HERITAGE/CAGE MARVEL MYSTERY #2-WAS VF-, NOW VF/NM

[Guest]

my sentiments exactly

[aardvark88]

I always thought that in the long run, collectors would revert to the old ways of buying vintage, raw comics to complete their runs & actually READing & enjoying the storylines. Have we all lost our innocence & turned to the Darth-side of Cgc or nothing for our collections?

Are our own grading skills so weak, that we HAVE to have a 3rd party tell us a book is vfnm or nm? I dare say, we CAN grade more consistently between decades than what Cgc has shown us to date.

[Guest]

Time will tell if another company has the stones to enter the fray! Its A LOT harder to grade a comic book than it is to grade a Baseball card so you probably wont get as many "questionable" grading services.

[hammer-migration]

It's not that as much as it is a basic need of 99% of the population.....the urge to GAMBLE!!!!!! Submission is Lotto. That's the way it was set up, touted, in the formative hyping year during the days of Manning (who in my estimation may still be lurking in the Heritage catacombs). Folks love gambling. Buy something for $1.00 in hopes that it's worth $10.00. Baseball card collectors have unopened packs. $2.00 for a pack that may contain a special card with a piece of Babe Ruth's cut off uniform worth $1,000!!!! They also have a grading service so when they pull some of these VERY COMMON rookie cards of some half-@$$ed player out of one of their packs and submit it, MAYBE they'll be lucky enough to get a '10', and although the card looks IDENTICAL, it will be worth $25,000 instead of $2.50!!!! People LOVE submitting comics bought raw. There's always the chance that the NM they bought will grade 9.8 and instead of having a beautiful 9.4 or 9.6 worth $3,000, they'll have a 9.8 worth $19,115!! EVEN IF THE 9.4 or 9.6 LOOKS BETTER THAN THE 9.8. The 9.8 will be worth $16,000 more because it has a label that SAYS it is and there's a buyer who took the "show" to heart and won't even LOOK at the book!!!!

What collectors DON'T realize sometime is that the NUMBERS, the QUANTITIES of 9s and 10s; 96s and 98s, 9.6s to 10.0s MUST BE CAREFULLY CONTROLLED or there will be TOO many. TOO many, the value DROPS.

Keith Contarino is a hobby GENIUS. He and Sean (Rob Roter is no slouch either). Keith wrote an article in an old CBM. He said something to the effect that, if there WERE ever a grading service established (he said this about 10 years ago), even though MANY claim to have NM early Marvels, the actual number of NM issues ASSESSED and bestowed by the service would be extremely minimal. Get this: He estimated no more than 5 or 6 copies of AF15 would be given NM or better, only a small handfull of FF1s graded similarly, and only sligthly more Spiderman 1s than those two issues. THIS, at a time when estimates of NM copies on these books ran into the dozens range.

[ninanina]

I never realized.

 

Never sent in a book to get graded and I doubt I ever will. This whole thing with CGC has made me a very collector. There are so many different ways to grade now it's a mess. That's what it is - a BIG MESS. There is no consistency and standards seem to change from year to year. Don't know anymore what I got.

 

The innocence hopefully will come back into collecting like Odin88 said in his reply. I for one have "changed the channel" at least until this whole mess is cleaned up, if it'll ever get cleaned up.

 

[hammer-migration]

Why be disgruntled if you love your hobby? Remember Ebay? Find a seller you're happy with, testing with SMALL purchases first. If you're concerned with alteration, there's about 1000 capable paper, art, bible, book, etc., restorers listed on websites who will accept paper items for alteration analysis. And then if you're happy, stick with your favorite sellers who have done right by you. That's the way you shop for food, clothes, jewelry, etc., isn't it? In pre-CGC days, Sue Ciccone did a thriving business in identifying restoration on books sent to her for analysis. She studied with Sarill. Think she's any less capable then other comic conservationists? Matt Wilson learned from one of the BEST. His brother. I'm sure that HE would offer a similar service, give a book the once over for alterative procedures. They even issue a PAPER to which a photo could be notarized and attached with little effort.

[comicwiz]

The idea is to make MONEY, as much of it as possible. All the employees have to make the "Capo" enough money so he can continue to pay for the overhead, including their paychecks. Within that structure, the employees are allowed to make themselves as much as possible as long as they don't raise eyebrows (like with these latest auctions), and a piece is kicked back, "upstairs".

Welcome to the wonderful world of Auction Houses and Grading Services! This is the way it's been for hundreds of years in the finest of all auction houses.

 

Hey hammer, where I come from, this is called "collusion"!! Pretty serious stuff too!!! I'm not one to take an alarmist approach, but from where I'm standing, sounds like CGC's got some explaining to do, and quick

[PovertyRow]

Find a seller you're happy with, testing with SMALL purchases first.

 

Yep. The most basic thing to do is often the most effective. I have been tired of wating for nearby conventions and bought a few pre-code horrors from ebay. I have been very pleased with the results and I swear I have paid 50%-80% of guide. Now were I hit to a big convention I may find these books at guide or more.

 

So I am really going to start ebaying more and starting with the few I have bought from successfully. My latest was a Beware 8 I received today. Cost me 51.99 (including shipping). I would have graded it F- but it is 90 in F and 30 in G - so I feel I got a real bargain - and it is a really beautiful book.

 

Just got the High Bid on a Night Of Mystery (Avon 1-shot) in F/F- for 109.49 (including shipping). In F it is guided at $129.

 

But the Avon 1-shots usually go for a bit of a premium at shows so even if it comes thourgh at a F-, I will still be very happy.

 

Similarly on books such as Weird Horrors #4 - paid grand total of 50.77. Book looked better than Fine in the scans and I would give it an easy VF-. Guide in Fine? 90.00. VF? 159. Either way, a real bargain and a great cover of Death, complete with sycle, hauling some poor guy away!

 

So careful ebay shopping - with initial first bids/analysis then continuing with the good sellers is the way to go. At least for a pre-code horror guy!

[ninanina]

Not disgruntled, Hammer - Confused. Sometimes I feel I can't grade because of the inconsistencies in the hobby. This thread and you're earlier comments brought them to light and only fuels my confusion. It's still a great hobby and I do have several sources for comics. So, I know where to go. All I can do is ride the wave of confusion I suppose, until it settles down. And I know it will eventually. Have full intentions of enjoying myself in the meantime.

 

CGC has done some positive things for the market, it certainly hasn't all been bad. But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This post that Dungeon started and the comments just made me remember that and that's all I'm saying.

[ablue]

CGC has done some positive things for the market, it certainly hasn't all been bad. But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This post that Dungeon started and the comments just made me remember that and that's all I'm saying.

 

 

I told you all........ CGC is nothing but a cash grab!

[whatthe-migration]

Everyone seems to point the finger at CGC. What about Heritage? A statement from them clearing up this matter is needed here.

[OldGuy]

While I in no way am trying to defend Heritage, I think the issue here is the fact that CGC is supposed to be impartial. Heritage has never made a claim of impartiality, but CGC has built a business on it.

 

We all know that Heritage only cares about making money and will screw whoever they have to in order to do it. On the other hand CGC also wants to make money, but they have chosen to base their money-making methods on building trust with their clients. This incident does not help build trust.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

bump

[sborock]

See our reply on this thread:

 

heritage/cage marvel mystery 33 was CGC 8.0, now CGC 9.2

[read_em-migration]

bump

[Crackandpresstoan11]

bump*

[Gorgo]

This incident does not help build trust.

 

Trust has indeed been damaged here.

[Bugaboo-migration]

Bump.

[perl-migration]

What exactly is this "bump"?

[Rickdogg]

He's basically pushing this thread back up for others to read