Marvel to Abandon Brick-and-Mortar Bookstores

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Collectors have to take some responsibility for the demise of the newsstand distribution. If you were with a friend and your friend's 10 year old son wanted to buy a comic at Walmart, what would you say? The odds are you'd be telling him that the comic he picked out had creases on the spine. You'd tell him he needed to pick out the very best copy. You'd tell him he needs to visit the comic store so he could get bags and boards to protect them. You'd essentially scorn every damaged comic you saw and you'd drain out every bit of excitement the kid might have. You'd want to shape him into being a wise collector. The lack of availability of newsstand comics is partly an issue because collectors scorn the way the general public is going to treat the product in a store. People who don't buy comics look at collectors as being part of some obsessed cult that they don't even want to understand.

 

DG

I don't know why you make the assumption that all the collectors here are incapable of relating to their children and have to fit to the stereotype that you've highlighted. I'm sure you'll find that most of the parents on this forum would be happy to have their kid want a comic to read and mangle like most of us did when we were kids.

 

Can parents relate to kids and go against the stereotype I've described? Yes.

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter, because collectors in the hobby overall treat comics as sacred. Someone will give the speech to a kid. To people who don't collect, that's "weird". It makes them want to avoid the obsessed individuals who are hung up on a spine indention or a rounded corner. It adds a whole set of rules that the casual consumer doesn't want to deal with.

 

I collected stamps when I was 12. I had so much fun soaking them off of envelopes. Family and neighbors let me go through their old letters and find old stamps and I could have them. I matched up the pictures with the pictures in the stamp album. One day I go to the stamp and coin store and a stamp collector starts giving me a lecture that I need to only collect new stamps and I needed the clear sleeves to protect them. I looked at the price of the sleeves. It was all out of my budget. I wanted the really old ones that had been used. After about two or three times of being told I wasn't collecting properly, I hung it up. It was obvious that being a stamp collector meant I had to think like everyone else. I wanted no part of what they were doing and I wanted no part of their lectures. I quit collecting stamps so I wouldn't have to deal with stamp collectors.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter if YOU can relate to kids. The hobby alienates people who do not think exactly like them.

 

This board has endless threads telling me how I should feel about restoration, date stamps, printing defects, pressing etc. I skip over most of it because I really don't care whether my opinion matches yours. I'm not interested in collecting with a magnifying glass and too many collectors are telling me I need to have that attitude.

 

DG

[Speedy-D]

I hear what you're saying man, but I don't think you're right. Aside from an oddball subset who have gone way overboard with their fetishizing of the physical product, as hard as we comic nerds geek out on pristine copies, we geek out equally hard on memories of being a kid with a rolled up comic in our back pocket, and love to see those tousle-haired youngsters of yesterlore in front of us today.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Was checking Comichron to see what it had in the way of Direct Market trends.

 

Comic sales to comic stores

 

TPB growth is huge!

 

 

I think that's misleading. More TPB's are being released at higher price points. Some of the print runs are extremely low. Dollars and volume may be up, but I'd bet profit margins are lower than in the past.

 

DG

[Speedy-D]

Poking around amazon.com, TPB prices seem to be the sale $12-$17 they've been for quite some time. :shrug:

[dgarthwaite-migration]

It was proposed that digital is the new newsstand. That may be true, but you still have to go look for them. A spinner rack in the 70's captured impulse buyers. The covers were designed to grab a consumers attention as they walked by. I don't believe digital comics are reaching and enticing the casual consumers.

 

DG

[Speedy-D]

It was proposed that digital is the new newsstand. That may be true, but you still have to go look for them. A spinner rack in the 70's captured impulse buyers. The covers were designed to grab a consumers attention as they walked by. I don't believe digital comics are reaching and enticing the casual consumers.

 

DG

true dat

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Poking around amazon.com, TPB prices seem to be the sale $12-$17 they've been for quite some time. :shrug:

 

Some are higher now. Either way, more titles get released as TPB or HC now. Publishers weren't milking the format as much 10 years ago.

 

DG

[slym2none]

Collectors have to take some responsibility for the demise of the newsstand distribution. If you were with a friend and your friend's 10 year old son wanted to buy a comic at Walmart, what would you say? The odds are you'd be telling him that the comic he picked out had creases on the spine. You'd tell him he needed to pick out the very best copy. You'd tell him he needs to visit the comic store so he could get bags and boards to protect them. You'd essentially scorn every damaged comic you saw and you'd drain out every bit of excitement the kid might have. You'd want to shape him into being a wise collector. The lack of availability of newsstand comics is partly an issue because collectors scorn the way the general public is going to treat the product in a store. People who don't buy comics look at collectors as being part of some obsessed cult that they don't even want to understand.

 

DG

I don't know why you make the assumption that all the collectors here are incapable of relating to their children and have to fit to the stereotype that you've highlighted. I'm sure you'll find that most of the parents on this forum would be happy to have their kid want a comic to read and mangle like most of us did when we were kids.

 

"We see things not as they are, but as we are."

 

 

 

-slym

[towards2112]

Collectors have to take some responsibility for the demise of the newsstand distribution. If you were with a friend and your friend's 10 year old son wanted to buy a comic at Walmart, what would you say? The odds are you'd be telling him that the comic he picked out had creases on the spine. You'd tell him he needed to pick out the very best copy. You'd tell him he needs to visit the comic store so he could get bags and boards to protect them. You'd essentially scorn every damaged comic you saw and you'd drain out every bit of excitement the kid might have. You'd want to shape him into being a wise collector. The lack of availability of newsstand comics is partly an issue because collectors scorn the way the general public is going to treat the product in a store. People who don't buy comics look at collectors as being part of some obsessed cult that they don't even want to understand.

 

DG

I don't know why you make the assumption that all the collectors here are incapable of relating to their children and have to fit to the stereotype that you've highlighted. I'm sure you'll find that most of the parents on this forum would be happy to have their kid want a comic to read and mangle like most of us did when we were kids.

 

Can parents relate to kids and go against the stereotype I've described? Yes.

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter, because collectors in the hobby overall treat comics as sacred. Someone will give the speech to a kid. To people who don't collect, that's "weird". It makes them want to avoid the obsessed individuals who are hung up on a spine indention or a rounded corner. It adds a whole set of rules that the casual consumer doesn't want to deal with.

 

I collected stamps when I was 12. I had so much fun soaking them off of envelopes. Family and neighbors let me go through their old letters and find old stamps and I could have them. I matched up the pictures with the pictures in the stamp album. One day I go to the stamp and coin store and a stamp collector starts giving me a lecture that I need to only collect new stamps and I needed the clear sleeves to protect them. I looked at the price of the sleeves. It was all out of my budget. I wanted the really old ones that had been used. After about two or three times of being told I wasn't collecting properly, I hung it up. It was obvious that being a stamp collector meant I had to think like everyone else. I wanted no part of what they were doing and I wanted no part of their lectures. I quit collecting stamps so I wouldn't have to deal with stamp collectors.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter if YOU can relate to kids. The hobby alienates people who do not think exactly like them.

 

This board has endless threads telling me how I should feel about restoration, date stamps, printing defects, pressing etc. I skip over most of it because I really don't care whether my opinion matches yours. I'm not interested in collecting with a magnifying glass and too many collectors are telling me I need to have that attitude.

 

DG

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I grew up in the 90s, and I remember buying comics from Wal Mart as a kid. Usually they were a packaged deal. I had bought the Amazing Spider-Man Lifeline storyline in a package. I also got the best of 96 in a DC box. I believe it is still upstairs in a box of childhood stuff.

 

Why didn't this continue? They were cheap boxed up story lines. I even think they are first prints. I imagine they were overstock that Marvel and DC sold for cheap.

[Dr. Balls]

Collectors have to take some responsibility for the demise of the newsstand distribution. If you were with a friend and your friend's 10 year old son wanted to buy a comic at Walmart, what would you say? The odds are you'd be telling him that the comic he picked out had creases on the spine. You'd tell him he needed to pick out the very best copy. You'd tell him he needs to visit the comic store so he could get bags and boards to protect them. You'd essentially scorn every damaged comic you saw and you'd drain out every bit of excitement the kid might have. You'd want to shape him into being a wise collector. The lack of availability of newsstand comics is partly an issue because collectors scorn the way the general public is going to treat the product in a store. People who don't buy comics look at collectors as being part of some obsessed cult that they don't even want to understand.

 

DG

I don't know why you make the assumption that all the collectors here are incapable of relating to their children and have to fit to the stereotype that you've highlighted. I'm sure you'll find that most of the parents on this forum would be happy to have their kid want a comic to read and mangle like most of us did when we were kids.

 

Can parents relate to kids and go against the stereotype I've described? Yes.

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter, because collectors in the hobby overall treat comics as sacred. Someone will give the speech to a kid. To people who don't collect, that's "weird". It makes them want to avoid the obsessed individuals who are hung up on a spine indention or a rounded corner. It adds a whole set of rules that the casual consumer doesn't want to deal with.

 

I collected stamps when I was 12. I had so much fun soaking them off of envelopes. Family and neighbors let me go through their old letters and find old stamps and I could have them. I matched up the pictures with the pictures in the stamp album. One day I go to the stamp and coin store and a stamp collector starts giving me a lecture that I need to only collect new stamps and I needed the clear sleeves to protect them. I looked at the price of the sleeves. It was all out of my budget. I wanted the really old ones that had been used. After about two or three times of being told I wasn't collecting properly, I hung it up. It was obvious that being a stamp collector meant I had to think like everyone else. I wanted no part of what they were doing and I wanted no part of their lectures. I quit collecting stamps so I wouldn't have to deal with stamp collectors.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter if YOU can relate to kids. The hobby alienates people who do not think exactly like them.

 

This board has endless threads telling me how I should feel about restoration, date stamps, printing defects, pressing etc. I skip over most of it because I really don't care whether my opinion matches yours. I'm not interested in collecting with a magnifying glass and too many collectors are telling me I need to have that attitude.

 

DG

 

I think you're probably talking about a extremely small percentage of people that are effecting the entire industry. The likely explanation is that new generations of children are entertained in different ways than previous generations. Tangible comic books and the entertainment they generate are almost anachronistic.

 

My stepson has zero desire for paper comics. He loves the digital comics I get for him, because that is how he is used to absorbing his content. I try to support that for him.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Here is what comics I've bought from Wal Mart looked like:

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Collectors have to take some responsibility for the demise of the newsstand distribution. If you were with a friend and your friend's 10 year old son wanted to buy a comic at Walmart, what would you say? The odds are you'd be telling him that the comic he picked out had creases on the spine. You'd tell him he needed to pick out the very best copy. You'd tell him he needs to visit the comic store so he could get bags and boards to protect them. You'd essentially scorn every damaged comic you saw and you'd drain out every bit of excitement the kid might have. You'd want to shape him into being a wise collector. The lack of availability of newsstand comics is partly an issue because collectors scorn the way the general public is going to treat the product in a store. People who don't buy comics look at collectors as being part of some obsessed cult that they don't even want to understand.

 

DG

I don't know why you make the assumption that all the collectors here are incapable of relating to their children and have to fit to the stereotype that you've highlighted. I'm sure you'll find that most of the parents on this forum would be happy to have their kid want a comic to read and mangle like most of us did when we were kids.

 

Can parents relate to kids and go against the stereotype I've described? Yes.

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter, because collectors in the hobby overall treat comics as sacred. Someone will give the speech to a kid. To people who don't collect, that's "weird". It makes them want to avoid the obsessed individuals who are hung up on a spine indention or a rounded corner. It adds a whole set of rules that the casual consumer doesn't want to deal with.

 

I collected stamps when I was 12. I had so much fun soaking them off of envelopes. Family and neighbors let me go through their old letters and find old stamps and I could have them. I matched up the pictures with the pictures in the stamp album. One day I go to the stamp and coin store and a stamp collector starts giving me a lecture that I need to only collect new stamps and I needed the clear sleeves to protect them. I looked at the price of the sleeves. It was all out of my budget. I wanted the really old ones that had been used. After about two or three times of being told I wasn't collecting properly, I hung it up. It was obvious that being a stamp collector meant I had to think like everyone else. I wanted no part of what they were doing and I wanted no part of their lectures. I quit collecting stamps so I wouldn't have to deal with stamp collectors.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter if YOU can relate to kids. The hobby alienates people who do not think exactly like them.

 

This board has endless threads telling me how I should feel about restoration, date stamps, printing defects, pressing etc. I skip over most of it because I really don't care whether my opinion matches yours. I'm not interested in collecting with a magnifying glass and too many collectors are telling me I need to have that attitude.

 

DG

 

I think you're probably talking about a extremely small percentage of people that are effecting the entire industry. The likely explanation is that new generations of children are entertained in different ways than previous generations. Tangible comic books and the entertainment they generate are almost anachronistic.

 

My stepson has zero desire for paper comics. He loves the digital comics I get for him, because that is how he is used to absorbing his content. I try to support that for him.

 

Exactly! As an English teacher, there is a change with the way children absorb information. Students are more engaged reading something off a computer monitor or phone than a hard copy.

 

Every time we have these threads, people keep saying that the stories aren't appealing or relatable for young people. That just isn't the case.

 

Even my own daughter- who loves reading- enjoys it even more from her Kindle. Perfect example is the Hunger Games books. I purchased hard copies of them a few years back. My daughter went to read them and found she could rent them for free on her Kindle. She chose to do that rather than carry around the books.

 

If you want to appeal to todays' youth, you need to meet them where they are. Right now digital is the way to appeal to them.

[RCheli]

If anything, this is more an indictment on Barnes and Noble and BAM than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if either or both of those file for bankruptcy by the end of the year. They are hemorrhaging money at a ridiculously rapid rate and one less product that likely makes them a tiny piece of profit (if anything) is likely fine by them.

 

This a quote from an article from this summer about B&N losing money: Revenue at stores open at least a year, a key metric, fell 8.8 percent during the period. It also warned it expects that figure to decline in the "high-single digits" for its fiscal 2014, partly as a result of tough comparisons with last year.

 

Marvel makes their money through comic book stores and Amazon. The chain bookstore is going to go away (although I think that the locally owned bookstores are going to start to rebound).

[ChrisInBaltimore]

If anything, this is more an indictment on Barnes and Noble and BAM than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if either or both of those file for bankruptcy by the end of the year. They are hemorrhaging money at a ridiculously rapid rate and one less product that likely makes them a tiny piece of profit (if anything) is likely fine by them.

 

This a quote from an article from this summer about B&N losing money: Revenue at stores open at least a year, a key metric, fell 8.8 percent during the period. It also warned it expects that figure to decline in the "high-single digits" for its fiscal 2014, partly as a result of tough comparisons with last year.

 

Marvel makes their money through comic book stores and Amazon. The chain bookstore is going to go away (although I think that the locally owned bookstores are going to start to rebound).

 

Well you have to imagine with the bloated stock that stores like Barnes and Noble carry it is killing them. There is a Barnes and Noble near me that is two stories and all its shelves are stocked to the brim. How much of that stuff are they actually selling though?

 

Not to mention how overpriced a good number of their stuff is too. Have you ever looked through their electronics? They are ridiculously overpriced.

 

Almost every book I buy in Barnes and Noble I can turn to Amazon and find new for a few dollars less. With Amazon prime, it is well worth it for me to order online.

 

We love going to Barnes and Noble, but it just isn't a cost effective outing anymore.

[Dr. Balls]

Collectors have to take some responsibility for the demise of the newsstand distribution. If you were with a friend and your friend's 10 year old son wanted to buy a comic at Walmart, what would you say? The odds are you'd be telling him that the comic he picked out had creases on the spine. You'd tell him he needed to pick out the very best copy. You'd tell him he needs to visit the comic store so he could get bags and boards to protect them. You'd essentially scorn every damaged comic you saw and you'd drain out every bit of excitement the kid might have. You'd want to shape him into being a wise collector. The lack of availability of newsstand comics is partly an issue because collectors scorn the way the general public is going to treat the product in a store. People who don't buy comics look at collectors as being part of some obsessed cult that they don't even want to understand.

 

DG

I don't know why you make the assumption that all the collectors here are incapable of relating to their children and have to fit to the stereotype that you've highlighted. I'm sure you'll find that most of the parents on this forum would be happy to have their kid want a comic to read and mangle like most of us did when we were kids.

 

Can parents relate to kids and go against the stereotype I've described? Yes.

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter, because collectors in the hobby overall treat comics as sacred. Someone will give the speech to a kid. To people who don't collect, that's "weird". It makes them want to avoid the obsessed individuals who are hung up on a spine indention or a rounded corner. It adds a whole set of rules that the casual consumer doesn't want to deal with.

 

I collected stamps when I was 12. I had so much fun soaking them off of envelopes. Family and neighbors let me go through their old letters and find old stamps and I could have them. I matched up the pictures with the pictures in the stamp album. One day I go to the stamp and coin store and a stamp collector starts giving me a lecture that I need to only collect new stamps and I needed the clear sleeves to protect them. I looked at the price of the sleeves. It was all out of my budget. I wanted the really old ones that had been used. After about two or three times of being told I wasn't collecting properly, I hung it up. It was obvious that being a stamp collector meant I had to think like everyone else. I wanted no part of what they were doing and I wanted no part of their lectures. I quit collecting stamps so I wouldn't have to deal with stamp collectors.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter if YOU can relate to kids. The hobby alienates people who do not think exactly like them.

 

This board has endless threads telling me how I should feel about restoration, date stamps, printing defects, pressing etc. I skip over most of it because I really don't care whether my opinion matches yours. I'm not interested in collecting with a magnifying glass and too many collectors are telling me I need to have that attitude.

 

DG

 

I think you're probably talking about a extremely small percentage of people that are effecting the entire industry. The likely explanation is that new generations of children are entertained in different ways than previous generations. Tangible comic books and the entertainment they generate are almost anachronistic.

 

My stepson has zero desire for paper comics. He loves the digital comics I get for him, because that is how he is used to absorbing his content. I try to support that for him.

 

Exactly! As an English teacher, there is a change with the way children absorb information. Students are more engaged reading something off a computer monitor or phone than a hard copy.

 

Every time we have these threads, people keep saying that the stories aren't appealing or relatable for young people. That just isn't the case.

 

Even my own daughter- who loves reading- enjoys it even more from her Kindle. Perfect example is the Hunger Games books. I purchased hard copies of them a few years back. My daughter went to read them and found she could rent them for free on her Kindle. She chose to do that rather than carry around the books.

 

If you want to appeal to todays' youth, you need to meet them where they are. Right now digital is the way to appeal to them.

 

Absolutely. It took awhile for my stepson to find the right books that he likes - but he's got a short list of favorites. Granted, he's still splitting time between his iPad, DS and XBox, but at least comics are there in the mix. Plus, he loves comic movies - so there is stuff that speaks to him as a 12 year old kid. But it's not paper comics.

[RCheli]

Well you have to imagine with the bloated stock that stores like Barnes and Noble carry it is killing them. There is a Barnes and Noble near me that is two stories and all its shelves are stocked to the brim. How much of that stuff are they actually selling though?

 

Not to mention how overpriced a good number of their stuff is too. Have you ever looked through their electronics? They are ridiculously overpriced.

 

Almost every book I buy in Barnes and Noble I can turn to Amazon and find new for a few dollars less. With Amazon prime, it is well worth it for me to order online.

 

We love going to Barnes and Noble, but it just isn't a cost effective outing anymore.

 

Well, these big stores have a pretty good inventory system, and a large percentage of their stock is returnable. The problem is that -- as you mentioned -- you can get the same product for less on Amazon. The other problem is that, unlike a smaller store, you don't get the personal touch of having an employee know something about the stock. (Ask anyone at B&N to recommend a book and you'll get a blank stare.)

 

To me, the issue is that these bookstores waste a ton of space on things that are not books. Toys. Music. DVDs. Nicknacks. Aisles and aisles of that take up space and give you little profit. It was the downfall of Borders.

[joe_collector]

Nowadays, he says it was not his idea to turn his back on the Newsstand Market.

 

Yeah right.

[Jeffro.]

It's pretty sad knowing that those spinner racks that most of us grew up with are a thing of the past.

 

It did my heart some good yesterday at a local show to see a father buying some Archie comics for his two daughters. They seemed quite eager about the comics.

[Rommin]

Wouldn't this be a positive thing for actual comic book stores?

 

Not if there are not even stores around to pick up new readers and get them hooked.

 

Who Killed the Newsstand Comics Market?

 

Oddly enough, it was Jim Shooter who pointed out the relationship between Newsstand and Direct, and how the former would start new readers off leading to them then moving on to the direct market. Nowadays, he says it was not his idea to turn his back on the Newsstand Market.

 

That's exactly how it worked for me in the 80's. bike to the drugstore, get a drivers license and start haunting the comic shops.

 

Me too. Drugstores, grocery stores, all of that .. I miss those days. Oh, and a freakin' letters page.