LCS Using eBay as a Price Guide

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

"Reasonably priced" back issues do not pay the rent. Sales do.

 

This makes no sense.

 

That's because you don't understand what it means.

 

If you sell a "reasonably priced back issue", it's called a sale.

 

 

I think you're on to something....

 

I think what you meant to say is "Back issues don't pay the rent, New Comics do"

 

Nope. I said what I meant. Think about it for a while, it might come to you. Here's a hint: quotation marks have meaning.

 

 

 

[500Club]

 

"Reasonably priced" back issues do not pay the rent. Sales do.

 

This makes no sense.

 

That's because you don't understand what it means.

 

If you sell a "reasonably priced back issue", it's called a sale.

 

 

I think you're on to something....

 

I think what you meant to say is "Back issues don't pay the rent, New Comics do"

 

Nope. I said what I meant. Think about it for a while, it might come to you. Here's a hint: quotation marks have meaning.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

The guy I buy from, and have since 1986, says it best:

"If I can make a deal with a customer that makes him happy, and I still make enough profit that it's worth it to me, then that's a great deal."

 

 

[Tony S]

A few brief points though:

 

Yes, employees do have free time. I begin to think there aren't too many managers on this thread either.

 

When I was a project manager, working under contract for Federated Dept. Stores (Macy*s, Bloomingdales), my independent contractors (Journeyman and Apprentice carpenters) never had "free time", except during their breaks. And any worker that was standing around with "free time" was quickly told to get to work.

 

Employees are not paid to have "free time." That comic store clerks DO "stand around" with "free time" is yet another symptom of poor management.

 

So, again, simply assuming employees have "free time" to package an item, especially when it is not a normal situation, is an assumption you simply cannot make.

 

People on selling on eBay charge for shipping. If shipping is "free" it's not really. It's built into the price

 

Don't know what this refers to, but if shipping is free, that means this particular example...Alias #1...is in even worse shape. Media Mail for one book is a minimum of about $3, materials and postage included, and if you can't ship MM, First Class is the cheapest...and since it goes by the ounce (and can't be over 13 ounces) and Alias #1 weighs approximately 5 ounces, that means there will be little to no packaging...and the book will likely be destroyed.

 

And since Alias #1 is currently a "$15 on eBay or less" book, and labor and packing costs are around $7, and the cheapest postage (if you can) would be $2.53...then you're looking at 74 cents for the Paypal fee, $1.20 (at best) for the FVF...and at least 1/2 of work by SOMEONE...

 

...and you've made a grand total of $3.53.

 

The numbers just don't lie.

 

Since cover price was $2.95, the seller made a whopping 58 cents more, and spent time better spent elsewhere, than he would have gotten had he simply sold three copies for cover price to the buyer.

 

And that's why comic stores go out of business.

 

The fundamental flaw in a few people's logic posting up is that the person wanting to buy multiple copies of the just now hot book represent the only chance the LCS has of ever selling said books. That buyer/flipper is not the only chance they have. The buyer/flipper is wanting to purchase multiple copies BECAUSE it's a hot book and they got there first. There will be other opportunities. In store most likely, online if need be.

 

No one said that at all. The fact is, however, that this particular book...Alias #1...had been "hot" for *at least* TWO WEEKS before the OP's experience (assuming he posted the same or next day after his experience)...and yet, no one beside the OP had bothered to go into the store and look for that particular book, and the seller had no clue it was "hot" UNTIL someone did their work for them.

 

Two weeks these days can sometimes represent the entire cycle for a particular "hot" book.

 

The buyer/flipper was, in this case, the only chance they had. Had this particular buyer/flipper NOT come in, they would have had no idea, and could very easily missed the entire hot/cool cycle. "Got there first"...? Not hardly.

 

Believe it or not, businesses really do sell stuff for what it is worth to the buyer, not what it costs them to make/acquire it.

 

Sorry, but that's not how retail business works. That's how COLLECTIBLES "works", and that is why all but a very, very few are ever really successful in the comics retail business.

 

Businesses sell things based on what it costs...they do not sell them for "what they think a buyer will pay for them." This is proven by the fact that I can't walk up to my local Target cashier and say "hey, this pair of pants is $20, but I'm only willing to pay $12, because that's what it's worth to me. Here's your cash!"

 

And then store security is quickly called.

 

It's also why Target can't take "the latest hot item" and mark it UP. In fact, the vast majority of "hot items" are specifically contracted between manufacturers and retailers to NOT sell them for more than the contracted price.

 

That's also why I can't take the latest copy of Book X #827 and say "I know this has a cover price of $3.99, but it's only worth 75 cents to me, so here you go."

 

Yes, I know that doesn't work in reverse (and retailers frequently price "hot" books ABOVE cover), but they still base prices on what it cost them to obtain...not what they imagine it might be worth to someone else.

 

Because fundamentally, no one knows what something is worth to everyone else. You can guess, but you don't really know. What you DO know is what it cost you to acquire it, and you price it according to what it cost you and what YOU think it might be worth. If you're wrong, and you price too high, you can lower the price. If you're wrong, and you price too low....you'll never know.

 

But if you price based on what it cost you, and you know your market well (as you should), then you will always have a good idea about what it is really worth at the retail level.

 

If they can sell their products for more than it costs them, they make money. If they can sell it for lots more than it costs them, they make lots of money. If buyers won't pay what it costs them, they go out of business. What I've said above just restates a universally accepted truth - Something is worth only what it is worth to the buyer.

 

And yet, millions of businesses the world over, big and small, have the same prices for identical merchandise, regardless of what the buyer may think it's worth. And if I can't buy a gallon of milk for less than $3, and I want milk, I pay $3, whether I think that gallon is only worth $1 or not (and I do think it's only worth $1.)

 

The real fundamental question is WHY is something worth what it is worth.

 

The retail landscape is littered with the corpses of businesses that were able to sell plenty of product - but not a price that covered their expenses. Circuit City for instance.

 

That's a poor example. Circuit City was founded in 1949 and lasted for SIXTY YEARS before it finally closed its doors in 2009. It started as Wards Company (not related to Montgomery-Wards), and there are people who began and ended their entire working careers with the company.

 

There are many reasons for Circuit City going out of business, but an important one was that most CC locations were in areas that had become lower class, and could not compete with the newer Best Buy stores in better locations. They also made a critical mistake in abandoning large appliance sales in 2000.

 

But it's silly to say that Circuit City could not sell goods at a price that covered their expenses...they lasted for six decades. Clearly, for the vast majority of their existence, they COULD do just that, and at a profit.

 

There used to be about 200 manufacturers of Hard Disk drives for computers. Now there are three. The other 197 could not manufacture HD's cheaply enough, though a number of them shipped lots of product

 

We are not talking about manufacturing. We are talking about RETAIL.

 

Manufacturing is a completely different discussion.

 

Then there are businesses that are able to sell their stuff for much, much more than it costs them - and more than their competitors can charge - because they have created a "mystique" about their brand. Apple, Nike, Rolex

 

Again, we are not talking about manufacturing, even if those manufacturers have their own retail arms.

 

Last, there are businesses that can charge basically what they want as they have no effective competition. CGC. Your local utility companies. Microsoft on the Windows operating system.

 

CGC is limited by its parent company, CCG. They can't "charge what they want." They have to charge what the market will bear. They also are not RETAILERS. Utility companies are quasi-governmental entities, governed by public utility commissions.

 

Microsoft is not a retailer...it is a manufacturer.

 

I wasn't offended by any of your posts. Including this one. I was making a joke and even you had admitted that you were on a roll and posting lot. I just was commenting it was one big wall of RMA text on this thread.

 

I do believe that if you understand LCS so well you should open a store. I think your math skills suck. Can I say it more clearly? Most sellers charge the buyer for postage on eBay.

 

I also think your "this doesn't count because it's not this or not that" is just silly. It does count. And BTW, Apple doesn't manufacture one single thing. They design and sell (like - you have heard of the APPLE STORES - right? Big retail places - over 200) They have someone else - Foxconn mostly - manufacture the stuff. So to with Microsoft - they sell their software directly to the PC manufacturers and they market their kit directly to the stores.. you don't like these examples cause they don't fit with the view of retail you've wrapped up in. Circuit City is a fine example as well. The couldn't wring enough profit out of their stores to pay the bills.

 

People pay what they think something is worth. Sellers sell for what they can get people to pay. It doesn't have anything to do with "cost" except to the degree that sellers resist selling for less than cost. Or below the intrinsic value they believe the item has. When the seller and buyers beliefs overlap - or when negotiation is viewed as not worth itl (say for an 80 cent candy bar) you have a sale.

 

 

[dgarthwaite-migration]

The guy I buy from, and have since 1986, says it best:

"If I can make a deal with a customer that makes him happy, and I still make enough profit that it's worth it to me, then that's a great deal."

 

 

Bingo!

 

DG

[Prince Namor]

I was born in a generation that bought comics because we enjoyed reading them and looking at the art.

This 'LCS using eBay' thing all stems from a generation of 'collectors' who grew up in the 90's during the speculation craze, who are still heII bent on believing that some issue of 'Alias' is going to be their meal ticket.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

A few brief points though:

 

Yes, employees do have free time. I begin to think there aren't too many managers on this thread either.

 

When I was a project manager, working under contract for Federated Dept. Stores (Macy*s, Bloomingdales), my independent contractors (Journeyman and Apprentice carpenters) never had "free time", except during their breaks. And any worker that was standing around with "free time" was quickly told to get to work.

 

Employees are not paid to have "free time." That comic store clerks DO "stand around" with "free time" is yet another symptom of poor management.

 

So, again, simply assuming employees have "free time" to package an item, especially when it is not a normal situation, is an assumption you simply cannot make.

 

People on selling on eBay charge for shipping. If shipping is "free" it's not really. It's built into the price

 

Don't know what this refers to, but if shipping is free, that means this particular example...Alias #1...is in even worse shape. Media Mail for one book is a minimum of about $3, materials and postage included, and if you can't ship MM, First Class is the cheapest...and since it goes by the ounce (and can't be over 13 ounces) and Alias #1 weighs approximately 5 ounces, that means there will be little to no packaging...and the book will likely be destroyed.

 

And since Alias #1 is currently a "$15 on eBay or less" book, and labor and packing costs are around $7, and the cheapest postage (if you can) would be $2.53...then you're looking at 74 cents for the Paypal fee, $1.20 (at best) for the FVF...and at least 1/2 of work by SOMEONE...

 

...and you've made a grand total of $3.53.

 

The numbers just don't lie.

 

Since cover price was $2.95, the seller made a whopping 58 cents more, and spent time better spent elsewhere, than he would have gotten had he simply sold three copies for cover price to the buyer.

 

And that's why comic stores go out of business.

 

The fundamental flaw in a few people's logic posting up is that the person wanting to buy multiple copies of the just now hot book represent the only chance the LCS has of ever selling said books. That buyer/flipper is not the only chance they have. The buyer/flipper is wanting to purchase multiple copies BECAUSE it's a hot book and they got there first. There will be other opportunities. In store most likely, online if need be.

 

No one said that at all. The fact is, however, that this particular book...Alias #1...had been "hot" for *at least* TWO WEEKS before the OP's experience (assuming he posted the same or next day after his experience)...and yet, no one beside the OP had bothered to go into the store and look for that particular book, and the seller had no clue it was "hot" UNTIL someone did their work for them.

 

Two weeks these days can sometimes represent the entire cycle for a particular "hot" book.

 

The buyer/flipper was, in this case, the only chance they had. Had this particular buyer/flipper NOT come in, they would have had no idea, and could very easily missed the entire hot/cool cycle. "Got there first"...? Not hardly.

 

Believe it or not, businesses really do sell stuff for what it is worth to the buyer, not what it costs them to make/acquire it.

 

Sorry, but that's not how retail business works. That's how COLLECTIBLES "works", and that is why all but a very, very few are ever really successful in the comics retail business.

 

Businesses sell things based on what it costs...they do not sell them for "what they think a buyer will pay for them." This is proven by the fact that I can't walk up to my local Target cashier and say "hey, this pair of pants is $20, but I'm only willing to pay $12, because that's what it's worth to me. Here's your cash!"

 

And then store security is quickly called.

 

It's also why Target can't take "the latest hot item" and mark it UP. In fact, the vast majority of "hot items" are specifically contracted between manufacturers and retailers to NOT sell them for more than the contracted price.

 

That's also why I can't take the latest copy of Book X #827 and say "I know this has a cover price of $3.99, but it's only worth 75 cents to me, so here you go."

 

Yes, I know that doesn't work in reverse (and retailers frequently price "hot" books ABOVE cover), but they still base prices on what it cost them to obtain...not what they imagine it might be worth to someone else.

 

Because fundamentally, no one knows what something is worth to everyone else. You can guess, but you don't really know. What you DO know is what it cost you to acquire it, and you price it according to what it cost you and what YOU think it might be worth. If you're wrong, and you price too high, you can lower the price. If you're wrong, and you price too low....you'll never know.

 

But if you price based on what it cost you, and you know your market well (as you should), then you will always have a good idea about what it is really worth at the retail level.

 

If they can sell their products for more than it costs them, they make money. If they can sell it for lots more than it costs them, they make lots of money. If buyers won't pay what it costs them, they go out of business. What I've said above just restates a universally accepted truth - Something is worth only what it is worth to the buyer.

 

And yet, millions of businesses the world over, big and small, have the same prices for identical merchandise, regardless of what the buyer may think it's worth. And if I can't buy a gallon of milk for less than $3, and I want milk, I pay $3, whether I think that gallon is only worth $1 or not (and I do think it's only worth $1.)

 

The real fundamental question is WHY is something worth what it is worth.

 

The retail landscape is littered with the corpses of businesses that were able to sell plenty of product - but not a price that covered their expenses. Circuit City for instance.

 

That's a poor example. Circuit City was founded in 1949 and lasted for SIXTY YEARS before it finally closed its doors in 2009. It started as Wards Company (not related to Montgomery-Wards), and there are people who began and ended their entire working careers with the company.

 

There are many reasons for Circuit City going out of business, but an important one was that most CC locations were in areas that had become lower class, and could not compete with the newer Best Buy stores in better locations. They also made a critical mistake in abandoning large appliance sales in 2000.

 

But it's silly to say that Circuit City could not sell goods at a price that covered their expenses...they lasted for six decades. Clearly, for the vast majority of their existence, they COULD do just that, and at a profit.

 

There used to be about 200 manufacturers of Hard Disk drives for computers. Now there are three. The other 197 could not manufacture HD's cheaply enough, though a number of them shipped lots of product

 

We are not talking about manufacturing. We are talking about RETAIL.

 

Manufacturing is a completely different discussion.

 

Then there are businesses that are able to sell their stuff for much, much more than it costs them - and more than their competitors can charge - because they have created a "mystique" about their brand. Apple, Nike, Rolex

 

Again, we are not talking about manufacturing, even if those manufacturers have their own retail arms.

 

Last, there are businesses that can charge basically what they want as they have no effective competition. CGC. Your local utility companies. Microsoft on the Windows operating system.

 

CGC is limited by its parent company, CCG. They can't "charge what they want." They have to charge what the market will bear. They also are not RETAILERS. Utility companies are quasi-governmental entities, governed by public utility commissions.

 

Microsoft is not a retailer...it is a manufacturer.

 

I wasn't offended by any of your posts. Including this one. I was making a joke and even you had admitted that you were on a roll and posting lot. I just was commenting it was one big wall of RMA text on this thread.

 

I do believe that if you understand LCS so well you should open a store. I think your math skills suck. Can I say it more clearly? Most sellers charge the buyer for postage on eBay.

 

I also think your "this doesn't count because it's not this or not that" is just silly. It does count. And BTW, Apple doesn't manufacture one single thing. They design and sell (like - you have heard of the APPLE STORES - right? Big retail places - over 200) They have someone else - Foxconn mostly - manufacture the stuff. So to with Microsoft - they sell their software directly to the PC manufacturers and they market their kit directly to the stores.. you don't like these examples cause they don't fit with the view of retail you've wrapped up in. Circuit City is a fine example as well. The couldn't wring enough profit out of their stores to pay the bills.

 

People pay what they think something is worth. Sellers sell for what they can get people to pay. It doesn't have anything to do with "cost" except to the degree that sellers resist selling for less than cost. Or below the intrinsic value they believe the item has. When the seller and buyers beliefs overlap - or when negotiation is viewed as not worth itl (say for an 80 cent candy bar) you have a sale.

 

 

Stores like Best Buy, Circuit City, Frys etc. rely on buying in volume and hoping they can attract enough buyers to sell through the large purchases they make. It's a huge risk because all it takes is one innovative new product launch and they are sitting on all of yesterday's technology with no customers that want it. There are online retailers that presell stuff they haven't bought at a cheaper price and they don't even order in bulk until they've got the merchandise sold already. You see those retailers getting complaints because of the long delays in shipping the product. It's a highly competitive market and tough to make money. The key in that industry is to have moderately low prices on the big items like computers and then push the heck out of high mark-up accessories. That's where most of the profit is made.

 

I recall years ago that you could buy comic character statues in Warner Bros stores for something like $39. Diamond's wholesale price to comic retailers was almost double that. Comic shops were having to sell comparable statues for over $100 to make a healthy profit margin. That tells me that someone (either the publishers or Diamond) were making a huge markup simply by selling to comic shops. Again though, accessories and ancillary items are the best way to boost profit margins without the customer paying as much attention.

 

DG

[Tony S]

 

 

Stores like Best Buy, Circuit City, Frys etc. rely on buying in volume and hoping they can attract enough buyers to sell through the large purchases they make. It's a huge risk because all it takes is one innovative new product launch and they are sitting on all of yesterday's technology with no customers that want it. There are online retailers that presell stuff they haven't bought at a cheaper price and they don't even order in bulk until they've got the merchandise sold already. You see those retailers getting complaints because of the long delays in shipping the product. It's a highly competitive market and tough to make money. The key in that industry is to have moderately low prices on the big items like computers and then push the heck out of high mark-up accessories. That's where most of the profit is made.

 

I recall years ago that you could buy comic character statues in Warner Bros stores for something like $39. Diamond's wholesale price to comic retailers was almost double that. Comic shops were having to sell comparable statues for over $100 to make a healthy profit margin. That tells me that someone (either the publishers or Diamond) were making a huge markup simply by selling to comic shops. Again though, accessories and ancillary items are the best way to boost profit margins without the customer paying as much attention.

DG

 

GREAT point - and one that is missed by so many stores. For instance, snack items and soda pop have great margins (50%) and great turn over. I've been in stores that didn't even have bags and boards for sale!! One store in town here does a great business in used video games and video game systems. A lot of cross over between comic book collectors and video gamers.

 

 

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I don't see why LCS need to put a limit on comics that one person can buy if they are so concerned with profit. You walk into a grocery store and see people buy shopping carts full of soda on sale, no on says anything, LCS's are turning down money but then get mad when stock collects dust. People who work at comic stores are typically very weird people and don't treat it like a store, they treat it like a hang out. Unorganized, dirty with bad lighting and zero personality with everything thing being a magic card, Star Trek reference as their main sense of humor.

 

I pretty much just dig through all the back issues, pick out what I can flip and then never return to the store ever again as I don't buy new comics. Can't flip those!

 

I agree. If Joe down the street buys all the shelf copies, find out what motivated Joe. Plan better next time based on what you learned. If Jim walks in the next day and can't find the comic because Joe bought the store out, hand him a copy of Previews and tell him that's why it was made. It was made so he can pre-order product and have a reasonable guarantee he'll get everything he wants. He might find things he didn't know existed. He might start buying higer profit margin items. At no point do you want to discourage a customer from buying product. You do want to encourage them to preorder.. Jim may only want the comic because it sold out. Joe buying the store out might actually be the only reason Jim wanted the comic at all. Selling in bulk is the easiest way to generate a higher profit margin. The price point on new comics is relatively low. When customers buy one comic at a time and chit chat with the employee about some superhero movie or favorite comic, the wage you paid the employee can completely negate any profit you made from the sale.

 

DG

[ttfitz]

I don't see why LCS need to put a limit on comics that one person can buy if they are so concerned with profit. You walk into a grocery store and see people buy shopping carts full of soda on sale, no on says anything, LCS's are turning down money but then get mad when stock collects dust.

 

Well, around here there often are sales on items - like soda - that have limits placed on them. "4 for $10, limit 4" is a common one, also sales where you have to buy 4 to get the sales price.

 

Not that I disagree with the foolishness of a LCS turning down a sale just because they need to have some books sitting around not selling....

 

[revat]

 

"Reasonably priced" back issues do not pay the rent. Sales do.

 

This makes no sense.

 

That's because you don't understand what it means.

 

If you sell a "reasonably priced back issue", it's called a sale.

 

 

I think you're on to something....

 

I think what you meant to say is "Back issues don't pay the rent, New Comics do"

 

Nope. I said what I meant. Think about it for a while, it might come to you. Here's a hint: quotation marks have meaning.

 

 

 

first off, I would say the vast majority of comic book shop owners (and even less employees) do not have degrees in economics or business. This is not a slight to say owners and employees are uneducated or unintelligent, just pursuit of those majors would generally lead to pursuit of more profitable business. Also I would say that understanding (or advanced understanding) the relatively basic economics of operating a comic book store do not qualify someone to own/manage a shop profitably. IT IS HARD (increasingly so) to own a comic book store and make profit. Most people do it because they love it (even if they have a tough time showing it).

 

Here's the basics behind why you need to pay the rent with "NEW COMICS", and also why most stores don't want to sell multiples of brand new comics. In most comic businesses, your costs are generally fixed month to month. You spend X on rent, Y on inventory, Z, on labor, and Q on utilities, insurance, misc. There are other less fixed costs monthly too like taxes and marketing etc. So lets say your total avg monthly costs are $3000. You want to be sure you can cover your $3000 per month otherwise why even open a store. To be sure you are covering, you look at your most reliable revenue stream. Which is....new comics. Ideally you have people coming in everyweek to buy new comics, you hope to get regulars and subscribers so you can order the right numbers. Once you establish and get regulars (obviously you hope to keep growing the number), you can start estimating your revenues based on weekly new sales. Relying on back issues sales for ANY of your cost covering is impossible because its nearly impossible to estimate how much stock you'll have or how much of it you'll sell. Someone could come in and overpay for your X-Men #1 CGC 7.0 or 200 $1 comics. it's dependent on a million different numbers of unknowable variables. you simply can't factor it in, just think of it as icing on your cake. But if you sold your Xmen $1 for $9000 this month that gives you ZERO help predicting back issue sales for next month. Certainly you could get lucky and keep selling major keys everymonth, but that would mean you have to keep stocking them too (either from your own collection or buying them). Either way, its hard to include those purchases and sales into your monthly cost covering. If you sold $20 worth of new comics but sold your X-Men #1 for $9000 (which you had since you were a kid), does that mean your store is wildly successful and sustainable because you covered the $3000 (even 3 months worth)? What if that was your only old valuable comic?

 

Also, as for why many don't sell multiples of new hot comics, if random customers come in just for the hot comic, store owners don't want to turn down someone who could be a new long term customer. They won't lose long term customers through the limits. Savvy subscribers can order more ahead of time if they are smart. But store owners LOVE 'new money', because there's a chance of hooking them. THey don't want to run out of bait unnecessarily.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

This thread used to be interesting, until it turned into RMA's own personal soapbox about how comic book stores should operate. Since he knows so much, maybe he should open one. Given that he'll be selling everything cheap, I'll be a customer

 

Rock On, Amadeus...

 

A few brief points though:

 

Yes, employees do have free time. I begin to think there aren't too many managers on this thread either.

 

 

I'm sorry, but if somebody is a manager, and they think that their employees having free time is a normal, acceptable thing, than they are not only costing their company money, but they are not doing their job as a manager. There is absolutely no reason why an employee should have free time. If there is no more work for them to do, including deep cleaning, organizing, sorting, pricing, whatever, than they should be sent home. Businesses who constantly allow their employees to just stand around and have free time will almost certainly be going out of business.

 

A comic shop employee should always be doing something. Even the owner and manager, for if employees see them standing around doing nothing, then they'll know that they can get away with doing the same thing. A businesses culture starts at the top, lazy, lax management will bring the same from their employees, motivated, active management will bring that out in their employees.

 

If you truly think that employees having free time is okay, then you're pretty much a failure as a manager. (thumbs u

 

Sadly, I've known a lot of stores that use "credit slaves" do do all the tedious work. They offer some kid a big discount on his comics if he'll bag everything from the new comics order. Either that or they'll offer people store credit for doing work. I don't know how legal that is, but it is very common.

 

I worked in retail so long that if I'm standing on an aisle talking to someone, I'll instinctively straighten the shelves and turn labels facing outward as I'm talking. I haven't worked in a retail environment in 23 years, but I still do it.

 

DG

[500Club]

 

"Reasonably priced" back issues do not pay the rent. Sales do.

 

This makes no sense.

 

That's because you don't understand what it means.

 

If you sell a "reasonably priced back issue", it's called a sale.

 

 

I think you're on to something....

 

I think what you meant to say is "Back issues don't pay the rent, New Comics do"

 

Nope. I said what I meant. Think about it for a while, it might come to you. Here's a hint: quotation marks have meaning.

 

 

 

 

Here's the basics behind why you need to pay the rent with "NEW COMICS".

You DO realize I wasn't laughing about that suggestion, right?

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I wasn't offended by any of your posts. Including this one. I was making a joke and even you had admitted that you were on a roll and posting lot. I just was commenting it was one big wall of RMA text on this thread.

 

This:

 

This thread used to be interesting, until it turned into RMA's own personal soapbox about how comic book stores should operate. Since he knows so much, maybe he should open one. Given that he'll be selling everything cheap, I'll be a customer

 

...says otherwise. *I* find it offensive that someone would say I turn a thread into "my own personal soapbox", when I post very little at all, and that everyone is allowed to post as much, or as little, as they wish. I usually find that such a comment is made by someone who is, themselves, offended.

 

But if you say you were not, I will take you at your word, and simply ask that personal comments directed at people, rather than the topics discussed, be avoided. You have my word that I will do the same.

 

I do believe that if you understand LCS so well you should open a store. I think your math skills suck.

 

It's easy to dismiss someone's points...a lot harder to actually prove it.

 

What numbers, specifically, do you disagree with?

 

Can I say it more clearly? Most sellers charge the buyer for postage on eBay.

 

Which is why I didn't include it in my ORIGINAL figures.

 

Did you miss those?

 

I also think your "this doesn't count because it's not this or not that" is just silly. It does count.

 

Again, proof talks, BS walks. When I take the time to lay out the argument, and you won't, or can't, respond in like manner, but just say "well, you're wrong"...how is the discussion advanced?

 

When I consider your SPECIFIC points, and don't just gloss over them, but you ignore my points, how is your case made?

 

Ok, great, you think I'm wrong. WHY?

 

And BTW, Apple doesn't manufacture one single thing. They design and sell (like - you have heard of the APPLE STORES - right? Big retail places - over 200) They have someone else - Foxconn mostly - manufacture the stuff.

 

 

Again, we are not talking about manufacturing, even if those manufacturers have their own retail arms.

 

I am NOT going to argue with you about whether or not Apple...which DESIGNS and DEVELOPS all of their products, as well as selling them, is a manufacturer. Apple is not a pure retailer, either, which I think everyone reading this can agree with, especially since they only sell THEIR OWN PRODUCT.

 

HARDLY an apt comparison to the comic book retailer.

 

So to with Microsoft - they sell their software directly to the PC manufacturers and they market their kit directly to the stores.. you don't like these examples cause they don't fit with the view of retail you've wrapped up in.

 

I "don't like" these examples because neither Microsoft nor Apple are anywhere close to being legitimate comparisons to retail outlets like comic book stores. It has nothing to do with what I am "wrapped up in." It has to do with the definition of words like "retail" and "manufacturing."

 

Sorry.

 

Circuit City is a fine example as well. The couldn't wring enough profit out of their stores to pay the bills.

 

Again...Circuit City existed for SIXTY YEARS. That they couldn't "wring enough profit out of their stores to pay the bills" at the end of their existence does not therefore mean that they could not so throughout the SIXTY YEARS that they existed as a business.

 

Frankly, it's a terrible example, and I'm sure you know it. I mean, really, are you for real? Circuit City was a profitable company for DECADES, and you're holding it up as an example of "business that (was) able to sell plenty of product - but not a price that covered their expenses"...?

 

Honestly.

 

People pay what they think something is worth.

 

Wrong. People pay what they think everyone else thinks something is worth. I know a gallon of milk isn't worth $3. I know that because I can go to other places and pay less for it (I just paid $1.50 for a gallon in Phx, AZ in October.) But I am forced to pay $3 for it in Los Angeles precisely because everyone else WILL pay $3 for it HERE.

 

Your statement sounds pretty good...until you run up against the realities of retail pricing.

 

After all...comic books have their prices already printed on them. Where does that price come from, if people just paid what they thought it was worth? Answer: because enough "everyone elses" WILL pay that price for the product to be priced at that point. The vast majority of those who buy new comics AGREE that the latest issue of Book X #473 is worth the price printed on the cover, and pay it. Whether or not they receive a further discount is irrelevant; that is an individual retailer's prerogative.

 

Sellers sell for what they can get people to pay. It doesn't have anything to do with "cost" except to the degree that sellers resist selling for less than cost. Or below the intrinsic value they believe the item has. When the seller and buyers beliefs overlap - or when negotiation is viewed as not worth itl (say for an 80 cent candy bar) you have a sale.

 

 

"Intrinsic value" is value that belongs naturally, or is essential. Intrinsic value is intrinsic because it has that value universally. Almost nothing has INTRINSIC value in the retail world. A pair of pants that I cannot fit into has zero intrinsic value to me. That quarter has a value of a quarter only because the person taking it from me agrees that it is worth a quarter. It's metallic (intrinsic) value is worth about 6 cents. That comic book has zero intrinsic value, except as about 20 seconds worth of heat in a fire.

 

But by all means, if you wish to imagine that the retail has nothing whatsoever to do with what the product costs...despite the fact that this is the very foundation of retail...by all means, fight reality.

 

And if you think sellers won't sell below cost to get rid of unsold product... "Clearance" anyone...?

[joecgcmaniac]

 

And if you think sellers won't sell below cost to get rid of unsold product... "Clearance" anyone...?

 

+1

 

 

[Tony S]

 

I

Sellers sell for what they can get people to pay. It doesn't have anything to do with "cost" except to the degree that sellers resist selling for less than cost. Or below the intrinsic value they believe the item has. When the seller and buyers beliefs overlap - or when negotiation is viewed as not worth itl (say for an 80 cent candy bar) you have a sale.

 

 

 

But by all means, if you wish to imagine that the retail has nothing whatsoever to do with what the product costs...despite the fact that this is the very foundation of retail...by all means, fight reality.

 

And if you think sellers won't sell below cost to get rid of unsold product... "Clearance" anyone...?

 

I won't bother arguing the various points more, since it seems to be rather irritating to you that I don't see the wisdom of your posts.

 

However - you do realize the inherent conflicts in your last two statements (bolded)?

 

On the one hand, you disagree with me that retail prices are not based what it cost the retailer to acquire the product. Disagree with me to the degree that you say I am fighting reality.

 

Then you go on to state that sellers will in some circumstances sell below cost.

 

Which is what I'm saying. If you pay to much, you'll end up selling at a loss. If you pay less than that what you can sell it for, you'll make a profit. If you are able to pay a lot less than what you sell can sell it for, you make a bigger profit.

 

So by your own words and example, the price the retailer paid had no affect on the retail price of the clearance items. The items were not worth as much to the buyer as the retailer thought they would be - so they were sold at below cost.

[Prince Namor]

Oh. My. God.

[Tony S]

Oh. My. God.

 

OK. RMA and I seem to have gotten a bit sideways. I've read many a post by him that I found interesting/entertaining and or agreed with.

 

If I've been curt, I apologize. It really doesn't matter if our interpretation of retail theory matches up In fact, theory aside we agree on many fundamentals for running a LCS, including not running a museum, turning inventory over, building long term customers.

 

So peace out RMA. To the degree I've been difficult, my apologies. <3

[dgarthwaite-migration]

RMA's assertion has been that back issue sales "should" be gravy money if you've achieved the goal of making new comics profitable. I agree with that. I do not believe in ever flushing out comics below cost in a retail setting. Too many customers think new comics are overpriced and that stores are making some huge profit margin. It's simply not true based on the low volumes being published. It encourages your customers to wait until you mark them down. That's not a good lesson to teach your customers. With every increase in price on modern comics, customers trim back the number of comics they buy. This hurts the volume of comics ordered and volume is required for printers to get a price break on publishing them. "Flippers" in the 90's were the street team promoting comics. Convention dealers (which I call "weekend warriors") were out selling Barbie comics to their neighbor's daughter. They were literally hyping and pushing comics to anyone they know. They were a modern day equivalent of door to door salesmen. It's a reach that comics shops can't achieve. I think comics should be flushed out to "flippers". They are people with motivation, time, and drive to make money. I had some real good luck buying comics in bulk when stores closed. I'd get them for pennies each. I sold a few long boxes to an antique dealer. I made 10x my money back and they still had a lot of room to mark them up. I think there are alternate ways of flushing out comics in bulk without devaluing them at the retail level. In one forum a comic retailer boasted about how successful he was selling quarter books at a convention. I did a little math in my head and discovered that he'd earned McDonalds wages, worked harder, worked longer hours, and didn't even get the benefit of having medical insurance like a McDonalds employees would have. If you are going to flush comics out absurdly cheap, it's best to do it in bulk and consume the smallest amount of time in the process. It's best not to do it in the store unless you want your customers to get in the habit of waiting for those bargain deals.

 

I blame publishers for the current high prices on comics. They sabotage back issue sales at the retail level and the back issue sales are the positive cash flow that retailers need to order more aggressively. Until stores can afford to order more aggressively on their own terms (not incentive offers based on variants!) and offer a more diverse selection of product, the health of the hobby will continue to choke itself.

 

DG

[Chip Cataldo]

RMA is now my second favorite person on these boards.

 

Keep posting, brother!

 

Peace,

 

Chip