Overstreet Price Guide and the 9.4's -- 10.0's...

[SW3D]

I may have touched off a firestorm of controversy over what I thought was an innocent question along with, admittedly, my overreaction to two boardies responses. I won't go into the latter... it's best to forgive and forget and just move on.

 

But going back to the journal... I obviously failed miserably to get a point across. What I really wanted to ascertain from the responses of my fellow collectors, was whether or not, like me, they were unhappy or dissatisfied or found things lacking with the current methods to determine valuations on both raw/ungraded and graded comics at 9.4 and above.

 

Using GPA and watching the moving trends based on sales figures can be a very useful tool at times... however, I feel many of us rely on it a little too much. And I have seen some sales from auction houses not registered as sales on GPA. So the data can be incomplete at times. I actually bought a CGC graded book from an auction site, and that sale never registered on GPA. I also was bidding on a comic, which I eventually lost, but for some reason, the final sale of that comic also didn't register on GPA.

 

Anyway... putting aside math formulas, crystal balls, and all the guessing game formulas many of us incorporate, I am just going to ask two questions:

 

"Would you like to see the Overstreet Price Guide future publications include price valuations of 9.4 -- 10.0 raws/ungraded?"

 

-AND-

 

"Would you like to see Overstreet publish a yearly guide solely dedicated for CGC Third Party Graded Comics?"

 

Just curious what people think.

 

Anyway... peace to you all!

 

Thanks for reading and Happy Collecting!

 

SW3D

 

See more journals by screenwriter3d

[southerncross]

I say no as the 9.2 high price is good for the guide. In the past guide listed highest price as 9.4 and a lot of dealers priced their books to that. At 9.2 it's better and if dealers did grade their books properly and priced them higher if 9.4 the market will sort it out if it gets bought or left on the shelf.

As it stands the guide is late with pricing as the dealers place their reports in around December and the books gets published in July. So the guide can sometimes be a year behind the market.

As for the higher grades 9.4,9.6,9.8 the prices are random and can a lot of the time be all over the place depending on census of a book and it's grade.

Case in point about 4 years ago I bought a sub-mariner 67 in 9.8 (68 series)

For about $200, 2 years before me another copy sold for over $400. Now a copy may only go for $100.

If the guide was constantly re-adjusting prices for higher grades it would be a logistical nightmare. The GPanaylis is better suited for that market.

But on a downside they do list separately the pedigree books in their grade and what they sell for. Having over 30 people can find out how much I paid.

As for the Auction houses not updating their sales to GP. That's just plain laziness and It can only hurt themselves and other dealers in the long run.

 

Well that's my 2 cents worth.

[MetalPSI]

I personally would like to see a Overstreet Price on CGC books. There isn't much to go on with SS books, let alone a CGC SS. What determines what a signature is worth? A "guide" would be useful in this sense.

[bagofleas]

Now that CGC has firmly established 9.4 and higher grades, I would LOVE to see Overstreet start putting values on these higher grades in raw form!

 

This would, for the most part, put an end to the speculation involved in coming up with values on these graded copies, because then you would at least have a foundation to base your graded value on.

 

I very much doubt they would EVER put out a price guide specifically for CGC graded books. It would start a firestorm of controversy that might undermine their credibility.

[southerncross]

Having prices set for SS would be a lot harder then the CGC higher grades.

Books can have one or more signatures.

And just say there are 2 silver age sought after books one with the writers sig and the other with artist sig in same grade, the market is the only way to tell which is worth more. And if one of the artist has passed away. No more SS books from him, The demand on one sig to the other book would be extreme, maybe.

And as for the Overstreet itself. It has been the foundation of this hobby for decades. And still has it's place. We just have more bells and whistles now with CGC and GPA ect.

And the last thing I want to see is the bad old days where the guide goes to 9.4 and every dealer ,collector and their mother grades and believes all books bag at time of purchase and stored are automatically nm and the dealers lazy grading just prices the books at nm price. Ok for seasoned collectors but not good for the novice.

[southerncross]

And another thing the guide is just a guide. The Overstreet price guide states it in the book. You will never get accurate prices printed in them. The market is all over the place and at the end of the day. What someone is willing to pay is what that book is worth to them. Case in point. How much would you pay for a Amazing spiderman 300 raw in 8.5, 9.0, 9.2 range ?

In Brisbane my local dealer flips them for $300 Australian currency each. He has been doing that for years when the aussie dollar was trading at time $1.10 to green back. So roughly people were paying $330 us for it.

I'm sure if you live in the states there is no way you would pay that. But the market conditions for that book were different here.

Goes back to guide is just a guide and if they were able to price higher grade CGC's the market will still dictate what they are really worth.

[surfer99]

It would be nice if there were a CGC price guide, but for reasons previously stated this just wouldn't work because people will ultimately pay what they think a book is worth regardless of what a price guide says. As imperfect as it is, GPA is really the best valuation tool at this point.

 

 

[slym2none]

I personally would like to see a Overstreet Price on CGC books. There isn't much to go on with SS books, let alone a CGC SS. What determines what a signature is worth? A "guide" would be useful in this sense.

 

I imagine a lot of people that sell CGC SS books take into consideration the CGC expenses, any facilitator expenses, any signature/sketch costs, and their time. If a SS book costs someone $125 to produce, they certainly aren't going to price it lower than that.

 

 

 

-slym

[seanfingh]

I personally would like to see a Overstreet Price on CGC books. There isn't much to go on with SS books, let alone a CGC SS. What determines what a signature is worth? A "guide" would be useful in this sense.

 

I imagine a lot of people that sell CGC SS books take into consideration the CGC expenses, any facilitator expenses, any signature/sketch costs, and their time. If a SS book costs someone $125 to produce, they certainly aren't going to price it lower than that.

 

 

 

-slym

 

But, many times when they do that, the books won't sell. The SS market is skittish and fickle. But normal market forces do have an impact. If a modern book is extremely low value in 9.4, spending $75 to get it autographed and graded is a bad move financially. Maybe it is a OO copy or sentimental to the submitter, and if so, that is great, but analyzing purely financially, it is putting lipstick on a pig.

[Brandon Shepherd]

"Would you like to see the Overstreet Price Guide future publications include price valuations of 9.4 -- 10.0 raws/ungraded?"

 

"Would you like to see Overstreet publish a yearly guide solely dedicated for CGC Third Party Graded Comics?"

 

The short: no to both questions.

 

The long:

 

I agree with the points made by Southerncross, it's only a guide and the prices will not be accurate, especially with the time frame given from which the data is collected and published.

 

With grading being subjective, this presents a challenge for raw books in particular. This can also lead to a discussion on CGC and third party grading. Not everyone trust this, as their grading is also subjective. So, not everyone will be accepting of or willing to pay for this company's opinion.

 

As for the guide dedicated to CGC, my thoughts are that the time frame will also lag in terms of collecting/analyzing the data and printing it. GPA can process data much more quickly, allowing us to track current treads as they are happening, there is also the issue of not everyone (ComicLink in particular) not participating in sharing their sales results, but we can get something of a good idea, allowing for a more informed decision.

 

Another thought I had on this is the ratio of CGC examples to slabs. CGC had certified over 2,000,000 slabs to date. Not worrying about how many of those have been cracked out or resubmitted, this is only a proverbial drop in the bucket compared to the raw books out there. Of course we have no way of knowing what the number of raw books are out there, but it's safe to say there are quite a few of them. I have only been to a few shows, one major con (Wizard World, Chicago 2011) and two small ones. The slabs were few at the small shows, Chicago was better, but far more raw. So, I would not say CGC is a small niche by any means, but this is only a portion of the so called bigger picture.

 

Taking this into consideration, I think a separate guide or publication by Overstreet would be best utilized by expanding some of the articles they have run in the yearly guides previously. Oversteet has been running an article for several years that briefly explains the how the company was founded and how the labeling system works. I think a separate publication can go onto to give examples of restored and qualified labels. A separate guide like this could be beneficial to those who are newer to this, a beginners guide so to say, breaking down the history of the labels (old style and red "Modern") and the different colors used used and some of the different notations used (pedigrees, double cover, etc.). A gallery of greats from each era (what the yearly guides already do) would be great as well.

 

In conclusion, I think in today's world, the online sources are better for "guiding" ones pricing decisions. I still get the overstreet guides, mainly for the articles and market reports reflecting on the previous year by dealers and collector's alike. I also think leaving the top grade at NM- 9.2 is best in the printed guide, raw books have a tendency to be overgraded by most of us.

 

Just my thoughts.

Brandon

[Alawson453]

No and yes. I would also like to see cgc publish a hard copy annually of the total population

report of the census. I would gladly pay $25 bucks for one comprehensive volume.

[slym2none]

I personally would like to see a Overstreet Price on CGC books. There isn't much to go on with SS books, let alone a CGC SS. What determines what a signature is worth? A "guide" would be useful in this sense.

 

I imagine a lot of people that sell CGC SS books take into consideration the CGC expenses, any facilitator expenses, any signature/sketch costs, and their time. If a SS book costs someone $125 to produce, they certainly aren't going to price it lower than that.

 

But, many times when they do that, the books won't sell. The SS market is skittish and fickle. But normal market forces do have an impact. If a modern book is extremely low value in 9.4, spending $75 to get it autographed and graded is a bad move financially. Maybe it is a OO copy or sentimental to the submitter, and if so, that is great, but analyzing purely financially, it is putting lipstick on a pig.

 

So, if a seller wants to move one, they usually take a loss?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[seanfingh]

I personally would like to see a Overstreet Price on CGC books. There isn't much to go on with SS books, let alone a CGC SS. What determines what a signature is worth? A "guide" would be useful in this sense.

 

I imagine a lot of people that sell CGC SS books take into consideration the CGC expenses, any facilitator expenses, any signature/sketch costs, and their time. If a SS book costs someone $125 to produce, they certainly aren't going to price it lower than that.

 

But, many times when they do that, the books won't sell. The SS market is skittish and fickle. But normal market forces do have an impact. If a modern book is extremely low value in 9.4, spending $75 to get it autographed and graded is a bad move financially. Maybe it is a OO copy or sentimental to the submitter, and if so, that is great, but analyzing purely financially, it is putting lipstick on a pig.

 

So, if a seller wants to move one, they usually take a loss?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Happens all the time. Before I learned the ropes, I jumped in with both feet. There are a lot of Yellow label collectors that have books from the Fingh Oops Collection.

[slym2none]

Heh... thanks for sharing your wisdom.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Kevin.J]

I personally would like to see a Overstreet Price on CGC books. There isn't much to go on with SS books, let alone a CGC SS. What determines what a signature is worth? A "guide" would be useful in this sense.

 

I imagine a lot of people that sell CGC SS books take into consideration the CGC expenses, any facilitator expenses, any signature/sketch costs, and their time. If a SS book costs someone $125 to produce, they certainly aren't going to price it lower than that.

 

But, many times when they do that, the books won't sell. The SS market is skittish and fickle. But normal market forces do have an impact. If a modern book is extremely low value in 9.4, spending $75 to get it autographed and graded is a bad move financially. Maybe it is a OO copy or sentimental to the submitter, and if so, that is great, but analyzing purely financially, it is putting lipstick on a pig.

 

So, if a seller wants to move one, they usually take a loss?

 

 

 

-slym

 

Happens all the time. Before I learned the ropes, I jumped in with both feet. There are a lot of Yellow label collectors that have books from the Fingh Oops Collection.

 

I have loads of the Fingh Oops pedigree, he normally makes me wear the lipstick and squeal before he will sell them to me though

[mzhammer]

Yes. I would like to see both!

[SW3D]

So would I, but it seems like the place is divided with some not caring for either. Go figure.

 

I like Overstreet... grew up on it. And seeing two guides would be an immense help... in my opinion.

 

SW3D

[MetalPSI]

I don't flip books and have no intention of it, unless I get an offer I cannot refuse, or it's the same issue, but with more qualities I am looking for.

 

So having a signature of my favorite artist/inker/writer is mostly all sentimental value, where I would have to agree with seanfingh. I do believe that buying signatures purely for economical reasons is a risky venture.

 

I really don't understand the concept of getting a signature or a SS copy for financial gain.

 

I have always looked at comics as art. And I have always looked at art as, "Someone will only pay what they feel it is worth to them." Which in my mind is what art is all about.

 

I could never be an artist and not just because I have no talent. I would probably never sell anything I create.

[SW3D]

I generally don't flip books either, but in the last few months, in order to generate some cash I made the hard decision to sell three of my prized possessions to avoid using credit cards. Why? Because there are three other comics which have been announced on different auction houses that I so desperately want to add to my collection that are going to cost quite a bit collectively. And using Overstreet, GPA, Market Trends, The Greater Fool Theory, and common sense has been very helpful in getting the "right price" for the comics I did sell. I am hoping the cash I generated from these sales will be enough to buy the soon to be auctioned items I want.

 

But I honestly believe there is room for two price guides:

 

1. On Overstreet Raw Guide with valuations on comics from 2.0 - 10.0.

 

-AND-

 

2. An Overstreet Graded Guide (for CGC, PGX, and other third party grading companies) with valuations from 2.0 to 10.0.

 

I would buy both without question. And I would still use and subscribe to GPA.

 

Obviously the raw guide would be larger and more extensive since there are many comic titles which have yet to enter third party grading censes.

 

I say the more resources for consults and referencing to help you make a more intelligent decision the better.

 

SW3D

 

 

[etanick]

the problem with the guide since day one (1970) is the inability to incorporate supplies, demands and human stupidity. Yes I wrote human stupidity.

 

there is nothing that can fix it

 

now with GPA, it is a decent measurement of what someone is WILLING to pay....not a perfect answer to true demands and supplies also.

 

the comic book hobby like most hobbies is GREATLY INEFFICIENT. For the math geek out there like me, you know what I mean. I rather not type a wall of text about this but let use this example.

 

let say there is a X-men 94 CGC 9.4 up for auction. Is the final hammer the true "value" of that book? what if someone that really want it and can afford it and could bid it higher didn't know the book was up for auction? or was occupied doing something else...yes, there are people with lives that don't sit and watch auctions so they may be not be aware. Also if I was bidding on that book and didn't win it, it is by no means I am willing to pay the same price for the next same graded book. Eye appeals or personal finance will dictate the next time.

 

comic valuation is a fluid moving market that is impossible to quantify.