Spiderturtle Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: eBay “Comic-warehouse” may be a boardie since he seems caught up on the “dot, no dot” issue. people don’t normally go from a CGC holder to one of the other guys. I see a couple different possible explanations I have more confidence in Cgc. What if there is a small population that would prefer a cbcs 4.5 over a Cgc 4.0? Gotham Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Spiderturtle said: I have more confidence in Cgc. Me too 11 minutes ago, Spiderturtle said: What if there is a small population that would prefer a cbcs 4.5 over a Cgc 4.0? That, and the Kane signature has gone from “writing on cover” to Verified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: Well this is troubling . . and on just so many levels. Here is the “Before” pic: I don't know the seller but I would guess the reason for going with the other company was to get a label that said it had a verified signature. The provenance on the signature was considered first rate when this first showed up for sale, consigned by the original owner but the worst-case interpretation of CGC's label could conceivably have caused some buyers to think that nothing was certain but that some random dude scribbled on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: 2 hours ago, Spiderturtle said: What if there is a small population that would prefer a cbcs 4.5 over a Cgc 4.0? That, and the Kane signature has gone from “writing on cover” to Verified That's because CGC only provides a Signature service whereby the book needs to be signed in front of a CGC witness, whereas the competition provides the same authorized witness signature service. The competition, on the other hand, also goes one step further by providing an additional Signature Verification Service whereby they certify the authenticity of unwitnessed signatures. CGC treats the unwitnessed signature as "writing on cover", but I am not sure if they treat it as a defect which would then end up lowering the condition grade of the book. Edited May 17, 2020 by lou_fine aardvark88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Kid Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: eBay “Comic-warehouse” may be a boardie since he seems knowledgeable on the “dot, no dot” issue. people don’t normally go from a CGC holder to one of the other guys. I see a couple different possible explanations If he is then how about you submit the CGC label ? The serial # is still valid and that means still 1 4.0 on the CGC census when in fact there shouldn't be. Edited May 17, 2020 by Gotham Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr bla bla Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 It has gone from cgc 4.0 to cbcs 4.5. Whats next? Pgx 5.0 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhcomics Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Everyone can agree we have 2 grading options for comics. I believe CGC to be the best option but I see no problem with other company calling what was a CGC 4.0 now a 4.5 for them. If you submit enough comics and have done a straight crack and resub (no press) you will see even CGC can be anywhere from .5 to a full point higher or lower. Since this was once graded by CGC and seller can prove it that should give confidence to buyers that are doubtful. As for signature verification I also see that as a plus. I think the buyer was smart to do this. Probably a little optimistic on asking price in today's market but I bet over time he will do quite well. woowoo and thedude 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderturtle Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Mr bla bla said: It has gone from cgc 4.0 to cbcs 4.5. Whats next? Pgx 5.0 ? Pgx 6.0. Not even joking here based on past personal experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhcomics Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: You think this smart businessman buyer will correct the census? I'm sure CGC will correct it now that this has been posted or once a boardie points it out to them. If I were seller I could see the benefit of hanging onto it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 minute ago, lhcomics said: I'm sure CGC will correct it now that this has been posted or once a boardie points it out to them. If I were seller I could see the benefit of hanging onto it. So someone else will fix the problem? i wonder how accurate the census really is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Kid Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: i wonder how accurate the census really is It isn't, for some books not even close. Edited May 17, 2020 by Gotham Kid lhcomics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 hours ago, lhcomics said: Everyone can agree we have 2 grading options for comics. I believe CGC to be the best option but I see no problem with other company calling what was a CGC 4.0 now a 4.5 for them. If you submit enough comics and have done a straight crack and resub (no press) you will see even CGC can be anywhere from .5 to a full point higher or lower. Since this was once graded by CGC and seller can prove it that should give confidence to buyers that are doubtful. As for signature verification I also see that as a plus. I think the buyer was smart to do this. Probably a little optimistic on asking price in today's market but I bet over time he will do quite well. 2 equally good options imo. Voldy does some things more in line with what I think Makes more sense. CGC is still brand at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCooper Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 13 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: eBay “Comic-warehouse” may be a boardie since he seems knowledgeable on the “dot, no dot” issue. His marketing skills are on full display since he refers to it as a “Rare Variant” Comic-Warehouse is Bill Hughes of Vintage Collectables/Greg Manning auctions fame From the Vintage Collectables homepage: "Greetings Fellow Collectors, I hope 2020 is treating you well so far! Thank you for dropping in to visit my website. The collectibles' markets seem to continue to show strong demand and upward trends. For this reason, and my love of collectibles in general, I continue to scour the countryside, seeking "fresh" material for my website and eBay listings (comic-warehouse)" GreatCaesarsGhost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderturtle Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said: 2 equally good options imo. Voldy does some things more in line with what I think Makes more sense. CGC is still brand at this point Cgc is similar in brand to say Nike vs the other shoe companies. Once you got that brand in your brain it’s irreversible. Gotham Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Spiderturtle said: Cgc is similar in brand to say Nike vs the other shoe companies. Once you got that brand in your brain it’s irreversible. One thing I can say with confidence is that I don’t trust one more than the other in terms of expertise. That’s good enough for me as a collector. That goes for grading and pressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 4.0 to 4.5 not much diff unless its a key book. I can grade fine doing it for years and if I am buying the Batman 1 its a 4.0 If I am selling and want a higher grade CBCS or pgx is the way to go I say you would think CGC would authenticate these types of sig by now right like @bluechip said The provenance on the signature is 100% a Big deal and cgc don't do this on book's before there time that are special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 42 minutes ago, woowoo said: 4.0 to 4.5 not much diff unless its a key book. I can grade fine doing it for years and if I am buying the Batman 1 its a 4.0 If I am selling and want a higher grade CBCS or pgx is the way to go I say you would think CGC would authenticate these types of sig by now right like @bluechip said The provenance on the signature is 100% a Big deal and cgc don't do this on book's before there time that are special Voldy is more willing to listen to us in the hobby I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Might just be me, but I think CGC should change their stance on unwitnessed signatures. There are some ways to prove that a signature is authentic without a witness present by looking at known legit examples. If PSA/DNA can do it, I think CGC can with the proper staff who have had years of experience with signature authentication. woowoo, Gotham Kid and Larryw7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 47 minutes ago, Dark Knight said: Might just be me, but I think CGC should change their stance on unwitnessed signatures. There are some ways to prove that a signature is authentic without a witness present by looking at known legit examples. If PSA/DNA can do it, I think CGC can with the proper staff who have had years of experience with signature authentication. +1. Also I like how Voldy differentiates between trimmed and restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Yeah that's great too, but I would prefer a different colored label to distinguish the two quicker especially when going through a variety of slabs at a show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...