Which is better? SS exclusive opps or book limits?

[Jimmy Linguini]

Hey let's all get back on subject... Bad Mood + Headache = Excuse to rip someone a new one about what happened last weekend.

 

[5ive]

As long as everyone including the creator is taking care of, that's a good system

[comix4fun]

For CGC books and anyone who has a large amount of items to be signed (larger than the stated limits for signing times) I try to set aside time outside of the show hours to get all those items signed.

Sounds like a good plan overall. But, I have a question. Why does the CGC status impact the time involved or the interference with raw item signatures? That is, I can understand setting aside time for any sig request above the stated amounts. But why would there be an additional distinction for SS books? Doesn't it take the same amount of time for a creator to sign 3 window bagged books as it does for 2 trades and a poster?

 

 

It's simply easier to have all CGC books set aside and signed at the same time. Easier for facilitators, easier for the creator and their management, easier for fans who have no interest in CGC and want to make sure they get something signed that weekend that might not otherwise be signed if a facilitator seeds the line with a dozen proxies removing spots from other fans in the exchange.

 

For the majority of the books SS'd at any given show, they are brought to us by facilitators, operating as a business. As such, the creator is going to be compensated for allowing special times to make sure those multiples are completed and the facilitator's time is not taken waiting in line and he/she doesn't have to be "creative" finding ways to get a mass of books signed with a 2-3 item limit per person.

 

It's done to balance the time available between the random fan, the businessman, and removes the temptation to skirt the system while providing a real incentive for compliance.

[MedicAR]

For CGC books and anyone who has a large amount of items to be signed (larger than the stated limits for signing times) I try to set aside time outside of the show hours to get all those items signed.

Sounds like a good plan overall. But, I have a question. Why does the CGC status impact the time involved or the interference with raw item signatures? That is, I can understand setting aside time for any sig request above the stated amounts. But why would there be an additional distinction for SS books? Doesn't it take the same amount of time for a creator to sign 3 window bagged books as it does for 2 trades and a poster?

 

 

It's simply easier to have all CGC books set aside and signed at the same time. Easier for facilitators, easier for the creator and their management, easier for fans who have no interest in CGC and want to make sure they get something signed that weekend that might not otherwise be signed if a facilitator seeds the line with a dozen proxies removing spots from other fans in the exchange.

 

For the majority of the books SS'd at any given show, they are brought to us by facilitators, operating as a business. As such, the creator is going to be compensated for allowing special times to make sure those multiples are completed and the facilitator's time is not taken waiting in line and he/she doesn't have to be "creative" finding ways to get a mass of books signed with a 2-3 item limit per person.

 

It's done to balance the time available between the random fan, the businessman, and removes the temptation to skirt the system while providing a real incentive for compliance.

 

 

This. This is really how it should all be done. Everyone wins, everything is transparent, there are no hard feelings, and everyone gets compensated properly.

 

I know it's a logistic nightmare, but the only way I see to improve upon this is to have a "CGC signing party" at the end of each day (or just one day) of a show, arranged with the promoter and creators. A controlled environment where, again, everyone wins.

[Transplant]

For CGC books and anyone who has a large amount of items to be signed (larger than the stated limits for signing times) I try to set aside time outside of the show hours to get all those items signed.

Sounds like a good plan overall. But, I have a question. Why does the CGC status impact the time involved or the interference with raw item signatures? That is, I can understand setting aside time for any sig request above the stated amounts. But why would there be an additional distinction for SS books? Doesn't it take the same amount of time for a creator to sign 3 window bagged books as it does for 2 trades and a poster?

 

 

It's simply easier to have all CGC books set aside and signed at the same time. Easier for facilitators, easier for the creator and their management, easier for fans who have no interest in CGC and want to make sure they get something signed that weekend that might not otherwise be signed if a facilitator seeds the line with a dozen proxies removing spots from other fans in the exchange.

But, and I'm neither trying be antagonistic nor am I ignorant that this is not a great % of SS books, aren't you cutting out potentially non-facilitator SS books?

 

You and I both know someone who does sufficient SS volume at a show to get their own CAW for their own books, not those of others. This person, under these private signings, can no longer handle the books themselves. It leads to increased cost and takes the book out of their hands, possible leading to improper handling damage.

 

Again I ask, how is it easier to cut out these individuals and make them go through a special signing? How does it materially reduce the creator's load vs. having a book limit in place that CGC agrees to, enforced by their CAWs?

[BeachBum]

I don't like the whole controlled signing thing but I've seen firsthand why it is happening now.

 

There are pluses to it - Creator/Fan interaction.

 

But there are a lot of minuses. I like to control my books. I don't like anyone handling them. For this reason I only use CGC witnesses and a very few facilitators who I know personally. There are some facilitators that I will NEVER let handle my books because I've seen how they and their witnesses handle books. I've seen a Wolverine limited series issue get the top thumb jammed because the facilitator was too busy yapping away while window bagging it.

 

I've seen books cry out to me. Help! Help!

 

That being said I had an incident at SDCC at one artist's table (the water incident) which prevented me from getting my books ready for the Campbell signing later that day. Jeff was nice enough to sign a small pile of books (5 I think) at closing but I had to hold the others back until on-site at WW Chicago. Now there was a private signing there as well for Campbell but I bumped into him at the start of the show and he said he would be happy to sign my books for me (you know I was worried about on-site cut-off).

 

I ran, got a witness, had my books signed, and happily handed over the per book fee. As we all know on-site was cut-off before the private signing and I might have been the only one to get Campbell on-site graded.

 

The other thing which is causing the private signings - Some facilitators were not handing over or complaining about the Artist's fee for signing and working around paying it. I'm sure those same facilitators are probably still charging their customers even though they are actually not paying it.

 

There is a lot of Facilitator on facilitator hate crime going on out there. Stop being babies, grow up, be professional, act like the adults you are and help each other out instead of worrying what the other person has that you don't.

[Transplant]

By way of example, I was at the CGC booth when a number of different people came by asking for a witness for Claremont. I was amazed that people have learned to request a witness to get something SS'd. But I also felt for these folks who were told that CGC wasn't sending a witness and that the person would have to go through a special signing where the person couldn't be present. Or, worse yet, these people were told that they had missed the special signing and were SOL.

[Transplant]

I don't like the whole controlled signing thing but I've seen firsthand why it is happening now.

 

There are pluses to it - Creator/Fan interaction.

 

But there are a lot of minuses. I like to control my books. I don't like anyone handling them. For this reason I only use CGC witnesses and a very few facilitators who I know personally. There are some facilitators that I will NEVER let handle my books because I've seen how they and their witnesses handle books. I've seen a Wolverine limited series issue get the top thumb jammed because the facilitator was too busy yapping away while window bagging it.

 

I've seen books cry out to me. Help! Help!

 

That being said I had an incident at SDCC at one artist's table (the water incident) which prevented me from getting my books ready for the Campbell signing later that day. Jeff was nice enough to sign a small pile of books (5 I think) at closing but I had to hold the others back until on-site at WW Chicago. Now there was a private signing there as well for Campbell but I bumped into him at the start of the show and he said he would be happy to sign my books for me (you know I was worried about on-site cut-off).

 

I ran, got a witness, had my books signed, and happily handed over the per book fee. As we all know on-site was cut-off before the private signing and I might have been the only one to get Campbell on-site graded.

 

The other thing which is causing the private signings - Some facilitators were not handing over or complaining about the Artist's fee for signing and working around paying it. I'm sure those same facilitators are probably still charging their customers even though they are actually not paying it.

 

There is a lot of Facilitator on facilitator hate crime going on out there. Stop being babies, grow up, be professional, act like the adults you are and help each other out instead of worrying what the other person has that you don't.

 

I've heard all the same stuff.

 

I think CGC's enforcement mechanism is the CAW. They are CGC's rep at the signing. They should be either enforcing or relaying violations of creator rules about volume, fees, etc. Then, hopefully, CGC would actually punish some of the bad actors who are driving this.

[comix4fun]

For CGC books and anyone who has a large amount of items to be signed (larger than the stated limits for signing times) I try to set aside time outside of the show hours to get all those items signed.

Sounds like a good plan overall. But, I have a question. Why does the CGC status impact the time involved or the interference with raw item signatures? That is, I can understand setting aside time for any sig request above the stated amounts. But why would there be an additional distinction for SS books? Doesn't it take the same amount of time for a creator to sign 3 window bagged books as it does for 2 trades and a poster?

 

 

It's simply easier to have all CGC books set aside and signed at the same time. Easier for facilitators, easier for the creator and their management, easier for fans who have no interest in CGC and want to make sure they get something signed that weekend that might not otherwise be signed if a facilitator seeds the line with a dozen proxies removing spots from other fans in the exchange.

But, and I'm neither trying be antagonistic nor am I ignorant that this is not a great % of SS books, aren't you cutting out potentially non-facilitator SS books?

 

You and I both know someone who does sufficient SS volume at a show to get their own CAW for their own books, not those of others. This person, under these private signings, can no longer handle the books themselves. It leads to increased cost and takes the book out of their hands, possible leading to improper handling damage.

 

Again I ask, how is it easier to cut out these individuals and make them go through a special signing? How does it materially reduce the creator's load vs. having a book limit in place that CGC agrees to, enforced by their CAWs?

 

Yes it prevents non-facilitator SS books from standing in the regular free signing line. Given that people submitting books for SS voluntarily submit themselves to paperwork, expense, delays and layer upon layer of administration to complete their process this doesn't seem like anything arduous, difficult, or unduly burdensome. In fact, most see it as a boon that frees them up to enjoy the convention while their books are being signed without them having to deal with the crowd and the wait.

 

It's not forcing people to take the book out of their hands, and it's not leaving them to a private signing per se. It's funneling all of their books to a different time than the free signing meant to move as many books for as many fans as possible. They are more than welcome to come by the booth at the same time CGC is bringing their batch over, hand them to the creator themselves, and watch their books being signed. It's their call.

 

No one is being "cut out", it's a special accommodation for CGC SS books to make sure books are signed and witnessed properly and to ensure everyone who wants something can get something without the mass free signing be muddied with proxies taking up several spots when there is a set aside time and space to get those books done so everyone can get something done.

 

Allowing everyone to do everything at any time in any place can cause, and has caused, confusion and has made it, in the past, nearly impossible to organize and keep track of everything and balance the desires of everyone to be as fair as possible.

 

I think it's more fair to have a bulk CGC signing at a different time, and a mass public signing at its own time, where everything possible can get done for as many people as possible than to try and cram all the books into a single window of time, causing a more difficult logistic situation for creator and management, that allows for people to attempt to circumvent the fee structure and the wishes of the creator, and causes management for the creator to move far more slowly attempting to ensure that the creator's wishes are being fulfilled.

 

Speaking from experience, and having organized these signings in the way you desire (the way I used to handle things) and the way I mention here (the new and improved way) I can tell you that we can now handle a signature load that's at least double what would get completed in the past.

 

It's all about time, organization, demarcation, compartmentalization, and respect. Everyone gets something and it's fair. It may not be the way everyone wants it, when they want it, but it's fair. You should manage a popular creator's booth sometime to see what I mean. There's a strong wave of entitlement at these conventions. There are so many people that never raise their gaze up from their own navel long enough to realize that there's a delicate balance wherein everyone can get some measure of happiness and satisfaction. They will take advantage of other fans, creators, anyone and everyone they can to get what they want when they want it. They will blame the creator when he won't sign an entire 200 card set of his art cards....all 200 cards. They can have a line of 100 people waiting behind them and attempt to ignore the 3 book limit and plop down 12 books and get mad when I tell them no and to "look behind you".

 

It may not be perfect but it's fair, efficient, and it gets the most books done in the least amount of time for the largest amount of people in the way that's most respectful to the creator.

[GACollectibles]

For CGC books and anyone who has a large amount of items to be signed (larger than the stated limits for signing times) I try to set aside time outside of the show hours to get all those items signed.

Sounds like a good plan overall. But, I have a question. Why does the CGC status impact the time involved or the interference with raw item signatures? That is, I can understand setting aside time for any sig request above the stated amounts. But why would there be an additional distinction for SS books? Doesn't it take the same amount of time for a creator to sign 3 window bagged books as it does for 2 trades and a poster?

 

 

It's simply easier to have all CGC books set aside and signed at the same time. Easier for facilitators, easier for the creator and their management, easier for fans who have no interest in CGC and want to make sure they get something signed that weekend that might not otherwise be signed if a facilitator seeds the line with a dozen proxies removing spots from other fans in the exchange.

 

For the majority of the books SS'd at any given show, they are brought to us by facilitators, operating as a business. As such, the creator is going to be compensated for allowing special times to make sure those multiples are completed and the facilitator's time is not taken waiting in line and he/she doesn't have to be "creative" finding ways to get a mass of books signed with a 2-3 item limit per person.

 

It's done to balance the time available between the random fan, the businessman, and removes the temptation to skirt the system while providing a real incentive for compliance.

 

 

This. This is really how it should all be done. Everyone wins, everything is transparent, there are no hard feelings, and everyone gets compensated properly.

 

I know it's a logistic nightmare, but the only way I see to improve upon this is to have a "CGC signing party" at the end of each day (or just one day) of a show, arranged with the promoter and creators. A controlled environment where, again, everyone wins.

 

One of the issues with an excellent model like comix4fun's is that it is not likely to happen across the board with all creators but there is one way to eliminate a majority of the variables, and that is for ALL books to be submitted to CGC for signing and they handle the signings with the creators or creator's handler's.

[seanfingh]

 

I think CGC's enforcement mechanism is the CAW. They are CGC's rep at the signing. They should be either enforcing or relaying violations of creator rules about volume, fees, etc. Then, hopefully, CGC would actually punish some of the bad actors who are driving this.

 

[BeachBum]

 

I think CGC's enforcement mechanism is the CAW. They are CGC's rep at the signing. They should be either enforcing or relaying violations of creator rules about volume, fees, etc. Then, hopefully, CGC would actually punish some of the bad actors who are driving this.

 

 

Yeah, seeing how 99% of the CAWs are brought in the by the Facilitator that will probably never be the case.

[5ive]

I also think CGC should cut out a lot of the middle men and allow people to just submit SS books directly to them. They did a signing with Quesada once that I took part in. I shipped off my books directly to them and I got it back in good time, done deal. Also it's better that way for insurance purposes in case something happens to your book before it's graded.

[comix4fun]

I also think CGC should cut out a lot of the middle men and allow people to just submit SS books directly to them. They did a signing with Quesada once that I took part in. I shipped off my books directly to them and I got it back in good time, done deal. Also it's better that way for insurance purposes in case something happens to your book before it's graded.

 

 

CGC does not have enough manpower to handle that for every creator at every show. Do the math on how many creators there are at any given national show and it's a number that's not manageable without people, outside of CGC, being on hand to handle the books.

[5ive]

They can hire extra staff for larger events. All they would be doing is transferring books back and forth which takes no real training. They should want that type of control over their business.

[Transplant]

They can hire extra staff for larger events. All they would be doing is transferring books back and forth which takes no real training. They should want that type of control over their business.

For the most part, if you're present at a show you don't have to use a facilitator. Typically it makes sense to but it's not required.

[comix4fun]

They can hire extra staff for larger events. All they would be doing is transferring books back and forth which takes no real training. They should want that type of control over their business.

 

 

Sell that to the people submitting when they are hit with the extra costs associated. CGC will not, and should not, absorb it. If that's something customers want then they will need to pay for it.

 

From my perspective, it's not a great selling point that people with no real training will be handling my books.

[5ive]

I'm not talking about using them or graders or even having them touch a book, just have them take a box of books from point A to point B. That's what ups or usps does with our stuff anyway. I'm lucky that I live in NYC. We have a good number of shows that I can make and I'll also travel to shows in philly, Baltimore, or mega con in Orlando. For the poor guy who lives in the middle of no where, it's sucks he has to use a middle man.

[jonjesper]

Just wanted to drop in and say hi to everyone. Enjoyable read. See many of you at NYCC!

 

 

[dscott]

Just wanted to drop in and say hi to everyone. Enjoyable read. See many of you at NYCC!