The Original Writer Formerly Known As Alan Moore

[Dr. Balls]

I respectfully disagree. Moore signed a contract that was lopsided in Dc's favor, not because he was some gullible oaf, but because in the 80's, that was a writers only option to got his work published and read. He didnt have any leverage to negotiate with.

And while I agree that marketing goes a long way, watchmen speaks for itself. dC sold the new 52 on hype alone. Watchmen has substance, great charecterization, and generally, writing that at the time, was revolutionary in the medium.

I know moore alot and plays the "why me?" Card, but I genuinely think that the industry giants have wronged him time and time again over the years.

 

 

More resdership, in my opinion, would increase the collectability of the original issues.

 

Also just saw this acticle on comicbookresources.com about moore leaving DC. Apparently, the rights to watchmen revert to moore after it leaves print. So DC just keeps printing reprints of it (over 40 of them) so that he cant regain rights to the work. Underhanded.

 

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2013/10/18/comic-book-legends-revealed-441/

 

Again - he didn't or couldn't negotiate because he wanted his work in print. DC did not point a gun to his head and make him sign. He signed because he's a writer and that was his job. I see your side of the argument, but I don't believe that writers or artists are entitled to royalities after-the-fact if they don't negotiate them.

 

DC has the lawyers, the assets, the distribution channels, the media, the infrasctructure to market Watchmen. Alan Moore has a beard and a lunchbox. I'm not going to throw rocks at a company just because they know how to leverage their products.

 

Do you see this thing? My advertising agency helped develop the schematics for it's development, oversaw the injection molding process, extensively consulted with the client on it's creation as well as create the technical illustrations used to market it and lure investors before the patent was sold and the owner made quite a princely sum. Does that entitle me to knock on his door and say: "I created some very nice graphics to help sell this product and make it popular, now give me some damn money?"

 

Of course not. Because that was not part of mine, or my agency's deal with the client. We were hired to do a job, and we did it - end of story. Thinking that it doesn't work that way on 100X the scale and with much cooler subject matter is not correct.

[shadroch]

In your case, you were hired to do a job. I assume that other companies were able to do the same job if you passed on it.

No one at DC came up with the idea for Watchmen. Moore came up with the idea and approached DC with it .

[Bird]

They dont, clearly. As we're participating in a coversation about marvel omitting his name from a series he wrote and republishing it themselves. As far as why he's upset, watchmen is the #1 reprinted graphic novel of all time. Last year, DC's absolute line consisted of 25% of works written by alan moore.none of this he see's anything from. Just because "everyone worked for hire for the big 2" doesnt make it right. We've still got creators that dont see three nickels for their creations while huge media giants make millions from them. Maybe we just disagree, but in my mind, thats something wrong in the industry that needs to be fixed.

 

It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's what he signed up for and knew full well going into it.

 

If you believe this you don't understand the start of all this. The Watchmen rights/reprintings were not what he signed up for at all. DC misrepresented their intentions or changed them after that first printing, depending on the story you get.

 

And all this talk about sympathy is hogwash; he never asked for any.

 

And about the cheque,he doesn't take the movie money (has his share sent to the artists instead) so I doubt he will take this money.

[Shaven Kev-migration]

Its not about the money like has already been mentioned. He gave his rights in the work to his collaborators. He has moved on and just doesnt want his name used to sell the thing as its repackaged and resold on down the line.

[vaillant]

Just because a company has the funds, resources and distribution to reap millions off an idea one of their employees had does not make it evil or unfair. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. If a fully actualized adult hasn't figured out that that is how the world works - it is not my responsiblity to feel sympathy for them.

 

IMHO, creators like Jack Kirby deserve sympathy because of how they were treated - not because they weren't financially or contracturally compensated.

 

That’s just right. (thumbs u

[Logan510]

In your case, you were hired to do a job. I assume that other companies were able to do the same job if you passed on it.

No one at DC came up with the idea for Watchmen. Moore came up with the idea and approached DC with it .

 

And it was still work for hire....unlike Ronin which is still owned by Frank Miller because he was smart enough to negotiate that kind of deal for himself.

[Meta4]

You make it sound like people were able to negotiate with Dc for creators rights, which, from everything I've read about it, wasn't a possibility back then. You took the contract how it was written, or you didnt get your book published. Yes, it's legal, but pretty underhanded of DC to set up contracts like that. I'm certainly not going to celebrate them for having shady buisness practices.

What it boils down to, is I respect watchmen as a work. It impresses me, it effected me. I have respect for the creator of that work above the company that published it for a profit. In an ideal world, large publishing companies should be run by people who love this industry, and the hobby in general. People who respect the artist's they are employing. Unfortunately, thats not the case with the big 2. (Or even image, after how todd mcfarlane has acted). Their primary goal is profit at all costs. Unfortunately, the viewpoint is pretty shortsighted. They could make the same amount of profit if they spent their time and energy focused on publicising their artists and writers. putting out the most cutting edge, revolutionary product, and letting the books make the money rather than licencing rights.

[RockMyAmadeus]

You make it sound like people were able to negotiate with Dc for creators rights, which, from everything I've read about it, wasn't a possibility back then. You took the contract how it was written, or you didnt get your book published. Yes, it's legal, but pretty underhanded of DC to set up contracts like that. I'm certainly not going to celebrate them for having shady buisness practices.

 

 

 

What it boils down to, is I respect watchmen as a work. It impresses me, it effected me. I have respect for the creator of that work above the company that published it for a profit. In an ideal world, large publishing companies should be run by people who love this industry, and the hobby in general. People who respect the artist's they are employing. Unfortunately, thats not the case with the big 2. (Or even image, after how todd mcfarlane has acted). Their primary goal is profit at all costs.

 

:o

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Free-market_capitalism

 

 

Unfortunately, the viewpoint is pretty shortsighted. They could make the same amount of profit if they spent their time and energy focused on publicising their artists and writers. putting out the most cutting edge, revolutionary product, and letting the books make the money rather than licencing rights.

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Logan510]

You make it sound like people were able to negotiate with Dc for creators rights, which, from everything I've read about it, wasn't a possibility back then. You took the contract how it was written, or you didnt get your book published. Yes, it's legal, but pretty underhanded of DC to set up contracts like that. I'm certainly not going to celebrate them for having shady buisness practices.

What it boils down to, is I respect watchmen as a work. It impresses me, it effected me. I have respect for the creator of that work above the company that published it for a profit. In an ideal world, large publishing companies should be run by people who love this industry, and the hobby in general. People who respect the artist's they are employing. Unfortunately, thats not the case with the big 2. (Or even image, after how todd mcfarlane has acted). Their primary goal is profit at all costs. Unfortunately, the viewpoint is pretty shortsighted. They could make the same amount of profit if they spent their time and energy focused on publicising their artists and writers. putting out the most cutting edge, revolutionary product, and letting the books make the money rather than licencing rights.

 

As soon as DC said no to Moore using the Charlton characters he could've taken Watchmen to another publisher and owned it outright.

[shadroch]

You make it sound like people were able to negotiate with Dc for creators rights, which, from everything I've read about it, wasn't a possibility back then. You took the contract how it was written, or you didnt get your book published. Yes, it's legal, but pretty underhanded of DC to set up contracts like that. I'm certainly not going to celebrate them for having shady buisness practices.

What it boils down to, is I respect watchmen as a work. It impresses me, it effected me. I have respect for the creator of that work above the company that published it for a profit. In an ideal world, large publishing companies should be run by people who love this industry, and the hobby in general. People who respect the artist's they are employing. Unfortunately, thats not the case with the big 2. (Or even image, after how todd mcfarlane has acted). Their primary goal is profit at all costs. Unfortunately, the viewpoint is pretty shortsighted. They could make the same amount of profit if they spent their time and energy focused on publicising their artists and writers. putting out the most cutting edge, revolutionary product, and letting the books make the money rather than licencing rights.

 

As soon as DC said no to Moore using the Charlton characters he could've taken Watchmen to another publisher and owned it outright.

 

Which publisher would that have been?

 

[Logan510]

You make it sound like people were able to negotiate with Dc for creators rights, which, from everything I've read about it, wasn't a possibility back then. You took the contract how it was written, or you didnt get your book published. Yes, it's legal, but pretty underhanded of DC to set up contracts like that. I'm certainly not going to celebrate them for having shady buisness practices.

What it boils down to, is I respect watchmen as a work. It impresses me, it effected me. I have respect for the creator of that work above the company that published it for a profit. In an ideal world, large publishing companies should be run by people who love this industry, and the hobby in general. People who respect the artist's they are employing. Unfortunately, thats not the case with the big 2. (Or even image, after how todd mcfarlane has acted). Their primary goal is profit at all costs. Unfortunately, the viewpoint is pretty shortsighted. They could make the same amount of profit if they spent their time and energy focused on publicising their artists and writers. putting out the most cutting edge, revolutionary product, and letting the books make the money rather than licencing rights.

 

As soon as DC said no to Moore using the Charlton characters he could've taken Watchmen to another publisher and owned it outright.

 

Which publisher would that have been?

First Comics, Eclipse, Marvel's imprint Epic?

[Senormac]

that would have been interesting

[Aweandlorder]

As long as DC keeps reprinting Watchmen Alan Moore will have a job

[Dr. Balls]

In your case, you were hired to do a job. I assume that other companies were able to do the same job if you passed on it.

No one at DC came up with the idea for Watchmen. Moore came up with the idea and approached DC with it .

 

It doesn't matter whether someone else could do it - I did it, thereby by how this argument is working, I am entitled to rights after the fact I've already been paid for the work and the benefactor has made and continues to make money on it.

 

If that is the case (of Moore not being a work for hire, but an uncontracted freelancer), then Moore came up with the idea and in the desire to generate revenue with that idea, approached a company to produce and distribute it. Am I to understand that he willingly walked into DC Comics and asked them to utilize his idea, signed a contract to do so and now he's mad that it doesn't work in his favor?

 

I'm still not seeing where this is the fault of DC comics.

 

I've made some stupid mistakes in my life, but I don't blame others for my lack of experience or shortcomings in business at the time of the mistake. I understand Alan Moore can't stand to see his creation line someone else's pockets does, but man - I feel some sympathy for him in the sense that he clearly can't let it go.

 

In your case, you were hired to do a job. I assume that other companies were able to do the same job if you passed on it.

No one at DC came up with the idea for Watchmen. Moore came up with the idea and approached DC with it .

 

And it was still work for hire....unlike Ronin which is still owned by Frank Miller because he was smart enough to negotiate that kind of deal for himself.

 

DC paid Moore for Watchmen. DC owns Watchmen. End of story.

 

I don't think we can explain the black and white definition of the work-for-hire concept to people who want to see grey area where there isn't any.

[Aman619]

Moores understanding was that he would regain the rights to Watchman after it stopped being reprinted. But either by design, or by sheer irony, Moore did such a good job, and It was so successful that DC has made a mint off of it in continued sales ever since.

 

 

but, overall I think Alan Moore acts like a real jerk. If he wanted, Hollywood would LOOVE to be in business with him! Theyd welcome his involvement in the movies based on his comics work, and sign a 3 picture deal for any other ideas he wanted to pitch to them!

 

well, they MIGHT have been interested if he hadn't acted like a self righteous holier than thou maniac all these years. Who takes their name off their films? Who refuses to take any money for them?? He is really the Modern Age Steve Ditko....so completely and deliberately out of step with the rest of us -- on Principle!

 

Admirable, to be sure... but cmon!

[bb8]

To my understanding, Moore went into From Hell and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen with eyes wide open. He got paid and still moaned about Hollywood "butchering [his] baby." Don't get me wrong, I think he's supremely talented, but compared to creators like Kirby and others, he's done quite well.

 

Also, is there any news about Gaiman finally getting to write the rest of his Miracleman story? Looking forward to that.

[Comicopolis]

Alan Moore gets paid every-time somebody talks about him on the internet.

[Mr 9.8]

 

Also, is there any news about Gaiman finally getting to write the rest of his Miracleman story? Looking forward to that.

Are you kidding?

[bb8]

 

Also, is there any news about Gaiman finally getting to write the rest of his Miracleman story? Looking forward to that.

Are you kidding?

 

I guess nothing new, but the unpublished issues:

 

http://comicsalliance.com/miracleman-reprint-neil-gaiman-mark-buckingham-marvelman-marvel-joe-quesada/