LCS Using eBay as a Price Guide

[dupont2005]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

I'm assuming the $2 was an example, and an exaggerated one at that, and not a 'carved in stone' suggestion of magnitude of discount. He could have said $3, or $4, or... or...

 

It was simply an illustration of the overall point of having cash flow from inventory vs no cash flow.

 

To put this line in real world terms: Wal-Mart vs. JCPenney.

 

Wal-Mart turns over inventory at an extraordinary rate. Penney's is drowning in months old inventory.

 

Wal-Mart can use the money they make from their inventory turnover for more purchases and bonuses. Penney's is drowning in quicksand, partly due to their inability to turnover inventory.

 

Successful comic shops will turn over their back stock, shops going down in flames will be sitting on tons of boxes of unpriced and unorganized books.

Or how about the Macy's jewelery counter and Tiffany's? Which turns over more product, and which will likely still be here in 100 years?

[joecgcmaniac]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

I'm assuming the $2 was an example, and an exaggerated one at that, and not a 'carved in stone' suggestion of magnitude of discount. He could have said $3, or $4, or... or...

 

It was simply an illustration of the overall point of having cash flow from inventory vs no cash flow.

 

To put this line in real world terms: Wal-Mart vs. JCPenney.

 

Wal-Mart turns over inventory at an extraordinary rate. Penney's is drowning in months old inventory.

 

Wal-Mart can use the money they make from their inventory turnover for more purchases and bonuses. Penney's is drowning in quicksand, partly due to their inability to turnover inventory.

 

Successful comic shops will turn over their back stock, shops going down in flames will be sitting on tons of boxes of unpriced and unorganized books.

Or how about the Macy's jewelery counter and Tiffany's? Which turns over more product, and which will likely still be here in 100 years?

 

That example doesn't work here. Do you really think those stores are sitting on tons of unsold jewelry? They're not. They usually only keep a couple "back-ups" of each piece at any given time. They don't have tons of the jewelry sitting in the backroom for months on end. As for turning over more product, Macy's might outsell Tiffany by piece count, by in dollar amounts, Tiffany blows Macy's out of the water for jewelry.

 

The example doesn't work because neither company will sit on "dead" product forever like a comic shop would. When a jewelry items sits or doesn't sell as well over a time period, it gets marked down and clearanced out to make room for another piece of jewelry that will sell. That's the fundamental difference here. Almost all other retail stores get rid of items that are just collecting dust, whereas comic shops bring more dead product into their store almost weekly.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

And here is one of the exceptions that makes the rule: if those back issues are BAIT, and their sole function is to get eyeballs into the store that wouldn't normally come in, that is a legitimate retail strategy. Just like having a copy of Fantasy #15 in the display case, priced at a crazy price. It's not there to sell...it's there as bait. That's a legitimate exception, and there's nothing wrong with that....provided the OTHER merchandise actually sells.

 

Sometimes. "Bait" or "museum books" can cut both ways. They may serve as a draw to get customers in the door, but they can also be a turnoff depending on the craziness of the price point. If I walk into a shop, or up to a booth at a show, and see keys priced at a multiple of the going rate I generally don't bother to dig much further. If a $100 wall book is priced at $300 it's reasonable to expect the rest of the back issues, or at least the rest of the good back issues, to follow suit. On the other hand, an AF 15 on the wall can legitimize a dealer or store, and show that they have at least some interesting things to offer a serious back issue collector. Pricing a big key at a bit over market value probably gets the best of both worlds. Pricing it at double likely turns off as many serious buyers as it brings through the doors.

 

By "crazy", I meant "10%-20% over current GPA." High enough to not be claimed instantly, but not too high that it creates a poor impression of general overpricing. Not a 3.0 priced at $25,000, for example.

 

I forget that some people have different definitions of the word "crazy."

[dupont2005]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

I'm assuming the $2 was an example, and an exaggerated one at that, and not a 'carved in stone' suggestion of magnitude of discount. He could have said $3, or $4, or... or...

 

It was simply an illustration of the overall point of having cash flow from inventory vs no cash flow.

 

To put this line in real world terms: Wal-Mart vs. JCPenney.

 

Wal-Mart turns over inventory at an extraordinary rate. Penney's is drowning in months old inventory.

 

Wal-Mart can use the money they make from their inventory turnover for more purchases and bonuses. Penney's is drowning in quicksand, partly due to their inability to turnover inventory.

 

Successful comic shops will turn over their back stock, shops going down in flames will be sitting on tons of boxes of unpriced and unorganized books.

Or how about the Macy's jewelery counter and Tiffany's? Which turns over more product, and which will likely still be here in 100 years?

 

That example doesn't work here. Do you really think those stores are sitting on tons of unsold jewelry?

Tiffany's? Yeah, I do. They hoard high end gems the way comic collectors hoard keys, but they're much better at it. They've had exclusive rights to certain rare gems at one point.

http://robbreport.com/Jewelry/Big-Blue

[dupont2005]

 

And here is one of the exceptions that makes the rule: if those back issues are BAIT, and their sole function is to get eyeballs into the store that wouldn't normally come in, that is a legitimate retail strategy. Just like having a copy of Fantasy #15 in the display case, priced at a crazy price. It's not there to sell...it's there as bait. That's a legitimate exception, and there's nothing wrong with that....provided the OTHER merchandise actually sells.

 

Sometimes. "Bait" or "museum books" can cut both ways. They may serve as a draw to get customers in the door, but they can also be a turnoff depending on the craziness of the price point. If I walk into a shop, or up to a booth at a show, and see keys priced at a multiple of the going rate I generally don't bother to dig much further. If a $100 wall book is priced at $300 it's reasonable to expect the rest of the back issues, or at least the rest of the good back issues, to follow suit. On the other hand, an AF 15 on the wall can legitimize a dealer or store, and show that they have at least some interesting things to offer a serious back issue collector. Pricing a big key at a bit over market value probably gets the best of both worlds. Pricing it at double likely turns off as many serious buyers as it brings through the doors.

 

By "crazy", I meant "10%-20% over current GPA." High enough to not be claimed instantly, but not too high that it creates a poor impression of general overpricing. Not a 3.0 priced at $25,000, for example.

 

I forget that some people have different definitions of the word "crazy."

20% over GPA at a comic shop doesn't seem crazy to me. It's high enough that an educated buyer isn't going to buy at that price, but they may be willing to go in and make an offer. I have a feeling the kind of people that pay sticker price for wall comics in an LCS aren't the savviest of comic shoppers, and that's what the LCS owner is banking on finding.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

 

Exact is GOOD.

 

And who said anything about a "stack"? The original sample was THREE books, which doesn't a stack make.

 

And "$20 books for $2 each" wasn't my suggestion...it was Tony S'.

 

But the point remains: Is that book a legitimate $20 book on eBay? (Answer for the original example: no, not now.)

 

If it's not, what IS it, and what is the average price it would take to sell all six copies that the retailer had? (About $12/copy. Some will sell for more, and as supply increases, demand decreases, and price goes down, so some will sell for less.)

 

And if it's an avg of $12 for all six, and it costs roughly $7 to do all the work necessary to make that $12, what do you have? About $5/book, which I suspect the buyer would have been happy to pay.

 

And that doesn't even include the fact that the buyer was willing to buy THREE copies, and selling three copies for $5/ea would have prevented all that work to make that same $5, labor that can then be diverted to more productive endeavors.

 

$5/ea for three copies, with almost no time or effort? Or $5/ea for six copies, with a couple hours worth of time and effort into it? Which has more value?

 

But at the end of the day, if the seller has a buyer who wants to pay $2, and the seller paid 25 cents for it, that $2 is real, actual money, which can be put back to work...and the stuff hasn't sold for years...sell it.

 

Unsold eBay listings don't pay the rent.

Except it wouldn't cost $12 to sell a $20 comic.

 

One more time: the comic we are discussing (Alias #1) is no longer a $20 book at the current time.

 

And...I didn't say it would cost $12...I said it would cost about $7. $12 is the average pricepoint at which I believe, under CURRENT market conditions, the store could sell all 6.

 

I've really laid all this out already.

 

\Shipping falls on the buyer, he should have plenty of packaging materials laying around, and his employees are paid hourly. They're not getting paid piece work. When they aren't doing one thing, have them do another thing. That thing could be listing the comic, packaging the comic, dropping the comic off at the post office. Yeah, he's getting paid to do it, but the alternative is he's getting paid to do nothing, and it would cost the shop owner the exact same to sell the comic for $20 as it would to sell it for $5.

 

I already answered every one of these points. Please, scroll back and you'll find my breakdowns for all of it. I really don't want to be rude, but if I took the trouble to lay it all out, it's not outside of reason to expect someone to read that before attempting to address the same points again.

[joecgcmaniac]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

I'm assuming the $2 was an example, and an exaggerated one at that, and not a 'carved in stone' suggestion of magnitude of discount. He could have said $3, or $4, or... or...

 

It was simply an illustration of the overall point of having cash flow from inventory vs no cash flow.

 

To put this line in real world terms: Wal-Mart vs. JCPenney.

 

Wal-Mart turns over inventory at an extraordinary rate. Penney's is drowning in months old inventory.

 

Wal-Mart can use the money they make from their inventory turnover for more purchases and bonuses. Penney's is drowning in quicksand, partly due to their inability to turnover inventory.

 

Successful comic shops will turn over their back stock, shops going down in flames will be sitting on tons of boxes of unpriced and unorganized books.

Or how about the Macy's jewelery counter and Tiffany's? Which turns over more product, and which will likely still be here in 100 years?

 

That example doesn't work here. Do you really think those stores are sitting on tons of unsold jewelry?

Tiffany's? Yeah, I do. They hoard high end gems the way comic collectors hoard keys, but they're much better at it. They've had exclusive rights to certain rare gems at one point.

http://robbreport.com/Jewelry/Big-Blue

 

The difference being, they don't HAVE to sell what they're sitting on to stay in business. Most comic shops? They do. That's why that example doesn't work. Most people think they "need" jewelry and diamonds, but they don't. There is a very small niche market of people that think they "need" back issues, even thought they really don't. Almost everyone at one time or another is going to buy at least one high end piece of jewelry in their life. Comics? Not so much anymore. Hence, why jewelry stores can sit on inventory that almost no other business could.

[dupont2005]

You said the average rate was $18, forgive me for rounding that up to $20. You're speculating on market saturation having any effect on the comic.

[joecgcmaniac]

I thought he said the average price would probably be $12.

[dupont2005]

 

The difference being, they don't HAVE to sell what they're sitting on to stay in business. Most comic shops? They do.

Obviously that guy didn't have to sell that comic. From what I've heard from a handful of comic shop owners is that the new stock is what keeps them in business. Of course none of the guys I've heard that from are the kind of comic dealer to have high grade slabbed Incredible Hulk #1's in their inventory, but we're talking about a modern in a back issue bin here.

[dupont2005]

I thought he said the average price would probably be $12.

He did say that, arguing that market saturation would drop the value. He also said what the actual realized selling prices were on eBay. And he's right, many are selling for under $20. I don't know for exactly how much since they're best offers, but here's a recent sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALIAS-1-1st-JESSICA-JONES-NM-MT-UNREAD-/151168429620?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2332572e34&nma=true&si=Fmo5RiLg8JGqkFFC0YGEVszhaMU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[october]

Here's something to platform off of DG's post: never, and I mean NEVER, EVER have merchandise out of the reach of customers, unless you have absolutely no intention of selling it.

 

House of Secrets in Burbank is a CLASSIC example of this: they have back issues hanging on the wall literally up to the ceiling. A buyer who is interested in one of those books on the top row has to bother a clerk (and believe me...many, many people don't want to bother just to LOOK, especially if the store is busy...and they never will again if they get even a WHIFF of the clerk being put out.)

 

If the store is busy, and it sometimes is, and I want that Superbook #237, but I have to wait for a clerk to be free, and then ask him to grab a ladder, and then have him hand me the book, and then it's not in the condition I want, and then he has to put it back? And then REPEAT this process??

 

FORGET it.

 

Anything out of reach of customers should be examples that are easily visible even at height (like posters for which condition isn't a factor), or store fixtures or items that aren't for sale (like store artwork.)

 

Never, ever ever, ever make a customer have to ask for help. If you must, keep the "expensive stuff" in a display case, and make the staff man that display case the second someone shows any interest in it. If they ask to see every single item in that display case, do it: it's not skin off the clerk's neck. Never, ever, ever show even a whiff of "being put out", even if the customer buys nothing...because you never know when a customer is just comparing and making a decision. If you make it difficult on that customer in any way, they will simply take their money elsewhere.

 

This thread should be renamed "101 Ways To Run A Successful Comic Shop"

 

 

Excellent point. It doesn't apply to me because I have FORCED myself not to care, but it has taken literally years of buying back issues to get to that point. The average buyer won't bother to ask to see a single wall book, let alone many, if they aren't within easy reach of the customer or the clerk. I have several shops in my area that have to fish around for a pole, then grab the book off the wall, then put it back on the pole and maneuver the comic back into position if I don't want it. It's a fantastic theft deterrent. It's also a fantastic sale deterrent.

 

That's bad, but the worst....the absolute, freaking worst....are the back issue boxes out on the floor that the owner won't let me go through because they aren't priced. Seriously? I am a buyer, you are a seller, there are boxes on the retail floor that have likely been sitting there for years/decades, but I can't go through them because the owner might have to take ten minutes to price what I choose? The absolute height of laziness and bad retailing, and I take perverse satisfaction in seeing those locations go belly up.

[joecgcmaniac]

I thought he said the average price would probably be $12.

He did say that, arguing that market saturation would drop the value. He also said what the actual realized selling prices were on eBay. And he's right, many are selling for under $20. I don't know for exactly how much since they're best offers, but here's a recent sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALIAS-1-1st-JESSICA-JONES-NM-MT-UNREAD-/151168429620?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2332572e34&nma=true&si=Fmo5RiLg8JGqkFFC0YGEVszhaMU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

And like he also said, there are multiple BIN's for far less than that price. Hence, the average price.

[dupont2005]

That's bad, but the worst....the absolute, freaking worst....are the back issue boxes out on the floor that the owner won't let me go through because they aren't priced. Seriously? I am a buyer, you are a seller, there are boxes on the retail floor that have likely been sitting there for years/decades, but I can't go through them because the owner might have to take ten minutes to price what I choose? The absolute height of laziness and bad retailing, and I take perverse satisfaction in seeing those locations go belly up.

That is bad business. And it's not like comic retailing is busy work five days out of the week. Price your back stock on Monday's when nobody is in the store, one longbox at a time. Don't add more inventory until you've priced what you have. DOn't have product on the floor that customers aren't allowed to buy. If it's Wednesday or FCBD and the place is swamped I can understand an understaffed store not being willing to give a customer the amount of time he deserves simply out of necessity. I've been ushered in and out of a store on a busy day, it happens. From what I can tell though a lot of the time running a comic shop is super laid back and the owner/workers are watching TV, playing board games, and reading comics when I come in. If that's the case they had better have all their inventory priced and alphabetized.

[dupont2005]

I thought he said the average price would probably be $12.

He did say that, arguing that market saturation would drop the value. He also said what the actual realized selling prices were on eBay. And he's right, many are selling for under $20. I don't know for exactly how much since they're best offers, but here's a recent sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALIAS-1-1st-JESSICA-JONES-NM-MT-UNREAD-/151168429620?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2332572e34&nma=true&si=Fmo5RiLg8JGqkFFC0YGEVszhaMU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

And like he also said, there are multiple BIN's for far less than that price. Hence, the average price.

Yeah, here's three for a dollar. Maybe the angry buyer can buy all three of these.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alias-2010-Marvels-Greatest-Comics-1-VF-NM-CHU-Black-Friday-/141129382406?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item20dbf77a06

[RockMyAmadeus]

I thought he said the average price would probably be $12.

He did say that, arguing that market saturation would drop the value. He also said what the actual realized selling prices were on eBay. And he's right, many are selling for under $20. I don't know for exactly how much since they're best offers, but here's a recent sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALIAS-1-1st-JESSICA-JONES-NM-MT-UNREAD-/151168429620?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2332572e34&nma=true&si=Fmo5RiLg8JGqkFFC0YGEVszhaMU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

And like he also said, there are multiple BIN's for far less than that price. Hence, the average price.

Yeah, here's three for a dollar. Maybe the angry buyer can buy all three of these.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alias-2010-Marvels-Greatest-Comics-1-VF-NM-CHU-Black-Friday-/141129382406?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item20dbf77a06

 

Not the book we're talking about.

[dupont2005]

I thought that's what the OP said, whatever

[RockMyAmadeus]

I thought he said the average price would probably be $12.

He did say that, arguing that market saturation would drop the value. He also said what the actual realized selling prices were on eBay. And he's right, many are selling for under $20. I don't know for exactly how much since they're best offers, but here's a recent sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALIAS-1-1st-JESSICA-JONES-NM-MT-UNREAD-/151168429620?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2332572e34&nma=true&si=Fmo5RiLg8JGqkFFC0YGEVszhaMU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Here's a recent sale:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alias-1-/291022902063?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item43c251132f

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

You said the average rate was $18, forgive me for rounding that up to $20. You're speculating on market saturation having any effect on the comic.

 

You're confusing numbers.

 

I'll assume you mean "the average price to sell all six copies." I said that the price that the seller would likely, at this moment in time, be able to sell all six copies that we know they have, would be about $12, average, to take advantage of the current market.

 

This is supposition. It is educated supposition, but it is supposition all the same. What DO we know? If this seller listed all six copies for a BIN of $20, they wouldn't sell, because there are CHEAPER copies that are not selling right now. There is no speculation on market saturation; we can see it with our own eyes, with multiple copies BIN priced between $16 and $19 sitting unsold.

 

If they listed all six copies at a BIN of $15, they would probably sell 2-3 copies, but not all six. If they wanted to sell all six, the average price would probably have to be about $12, and no more. Of that $12, $7 would be spent in labor and materials costs to get the item from the store into the hands of the buyer.

 

In other words, they would net $5, and have spent money on labor that could have been used elsewhere, which is probably exactly what the OP would have paid.

 

I do not know where you got the $18 figure, outside of my speculation many posts back that the last 10 days has averaged $18/copy (because we don't know what the best offer sales were.)

[Tony S]

This thread used to be interesting, until it turned into RMA's own personal soapbox about how comic book stores should operate. Since he knows so much, maybe he should open one. Given that he'll be selling everything cheap, I'll be a customer

 

Rock On, Amadeus...

 

A few brief points though:

 

Yes, employees do have free time. I begin to think there aren't too many managers on this thread either.

 

People on selling on eBay charge for shipping. If shipping is "free" it's not really. It's built into the price

 

The fundamental flaw in a few people's logic posting up is that the person wanting to buy multiple copies of the just now hot book represent the only chance the LCS has of ever selling said books. That buyer/flipper is not the only chance they have. The buyer/flipper is wanting to purchase multiple copies BECAUSE it's a hot book and they got there first. There will be other opportunities. In store most likely, online if need be.

 

Believe it or not, businesses really do sell stuff for what it is worth to the buyer, not what it costs them to make/acquire it. If they can sell their products for more than it costs them, they make money. If they can sell it for lots more than it costs them, they make lots of money. If buyers won't pay what it costs them, they go out of business. What I've said above just restates a universally accepted truth - Something is worth only what it is worth to the buyer.

 

The retail landscape is littered with the corpses of businesses that were able to sell plenty of product - but not a price that covered their expenses. Circuit City for instance. There used to be about 200 manufacturers of Hard Disk drives for computers. Now there are three. The other 197 could not manufacture HD's cheaply enough, though a number of them shipped lots of product

 

Then there are businesses that are able to sell their stuff for much, much more than it costs them - and more than their competitors can charge - because they have created a "mystique" about their brand. Apple, Nike, Rolex

 

Last, there are businesses that can charge basically what they want as they have no effective competition. CGC. Your local utility companies. Microsoft on the Windows operating system.