.

Baxter and Mando paper.Graphic novels and TPBs were still in their infancy.New shops popping up like mushrooms.Comic shops that auctually had backissues and weren't overun by gamesters.

Sales were up,new readers were flocking in,and the future looked bright.

And then came Perlman.

[Jayman]

Seeing how Marvel was putting out less than a dozen books a month in the early SA and DC wasn't putting out to many quality ones,I'd agree the best time to be a comic reader may well have been the 1984-87 years.

there was an air of excitement in the shops then,some new big thing almost every month.

Marvel with Simonsons Thor and Spideys new suit, X-Men you could read,Peter David,Dreadstar.DC putting out DK, Watchmen,Camelot3000,Byrne redoing Superman,Alan Moore writing what is most likely THE BEST Superman story ever,Swampthing,Omega Men,the Titans and the Legion.

New publishers bringing us American Flagg,Sabre,Sable,Nexus,Twisted Tales,Elemetals,Mr Monster and old ones producing high quality Cerebus and Elfquest.

The English invasion with Judge Dredd and MarvelMan leading the way.

Baxter and Mando paper.Graphic novels and TPBs were still in their infancy.New shops popping up like mushrooms.Comic shops that auctually had backissues and weren't overun by gamesters.

Sales were up,new readers were flocking in,and the future looked bright.

And then came Perlman.

 

It was a great time wasn't it? *sigh*

Yeah, I remember comic shops that sold ONLY comics! Now most are like convenience stores or a Toys-R-Us. How times change.

[Sharkey]

 

I do prefer Byrne's FF over 90% of Lee-Kirby (yes, that's blasphemy, I know).

 

Ditto for Simonson's Thor over Kirby's Thor.

 

LA LA LA LA, I'M NOT LISTENING......

 

X-Men was never better than Claremont-Byrne... but Claremont-Smith and Claremont-Romita Jr. were pretty darn good.

 

Byrne and then Peter David's Hulk comics were much more enjoyable IMO than the entire Hulk run in Tales to Astonish...

 

I have to agree with you on these two, although I believe the first 20 issue of the Silver Age X-men were pivotal books, the next 30 were not, until Neal Adams made his mark in the #50s.

 

As far as Hulk, the TTA stories were quite forgettable both in content and in art. Although I did like the first 10 issues covered by Ditko.

[Kevin Boyd]

I didn't mention even mention Daredevil. That would be too obvious.

[25CentComic]

I didn't mention even mention Daredevil. That would be too obvious.

 

I just got the whole miller Daredevil run this weekend in lesser grades and spent the evening reading through them. OMFG, they were brillant. Talk about an emotional ride. It must of been amplified when one had to wait a month till the next book. I'm not even an elecktra fan but after reading that run I can see why fans still follow her act (even if she should have stay dead). It was the first time I EVER cared about Daredevil and his career. And the ending to the whole saga with issue #191 (DD playing Russian Roulete with Bullseye) was sheer genius. Especially with the last page showing DD pulling the trigger. Where has the quality story writting gone?

 

(sorry for grammar mistakes. I am unable to get access to ms word at the moment so bare with me)

[jbud73]

Ooooh I never happened up on this thread till now a little SA vs. CA. My opening shot, "The magic was created in the 60's but perfected in the early 80's" you can quote me on that.

 

Here's my arguement - The creations for Marvel especially were ground breaking and so much of the history and religon of the zombies is laid there. But have you read the stories? The dialogue is mostly down right corney - the exception being some of the FF stories as they approach the Galactus / Surfer app.

 

Boom - whack POW was still totally in usage. And lets just say that DC and the Word ballon covers was not exactly redefining innovation. I love Silver Age comics, the nostalgia, the classic artwork (on of my Pet Peeves today is the artificial overly computer look of some comics, just like too much CGI in movies - you loose that grainy gritting feeling that helps tie the medium to reality), but the plots were simplistic, the dialogue was not exactly pulitzer stuff either.

 

The Copper Age to me took the creations of the 60's and showed that they could be so much more. Comics grew up in the Copper Age, or came of Age so to speak and the talent drawn to the medium and created in the medium was definitely at a high point.

 

This parallel may have been drawn home by what I'm currently reading and I think it shows the progression quite nicely. A few months back I was reading the first 2 Essentials for Daredevil. I love Daredevil and really like the history behind the Character, the genius and statement of a blind super hero. But the first 25 issues are not exactly riviting stuff - villians like the Organizer and Stiltman and LeapFrog are not exactly the hi point of complexity.

 

I then went on to Read the Essential Tomb of Dracula. Here you can see the progression of Colan's Art and the Story Telling and plotting of Marv Wolfman has more diversity, complexity and appeal. Cut to my current Re-reading of the Moore Run on Swamp Thing in the Collected DC trades. Moore and Tolttben / Bissette truly craft a masterpiece of story and Art which has elements of the SA, but is so much more elaborate, you can see the art in all facets of the work and shows a true progression of the hobby.

 

Now all the SA baby boomers will cry foul, but if you look back with objectivity you will see the disparity espcially in the storytelling. That is not to say that things are always getting better - which is why I agree that the 1984-1989 period give or take years on both ends was a hi watermark for the perfecting of the comic craft.

 

I still pay homage to the genius that spawned all those characters and history through the GA AA SA BA - but in Copper raw resources - were refined into amazing things.

[The Brain]

jbud73, that was great, you are officaly a TFCA TRUE FRIEND OF THE COPPER AGE

[kidcolt]

Hmmm each age have positives and negatives. I still love the silver age books(especially the cover art), they were very creative but safe...In the copper age writers evolved those characters(and created some good ones) and pushed them to new exciting limits. The best thing about the bronze age is most prices for the raw ungraded copies are still affordable.

[matewan1990]

I've been focusing my original art collection on the Copper Age, collecting DC covers from that period. So far, I've got a few.

To me, the Copper Age was my Golden Age, since I grew up primarily in the 1980s. I was buying comics in the mid- to late-1970s, but I didn't start really getting hardcore into comics until 1982 when Miller was in full-stride on Daredevil. The X-Men around that period, too, were big in getting me more involved in comics. Then came Dreadstar and the Warlock baxter reprints and I was totally hooked. But, it wasn't until Crisis on Infinite Earths 2 that I became a comic book addict. I later got Crisis 1 and all the rest of the series. I also bought Ambush Bug, Son of Ambush Bug, Super Powers, Red Tornado and everything else DC was publishing during that mid- to late-1980s period.

I loved so much of DC's Copper Age output that I have even been known to trade some great Marvel 1970s and 1980s covers for DC 1980s covers (a hush falls over the crowd), but, I collect what I like and I like 1980s DC art.

Recently, I got a new Flash cover from that period, a Son of Ambush Bug cover, a Red Tornado cover, a Super Powers cover ... now, all I need is a Shadow War of Hawkman cover ...

And yes, I did read Dark Knight, Watchmen and everything else that was big during those years, but I wasn't nearly as impressed as I was with the regular, newsstand output from DC. I loved those serieses, but, my Red Tornado 2 cover art is as prized in my collection as a bunch of Dark Knight pages.

[chrisco37]

Do you have any Watchmen art, Mike? What pages from DKR do you have? How about any Bolland stuff? Swamp Thing (Totlebon/Bissett?)

 

Also, moving away from DC, do you have any Miller DD art?

 

Thanks, in advance.

[matewan1990]

No, unfortunately, I don't own any Miller art or Watchmen. What I was saying is that the art I have in my collection is worth more to me than a whole lot of Miller pages.

I just picked up the Keith Giffen/Bob Oksner Son of Ambush Bug 3 cover art and am working on a deal to get a couple other 1980s DC covers. I'll keep everyone informed when I get them and will post them on this thread.

Mike Browning

[Illiterati-migration]

I just picked up the Keith Giffen/Bob Oksner Son of Ambush Bug 3 cover art and am working on a deal to get a couple other 1980s DC covers. I'll keep everyone informed when I get them and will post them on this thread.

Mike Browning

 

[matewan1990]

Here's the Son of Ambush Bug 3 cover I just received yesterday from Will Gabri-El. This is a great Keith Giffen/Bob Oksner cover from 1986.

[chrisco37]

Here's the Son of Ambush Bug 3 cover I just received yesterday from Will Gabri-El. This is a great Keith Giffen/Bob Oksner cover from 1986.

 

Nice, Mike!

 

Awesome cover swipe!!!!

[Weird]

That is a sweet cover. I remember reading that series as it came out when I was young. Good stuff.