Marvel kowtows to fan outrage - There is a "real Mandarin"

[Microchip]

I watched the film again last night on blu-ray and really liked it.

 

To each his own, I guess.

 

+1

 

I watched it for the first time and loved the Mandarin twist. It was humorous and campy, which is what this franchise is.

 

Yeah, I though Ben Kingsley was the best thing about the movie. He was the only actor putting any effort in.

 

+1 For all the praise thrown on Downey these days, he was flat in IM3, and Kingsley was great as ever. Hence his constant project schedule...

[Unca Ben]

At my age I have learned that change is inevitable and that I may not like or agree with all of it. Yet my enjoyment of this modern take on a 50 year-old mythology does not hinge upon strict adherence to age old canon.

 

In movie terms, it's about being faithful to the source material. In every other genre, the success of the movie hinges on a good translation of the story to film. The plots have already been laid out, the dialogue has already been written, just cast it and film it. Meanwhile, a comic book movie comes along, and every writer who touches it wants to be remembered as the guy who changed everything. Gimme a break.

 

Mandarin isn't stereotypical in any way. He's a hardcore imperialist. He goes against his country's globalization because he's convinced the old ways are best. Putting Mandarin in a movie isn't racist, it could carry a thoughtful political message to the Chinese viewers.

 

It was wrong to ruin the character that way. If you're indifferent about it, you're probably not a fan.

 

My first Iron Man comic was TOS#54 bought off the rack. I bought every TOS I could after that.

I'm a fan.

Especially of the Lee / Heck Mandarin from the silver age.

 

Are you a fan?

If so, of which Mandarin from which "faithful source material"?

 

a) The original '60s Lee-Heck-Colan Mandarin? (this would be my choice)

b) The Mandarin that occupied the Unicorn's dying body?

c) The Mandarin whose consciousness was transferred into the ten rings?

d) The Mandarin that transformed and occupied the body of the Yellow Claw's servant, Loc Do, who took the ten rings?

e) The "Young Mandarin transformed from the Loc Do body" that regrew his destroyed hands into dragon claws?

f) The Mandarin that was transformed, by the Heart of Darkness Orb, into a Stark Enterprises janitor named Chu?

 

...and so on. (Really, I'm not making this stuff up)

 

Once again, I don't see much difference in what Marvel Studios is doing, from what legions of comic book writers have been doing to the original characters for decades.

 

If b) through f) above is considered "source material" then I am happy that Marvel Studios deviated from it.

 

I will toss a statement right back atcha, if you're indifferent about b) through f) above, then you're probably not a fan.

 

 

[Unca Ben]

P.S. :

Mandarin isn't stereotypical in any way. He's a hardcore imperialist. He goes against his country's globalization because he's convinced the old ways are best. Putting Mandarin in a movie isn't racist, it could carry a thoughtful political message to the Chinese viewers.

 

I quite agree with you here.

[Comicopolis]

At my age I have learned that change is inevitable and that I may not like or agree with all of it. Yet my enjoyment of this modern take on a 50 year-old mythology does not hinge upon strict adherence to age old canon.

 

In movie terms, it's about being faithful to the source material. In every other genre, the success of the movie hinges on a good translation of the story to film. The plots have already been laid out, the dialogue has already been written, just cast it and film it. Meanwhile, a comic book movie comes along, and every writer who touches it wants to be remembered as the guy who changed everything. Gimme a break.

 

Mandarin isn't stereotypical in any way. He's a hardcore imperialist. He goes against his country's globalization because he's convinced the old ways are best. Putting Mandarin in a movie isn't racist, it could carry a thoughtful political message to the Chinese viewers.

 

It was wrong to ruin the character that way. If you're indifferent about it, you're probably not a fan.

 

Just don't call them alleged fans...trust me...

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said BTW.

 

Who gets to decide what a 'fan' is?

 

A fan is someone who knows and cares.

 

I don't read Swamp Thing or Hellblazer, and I know nothing about John Constantine. I liked the Keanu Reeves movie, despite it being inaccurate. I am a consumer, but I am not a fan. You might argue my ticket money is worth the same as a Hellblazer fan's ticket money, and it is, but you'd be missing out on so much more.

 

If DC puts out Hellblazer comics and merchandise, I won't buy it, I'm not a fan. A Hellblazer fan will buy the stuff, but only if he feels the movie shares his love for the material. If the movie is entertaining, I'll like it no matter what happens, but that's the only money I'll spend on this. It's in DC's best interest to cater to the person who's passionate about the material, and will pay for peripherals.

 

I'm a fan of Iron Man and Mandarin. I don't feel like the people behind the movie share my love for the source material. Am I spending for Iron Man material with this going on? Heck no, they can roll it up and stick it.

 

Which version of the Mandarin are you a fan of? The modern version or the original version? Or anything inbetween?

[Artboy99]

I watched the film again last night on blu-ray and really liked it.

 

To each his own, I guess.

 

+1

 

I watched it for the first time and loved the Mandarin twist. It was humorous and campy, which is what this franchise is.

Yeah, I though Ben Kingsley was the best thing about the movie. He was the only actor putting any effort in.

 

+1 For all the praise thrown on Downey these days, he was flat in IM3, and Kingsley was great as ever. Hence his constant project schedule...

 

Kingsley did do a great job with the material he was given. Clearly he is a solid actor.

As to the bolded comment above:

Watch IM 1. The overall presentation of the first film is a serious take on the Iron Man character. Yes it has some humorous moments, but the film is far from campy.

[Comicopolis]

I wouldn't call any of the IM films campy.

 

Unless that word has a different meaning in the US than it does in the UK.

[Bosco685]

At my age I have learned that change is inevitable and that I may not like or agree with all of it. Yet my enjoyment of this modern take on a 50 year-old mythology does not hinge upon strict adherence to age old canon.

 

In movie terms, it's about being faithful to the source material. In every other genre, the success of the movie hinges on a good translation of the story to film. The plots have already been laid out, the dialogue has already been written, just cast it and film it. Meanwhile, a comic book movie comes along, and every writer who touches it wants to be remembered as the guy who changed everything. Gimme a break.

 

Mandarin isn't stereotypical in any way. He's a hardcore imperialist. He goes against his country's globalization because he's convinced the old ways are best. Putting Mandarin in a movie isn't racist, it could carry a thoughtful political message to the Chinese viewers.

 

It was wrong to ruin the character that way. If you're indifferent about it, you're probably not a fan.

 

I didn't care for how they handled Mandarin. Changes to make a character more with the times so people can relate is one thing (Mandarin as a terroritst/anarchist fit the mold of the character, though the motivations are slightly different). When he turned out to be an actor meant to throw off Tony Stark, that seemed to disrupt what could have been an amazing showdown between two fantastic characters.

 

The Mandarin is a superb athlete with tremendous skill in the various martial arts. Through repeated practice, he has toughened all the striking surfaces of his body, especially his hands, which are covered with thick calluses. He can even split Iron Man's magnetic-beam reinforced alloy armor with repeated blows.

 

Just imagine if they had gone the route of Iron Man flying in to capture what he assumed was just some everyday terrorist, and then Mandarin lands a blow which cracks the armor without any bullets, lasers or bombs. Now that's a deadly adversary!

[Comicopolis]

At my age I have learned that change is inevitable and that I may not like or agree with all of it. Yet my enjoyment of this modern take on a 50 year-old mythology does not hinge upon strict adherence to age old canon.

 

In movie terms, it's about being faithful to the source material. In every other genre, the success of the movie hinges on a good translation of the story to film. The plots have already been laid out, the dialogue has already been written, just cast it and film it. Meanwhile, a comic book movie comes along, and every writer who touches it wants to be remembered as the guy who changed everything. Gimme a break.

 

Mandarin isn't stereotypical in any way. He's a hardcore imperialist. He goes against his country's globalization because he's convinced the old ways are best. Putting Mandarin in a movie isn't racist, it could carry a thoughtful political message to the Chinese viewers.

 

It was wrong to ruin the character that way. If you're indifferent about it, you're probably not a fan.

 

I didn't care for how they handled Mandarin. Changes to make a character more with the times so people can relate is one thing (Mandarin as a terroritst/anarchist fit the mold of the character, though the motivations are slightly different). When he turned out to be an actor meant to throw off Tony Stark, that seemed to disrupt what could have been an amazing showdown between two fantastic characters.

 

The Mandarin is a superb athlete with tremendous skill in the various martial arts. Through repeated practice, he has toughened all the striking surfaces of his body, especially his hands, which are covered with thick calluses. He can even split Iron Man's magnetic-beam reinforced alloy armor with repeated blows.

 

Just imagine if they had gone the route of Iron Man flying in to capture what he assumed was just some everyday terrorist, and then Mandarin lands a blow which cracks the armor without any bullets, lasers or bombs. Now that's a deadly adversary!

 

So - his super power is really thick callused hands.

[Bosco685]

So - his super power is really thick callused hands.

 

If that was the case, you would be the UK Superman you have always dreamed of.

 

[Comicopolis]

So - his super power is really thick callused hands.

 

If that was the case, you would be the UK Superman you have always dreamed of.

 

 

That's not my hands you're thinking about.

[Artboy99]

At my age I have learned that change is inevitable and that I may not like or agree with all of it. Yet my enjoyment of this modern take on a 50 year-old mythology does not hinge upon strict adherence to age old canon.

 

In movie terms, it's about being faithful to the source material. In every other genre, the success of the movie hinges on a good translation of the story to film. The plots have already been laid out, the dialogue has already been written, just cast it and film it. Meanwhile, a comic book movie comes along, and every writer who touches it wants to be remembered as the guy who changed everything. Gimme a break.

 

Mandarin isn't stereotypical in any way. He's a hardcore imperialist. He goes against his country's globalization because he's convinced the old ways are best. Putting Mandarin in a movie isn't racist, it could carry a thoughtful political message to the Chinese viewers.

 

It was wrong to ruin the character that way. If you're indifferent about it, you're probably not a fan.

 

I didn't care for how they handled Mandarin. Changes to make a character more with the times so people can relate is one thing (Mandarin as a terroritst/anarchist fit the mold of the character, though the motivations are slightly different). When he turned out to be an actor meant to throw off Tony Stark, that seemed to disrupt what could have been an amazing showdown between two fantastic characters.

 

The Mandarin is a superb athlete with tremendous skill in the various martial arts. Through repeated practice, he has toughened all the striking surfaces of his body, especially his hands, which are covered with thick calluses. He can even split Iron Man's magnetic-beam reinforced alloy armor with repeated blows.

 

Just imagine if they had gone the route of Iron Man flying in to capture what he assumed was just some everyday terrorist, and then Mandarin lands a blow which cracks the armor without any bullets, lasers or bombs. Now that's a deadly adversary!

 

Would have been an awesome scene.

Is a shame the writers can't come up with it. Or maybe they do and the big wig executive producers veto it.

[Bosco685]

So - his super power is really thick callused hands.

 

If that was the case, you would be the UK Superman you have always dreamed of.

 

 

That's not my hands you're thinking about.

 

[Larryw7]

Just saw Iron Man 3 on DVD last night. Hard to believe they could have screwed up a film that badly (and the Mandarin fiasco was only scratching the surface of how bad it was). It was even worse than Spider-Man 3.

 

yep

 

I actually didn't mind Ben Kingsley, I thought he was hysterical. But the movie was kinda bland. Not awful, just....

[Unca Ben]

 

The Mandarin is a superb athlete with tremendous skill in the various martial arts. Through repeated practice, he has toughened all the striking surfaces of his body, especially his hands, which are covered with thick calluses. He can even split Iron Man's magnetic-beam reinforced alloy armor with repeated blows.

 

Just imagine if they had gone the route of Iron Man flying in to capture what he assumed was just some everyday terrorist, and then Mandarin lands a blow which cracks the armor without any bullets, lasers or bombs. Now that's a deadly adversary!

That would have been very cool!

[delekkerste]

Kingsley did do a great job with the material he was given. Clearly he is a solid actor.

As to the bolded comment above:

Watch IM 1. The overall presentation of the first film is a serious take on the Iron Man character. Yes it has some humorous moments, but the film is far from campy.

 

Totally agree. To say that the franchise is supposed to be "campy" falls wide of the mark. IM 1 and 2 (and The Avengers) had humorous elements, sure. But IM 3, under the direction of Shane Black (as opposed to Favreau) was practically Austin Powers 4. I thought for a second that it might be an outrageous self-parody like the brilliant Milligan/Allred "X-Statix" series from the 2000s, but, no, it had too much stupid CGI (like we needed 50 Iron Man suits that can disassemble/reassemble on the user's person and be controlled remotely...just utterly stupid) and other boring bad movie fare to be that clever. I don't think Kingsley was particularly good or bad as the faux Mandarin; I just think he's Ben Kingsley so he's going to attract a lot of praise despite the utterly ridiculous role he was given.

 

I have no problem with Marvel updating or modifying its existing stable of characters to suit the big screen. They've done it with Spidey, Wolverine, Galactus, and so many others already. What I do have a problem with is bad writing and directing, and IM 3 was full of both. Definitely gets my vote for the worst of the major Marvel films so far.

[FineCollector]

I didn't care for how they handled Mandarin. Changes to make a character more with the times so people can relate is one thing (Mandarin as a terroritst/anarchist fit the mold of the character, though the motivations are slightly different). When he turned out to be an actor meant to throw off Tony Stark, that seemed to disrupt what could have been an amazing showdown between two fantastic characters.

 

(thumbs u

 

I started seeing Mandarin in some 80's books when I was a kid, but really got to sink my teeth into him in the 90's, Iron Man 270-275, with Fin Fang Foom. As with everything else, I backtracked. I would've otherwise hated seeing Mandarin in boots and fatigues, but knowing how respectfully they modernized Iron Man 1, I was ready to give it a shot.

 

The question remains: why turn Mandarin from a top-tier supervillain, capable of threatening our heroes on a global scale, to a sniveling actor? Simply, because people working on the movie don't know, and don't care.