Comics, Pulps, and Paperbacks: Why such a discrepancy in values? 25 25

[Surfing Alien]

On 2/9/2024 at 4:06 PM, Pat Calhoun said:

yes this is THE PB thread on the forum: nuff said.

THAT is the voice of authority

 

[Surfing Alien]

Speaking of Pyramids, I got one in for the Friday Fun fest

 

No. 15  from 1949,  Palm Beach Apartment by Gail Jordan, chalk up another early number for the run. Cover art by George Geygan.

 

Also two more Zeniths. Making good inroads on this short series that is really the end run of Goodman's pb empire started with Lion. Fun fact: they are the last vintage paperback series alphabetically as well, they go from Ace to Zenith

 

ZB17, 1959, Death of the Party by Ruth Fenisong. Cover by Darcy/ Ernest Chiriaka

 

 

ZB37, 1959. The Girl Who Killed Things by Talmage Powell a PBO. Cool cover art is uncredited. Great title and it looks like a fun read as well.

 

 

Since I was digging around my Pyramids I threw together a group shot of some of the better titles.

 

Hope you enjoyed this break from reality

[jimjum12]

On 2/9/2024 at 3:12 PM, Surfing Alien said:

Online buying and selling is soooo hit or miss. One of the "services" I guess I provide as a seller on the boards is a " filter" for all the c*r*a*p  I've bought online that looked high grade but weren't described or pictured right   I use comic terms and VF is about my highest grade. That's a real sharp book with very minor flaws.

I find the old bookman's terms of Good- Very Good-Fine completely useless for pbs and think they should be roundly kicked to the curb by the hobby as happened with comics eventually but there's no corralling the interwebs into that without more hobby centralization. People use terms like "acceptable" and "mint" and everything in between with no regard.

 That "More Than Human" is pretty but I have to say I almost fell on the floor when I saw his "Fahrenheit 451" - even with the dark cover inks that looks VF/NM maybe NM to me from the front. If the spine and back are similar it's very rare like that. Better than mine and a real treasure. I don't even know what kind of a price tag I'd put on that for sale as it's such a sought after author/title. A great find wherever you got it from Erich!

For the record, I've never had an issue with anything I got from you, with the one tiny annoyance that they are usually sold out before I get to your thread. I do see what you mean about different grading scales, some eBayers sell an unread copy as Fine, some as a VF, and others as a NM. It very much pays to look at the scans. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited February 10 by jimjum12

[moonpool]

As I've been using the terms for a long time, good to fine works well.  Just depends on the seller, just like comics.

[alecholland]

On 2/9/2024 at 2:12 PM, Surfing Alien said:

Online buying and selling is soooo hit or miss. One of the "services" I guess I provide as a seller on the boards is a " filter" for all the c*r*a*p  I've bought online that looked high grade but weren't described or pictured right   I use comic terms and VF is about my highest grade. That's a real sharp book with very minor flaws.

I find the old bookman's terms of Good- Very Good-Fine completely useless for pbs and think they should be roundly kicked to the curb by the hobby as happened with comics eventually but there's no corralling the interwebs into that without more hobby centralization. People use terms like "acceptable" and "mint" and everything in between with no regard.

 That "More Than Human" is pretty but I have to say I almost fell on the floor when I saw his "Fahrenheit 451" - even with the dark cover inks that looks VF/NM maybe NM to me from the front. If the spine and back are similar it's very rare like that. Better than mine and a real treasure. I don't even know what kind of a price tag I'd put on that for sale as it's such a sought after author/title. A great find wherever you got it from Erich!

Well... it does have a couple issues and I'm not sure how to grade it. Here are a few more photos.

It has a bit of a bend to the bottom back cover which I didn't notice until I started taking photos. Also, one page extends out a bit from the book and is rough cut. It isn't loose, but it worries me a bit. In addition, when I opened the book slightly at the back pages it makes a bit of a cracking sound which made me even more worried about loose pages. None of them are loose currently, but it went straight back into a sleeve and back on my bookshelf. I'm worried if I mess with it too much it might cause a problem.

In hand, it still looks like it came straight off of a book rack. I don't think it's ever been read.

What are your thoughts? I'm not sure what grade to put in my spreadsheet.

 

Edited February 10 by alecholland

[Darwination]

I like a simple grading scale as well.  For PBs, just give me a good picture of the front, back, and spine, and I'm good to go.  I agree there can be a ton of difference between one seller's VF-NM-Unread and another's but one of the things I like about the paperback market is the simplicity.

I'm pretty much at a place with the PBs where I'm only looking for one of two things, either a cheap reader copy that still presents well that I can treat like, you know, a paperback, or a display copy which I hope to be the finest specimen I can find or afford and will never ever read (pb spines are so delicate and covers crease so easily ) 

Mostly the vintage PBs are a fun way to read a physical copy of a book for me, and the price is usually right in the ballpark of buying a used, more modern printing anyways.

[jimjum12]

What does it mean if a listing states "not in Holroyd"? GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Pat Calhoun]

Graham Holroyd put out a PB guide a while back, not sure how big print run was, but likely references that... I buy a lot from him via ABE...

[Pat Calhoun]

grading isn't my thing, but PB grading is unique enough to merit some comment. I'm comfy enough with the old G-VG-F but did like it when someone came out with SVG for Solid Very Good. Which leads to the other point: the imperfections of perfect binding. As (perhaps and no slur) with the Bradbury above a fair amount of the 'hi grade unread' copies are unread 'cause if you tried to open them you'd have confetti. Thus SVG means not only does the book present nicely but that it can be handled without courting catastrophe...

[johnenock]

On 2/9/2024 at 3:54 PM, Surfing Alien said:

Speaking of Pyramids, I got one in for the Friday Fun fest

 

No. 15  from 1949,  Palm Beach Apartment by Gail Jordan, chalk up another early number for the run. Cover art by George Geygan.

 

Also two more Zeniths. Making good inroads on this short series that is really the end run of Goodman's pb empire started with Lion. Fun fact: they are the last vintage paperback series alphabetically as well, they go from Ace to Zenith

 

ZB17, 1959, Death of the Party by Ruth Fenisong. Cover by Darcy/ Ernest Chiriaka

 

 

ZB37, 1959. The Girl Who Killed Things by Talmage Powell a PBO. Cool cover art is uncredited. Great title and it looks like a fun read as well.

 

 

Since I was digging around my Pyramids I threw together a group shot of some of the better titles.

 

Hope you enjoyed this break from reality

Really like the Beware the Lady book!

[Darwination]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:53 PM, Pat Calhoun said:

grading isn't my thing, but PB grading is unique enough to merit some comment. I'm comfy enough with the old G-VG-F but did like it when someone came out with SVG for Solid Very Good. Which leads to the other point: the imperfections of perfect binding. As (perhaps and no slur) with the Bradbury above a fair amount of the 'hi grade unread' copies are unread 'cause if you tried to open them you'd have confetti. Thus SVG means not only does the book present nicely but that it can be handled without courting catastrophe...

I like the word solid, too, Pat.  And it's kind of a problem I have with grading in general where the grade assigned often has more to do with cosmetic appearance than anything else.  When I get a comic or pulp in G or VG and it's described as solid with still supple pages, I know I can likely read the thing and breathe easy.  That is, there is merit in a book having been read because the pages have been flexed and tested.  Not so important for a display copy.

[Surfing Alien]

On 2/10/2024 at 12:48 PM, alecholland said:

Well... it does have a couple issues and I'm not sure how to grade it. Here are a few more photos.

It has a bit of a bend to the bottom back cover which I didn't notice until I started taking photos. Also, one page extends out a bit from the book and is rough cut. It isn't loose, but it worries me a bit. In addition, when I opened the book slightly at the back pages it makes a bit of a cracking sound which made me even more worried about loose pages. None of them are loose currently, but it went straight back into a sleeve and back on my bookshelf. I'm worried if I mess with it too much it might cause a problem.

In hand, it still looks like it came straight off of a book rack. I don't think it's ever been read.

What are your thoughts? I'm not sure what grade to put in my spreadsheet.

 

Still a stellar copy but tough to grade with that issue.

I'd really call that a qualified VF/NM. That's kind of what the 'qualified" grade is for right? Everything about the cover is eye watering, the little bit of wave doesn't bug me at that level, not calling it perfect mint. But the page sticking out does have to detract a bit, unfortunately it is a very common problem with early Ballantines, that glue dries out bad. It does almost look like the back section from that page back might be very slightly uneven?

As mentioned above, some of these are disasters waiting to happen if you open them wide without holding them tight at the spine. I've seen a ton of this title broken at the spine. There's a reason the story became a classic bestseller: tons of people read these early printings to death, passed them around etc. Combined with the poor glue and lasting popularity, most copies are pretty beat and nice copies get snapped up into collections.

[Surfing Alien]

On 2/10/2024 at 3:07 PM, johnenock said:

Really like the Beware the Lady book!

Great story to start with, killer GGA cover by Clarence Doore and real tough in high grade. Everything about it is likeable

[moonpool]

On 2/10/2024 at 12:48 PM, alecholland said:

Well... it does have a couple issues and I'm not sure how to grade it. Here are a few more photos.

It has a bit of a bend to the bottom back cover which I didn't notice until I started taking photos. Also, one page extends out a bit from the book and is rough cut. It isn't loose, but it worries me a bit. In addition, when I opened the book slightly at the back pages it makes a bit of a cracking sound which made me even more worried about loose pages. None of them are loose currently, but it went straight back into a sleeve and back on my bookshelf. I'm worried if I mess with it too much it might cause a problem.

In hand, it still looks like it came straight off of a book rack. I don't think it's ever been read.

What are your thoughts? I'm not sure what grade to put in my spreadsheet.

 

I would say vg/f

[Surfing Alien]

On 2/10/2024 at 11:27 AM, jimjum12 said:

For the record, I've never had an issue with anything I got from you, with the one tiny annoyance that they are usually sold out before I get to your thread. I do see what you mean about different grading scales, some eBayers sell an unread copy as Fine, some as a VF, and others as a NM. It very much pays to look at the scans. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Thanks Jim, I'm always providing at minimum, pics of the back and front and ample description, except for my couple of low price sales threads where I want to move faster and put one pic, but I will still always add notable defects in the description if I only show one pic.

I've had pretty good sell through, mostly because I've learned a bit through doing with the Boardies here. At this point, I can dig any book out of my boxes and have a good idea if it's a board sale book. A painting of a nice looking lady usually goes a long way, if she has a gun, all the better

 

 

 

[Surfing Alien]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:35 PM, moonpool said:

I would say vg/f

I would agree that would be an old bookman grading grade. I think I come very much out of comic book world where a VG/F is a decent looking book but has creases and a fair amount of edgewear. I just couldn't grade a pretty looking thing like that book with that grade. 

Which, I guess goes to show, it really is about the pictures provided and disclosure of defects that can't be seen in pics.

Edited February 10 by Surfing Alien

[OtherEric]

Some in today, courtesy of @Surfing Alien's latest sale.  I'll have more to post later once I scan them:

 

[alecholland]

On 2/10/2024 at 5:23 PM, Surfing Alien said:

Still a stellar copy but tough to grade with that issue.

I'd really call that a qualified VF/NM. That's kind of what the 'qualified" grade is for right? Everything about the cover is eye watering, the little bit of wave doesn't bug me at that level, not calling it perfect mint. But the page sticking out does have to detract a bit, unfortunately it is a very common problem with early Ballantines, that glue dries out bad. It does almost look like the back section from that page back might be very slightly uneven?

As mentioned above, some of these are disasters waiting to happen if you open them wide without holding them tight at the spine. I've seen a ton of this title broken at the spine. There's a reason the story became a classic bestseller: tons of people read these early printings to death, passed them around etc. Combined with the poor glue and lasting popularity, most copies are pretty beat and nice copies get snapped up into collections.

Thanks for the info Lowell! 

The other Ballantines I bought from this seller don't have this problem. Pages on all those are still very supple and glue hasn't dried out.

All in all, It's a beautiful display copy that I didn't pay too much for, so I'm still pretty happy.

[OtherEric]

And the Ace Doubles from @Surfing Alien today.  I already had a copy of D-193, but the cover was damaged, so this is a notable improvement:

[moonpool]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:44 PM, Surfing Alien said:

I would agree that would be an old bookman grading grade. I think I come very much out of comic book world where a VG/F is a decent looking book but has creases and a fair amount of edgewear. I just couldn't grade a pretty looking thing like that book with that grade. 

Which, I guess goes to show, it really is about the pictures provided and disclosure of defects that can't be seen in pics.

That's understandable.  With paper auctions in the 1990's, vg/f was a nice book and probably the best to be expected on keys. Straight fine (or super rare fine+) was rather uncommon.  Plus, for me, a little bit of interior paper issues is near the bottom of issues that bother me.