Movies and Hoarding Comic Books

[dam60]

Here's some food for thought:

 

It seems to be that major motion pictures tie directly into hoarding comic books. Take the first Batman movie in 1966. I'm not much of a Silver Age collector, but I hear (and correct me if I'm wrong) that it is substantially easier to find books in HG post 66 than pre. Could the movie have anything to do with it?

 

How about Superman in 1978? That really kicked off a long period of comic book related movies like Supes 1-4, Batman 1-4, etc. As a result, how often is it that a dealer ad in overstreet, CBG, etc. will say buying pre 1980 or even 1978 books?

 

Where am I going with this? Well it seems that what we have now is something a bit different. It would be hard to argue the fact that Spider-Man was one of the most successful movie releases ever. But now it doesn't seem to me that the hoarding that went on in the past has been happening now with books as can be demonstrated through the low print runs. Now I am not saying that comics aren't hoarded today, but just not by as many people to such a scale as before.

 

Therefore, would you say that in 50 years, if (and this is a big "if") the comic hobby continues as we know it, the books being produced today will be more valuable in HG on average than bronze and the modern age? Maybe even a few silvers?

 

Thoughts?

[icecube-migration]

If comic books don't get cheaper (money wise) there will be nobody to buy them or read them because they won't be able to afford them. In the 70's and 80's the books were only 40 cents and 60 cents now their $3.00 a pop. Most kids can not afford a lot of books. I used to buy all the marvel titles and most of the DC's but now I just pick up a few a month. Where will it lead, I think it's doomed but thats my 2 cents....

[OldGuy]

I feel about the same way you do. I spend about $20/week on new monthly books. That gets me 6 - 7 books a week. I buy the books I buy based on the fact that I refuse to spend more then $80/month on new books. If prices dropped I'd still spend $80/month and as a result I'd get more titles. But if prices continue to rise then I'll be dropping out of the new comic book market soon. I've hit my tolerance point.

[seank]

The question then raised is would we buy books if they were printed on cheap bronze-ageish paper and ink for less money or do we want the fancy glossy paper that is in vogue now? Or does the general public want glossy paper? Me, I'd rather have lower grade paper and ink for $1.00 or $1.50 instead of the gloss. What matters is the story and art, not what it's printed on, right?

[ninanina]

Right.

I can do without the fancy paper. Give me cheap Bronze-Age newsprint at a cheaper price & I would double the comics I'm reading now. Firstly, it would look more like a comic book should and it would be cheaper. Two huge pluses. Marvel/DC should make all their new comic titles using the cheap paper. It would not only be huge in terms of demand, but it would also give the new titles a "heads-up" on getting started. Why? Because of the price advantage over existing titles. Also, more people would be willing to take a chance on these new titles when they get started because of the lower prices. Can it really be so simple? All the press has to do is change the paper right? How hard can that be?

 

If it works, (and I see no reason why it shouldn't) they could slowly get this done to all their other titles. A huge 1st step in getting readership up. Doing nothing is only going to decrease readership in the long term. They market their product pretty decently, but I'm not sure if that's enough for the long term survival of New Comics or the hobby in general.

[vic6string]

Unfortunately, the comics inductry has changed over the last decade or so from an industry that caters to teens to one that caters to collectors. I look at the subscribers at my local shop, and almost all of them are in their late twenties or older...you almost have to be because of the cover prices and back issue prices. It used to be that the hot book would jump from 75 cents to 2 or 3 bucks the first month, then 5, and after a year or so it would be 10 or 15 dollars. I think the main thing was that the main price guide was a yearly. Since Wizard came out, it has all changed. Whatever the hot book is this week will go for ten times cover price by the next issue of Wizard (and cover price is 3 to 5 bucks). And that is for the regular cover, not the platinum cover, radioactive, signed-by-the-dead-hand of Jack Kirby, 1 of 3 copy which is the one you want. Even the few kids that read comics treat them like collectables, buying two copies and barely touching one of them because they know this will make them money. There are no more kids reading their folded up copies in bed or at school waiting for the bus. THe big companies need to make the hobby more accessible for youngsters, or they will keep playing their video games and watching their DVDs and eventually there will be no one left but us geezers!

[Zonker]

Batman books circa 1966 are indeed easier to find in all conditions than those before or after, but it was the TV show that led to increased sales, hence increased print runs, and greater supply surviving (including a greater supply of high grade perhaps almost by accident). There was indeed a movie, but the TV show was the big event. (I watched the latter seasons at age 4 or 5-- thought it was great / had no clue it was making fun of itself).

 

Big movie events like Superman or I suppose Spider-Man arguably give old fogeys like me an excuse to get back in to comics, and it's possible they lead to a spike in back issue prices as new money starts to chase after nostalgia.

 

I like the idea of cheaper paper and lower prices.

 

Also like the idea of a strategy for getting readers in to the hobby, something like

 

Spider-Man movie => ASM => F.F. => Avengers

or, for older readers, => USM => UXM => Ultimates

 

Justice League cartoon => JLA book => Flash => JSA =>Superman books, then gradually darker books like Aquaman, Batman, Green Arrow etc as the readers get older. (although I think we're long overdue for a lighter touch when it comes to the Batman).

 

Ramblin' On!

Z.

[chrisfuccione]

Just a coin collectors viewpoint. If anything the movies(if done well) will only help increase sales and draw new people into collecting and if a certin percent of them stick with it and collect older stuff the prices of back issues will only rise. As an example: look at all the people who are collecting state quarters. Lets say 1% of them stay on and go and collect older coins be it weat cents, Morgan dollars or Double Eagles there will be more demand. The same goes with people that start collecting because of the movies. CHRIS

[chrisfuccione]

Because I had two totaly diffrent things I wanted to say about this thread I felt it was better for me to seperate them.

 

I agree that the comic book companys have been shooting themselves in the foot lateley. With the higher prices and adult subject matter they are dismissing the teen and pre-teen market. It is ok to cater to an older market but not to focus only on that market. It is easyer to get someone in to the habit of collecting when they are preteen age than when they are in the twentys because they already haved formed opions on collecting and have found other intrests for thier free times where when they are younger they are open to try and collect dtuff if it seems that it would be fun. CHRIS

[COI]

"Therefore, would you say that in 50 years, if (and this is a big "if") the comic hobby continues as we know it, the books being produced today will be more valuable in HG on average than bronze and the modern age? Maybe even a few silvers?"

 

Not a chance. The reason Silver commands the price it does is due to scarcity in grade, not scarcity itself(for the most part). If you want a copy of most Silvers, they're relatively affordable if you don't care about grade.

 

Even with the historically low print runs, there's is too much awareness presently about the importance of condition, not to mention the various methods available for proper storage of the books. Therefore, even though print runs are low, a large percentage of existing copies will be in high grade, even 50 years from now. For that reason among others, today's books will never reach values achieved by silvers.

[vic6string]

I think that you may have a case in arguing that the modern books in general will sell for higher than bronze, or even silver...( I don't really agree, but there is a touch of logic to it) ... but that is only in the exceptionally low print run stuff. If there were only 40,000 copies of the latest FF book printed, then it may be safe to say that there will be fewer of those around 15 years from now than a 1970s FF book that had a print run of 400,000. But when talking about high grade, I would guess that 10,000 or more of the 40,000 will be in really nice shape for the modern book while there may only be 1000 of the 400,000 of the bronze book in comparable shape. So maybe raw good looking copies (7.0-8.5) will sell in the same ballpark, but the 9.0 and above stuff will still be much harder on the older stuff.

 

If Marvel printed an Ultimate Iron Fist #1 and ran only 25,000 copies, 10 years from now I would still rather have my Marvel Premiere 15 in 9.4 than a 9.6 (or even 9.8) Ultimate Iron Fist #1. Sure, there were ten times as many printed of the Premiere, but how many of those went straight from the distributer into a bag and board, or even straight to CGC? Not many (none in the case of CGC) whereas maybe 10% of the Ultimates book would go straight to CGC, and another 75-80% would go straight into a mylar or acid free bag/board (most of those unread).

 

Now, because of the print run, a copy that is better than a reader, but not a true high grade, might be the same price for both.

[COI]

But it's not just about condition. Significance plays a big role in the demand of a book. And I seriously doubt much will be coming out in the future that will have a significant key-role in the history of comics.

[Mister_Comics]

One of the biggest mistakes that the comic book industry made was catering to the collector. Making comics with fancy slick paper and all that fancy eye wash. As most can see the people going into the comic stores and cons and whatever, to buy comics, are older people. But the comic industry insists on changing every thing about comics. Killing off volumes, changing characters, ending runs, and whatnot. Now the older collector is mad because of the changes to the stories, not because of the book material. If the material was left as it was and the stories stayed true to the originals, I think the old collectors would of stayed with the collecting/reading, there would be more buyers and new kids would check out the comics. I believe the comics today scare new comic people off. They see these awsome looking comics and their afraid to buy them cause they have to handle them with care just because they look so nice. And then theres the price of the books. New comic people look at comics as something that is collected now. It use to be ya could go into any store and grab a comic off the rack, stick it in your back pocket, go play baseball or whatever, go home and read your creased up new comic and not have a worry in the world about it. But now the comic industry and others out there have made this hobby a expensive one and it very hard to get anyone new into something that is going to cost a lot of money. There really should be a line of less expensive comics that the avarage person off the street can buy with out worring about the care of the book. The average person doesn't care about the paper. You don't see the newspaper industry changing their paper. They know the paper get dumped after ya read it. this is how the comic industry should think about the comic. Back to the old type cheap paper, back to the type of stories of the past, and then there will be comic buyers again. And us true collectors can get back to bisiness collecting the real thing.

[drbanner]

Very well put Mister! There has been some discussion on this board that people are going to quit buying comics if the publishers don't start producing them such that they arrive at the retailers in NM. But I think people are going to quit buying comics if the comics themselves suck (art and writing)...publishers need to focus on producing quality comic books instead of quality collectibles.

[COI]

" There really should be a line of less expensive comics that the avarage person off the street can buy with out worring about the care of the book. The average person doesn't care about the paper. You don't see the newspaper industry changing their paper. They know the paper get dumped after ya read it. this is how the comic industry should think about the comic. "

 

I agree with your points, but don't you think that these inexpensive comics that people can fold and carry around carelessly would eventually become collectible? What happens when these younger or "newer" collectors grow up, or become financially stable? They may get a fit of nostalgia, and BAM! these comics turn into a hot commodity. History would just repeat itself. Perhaps the collectibility is inevitable?

[ninanina]

That's a great point. Seems that what today's publishers are doing, is creating a great looking COLLECTABLE; hence the fancy paper. And they are doing it because most of the people that buy comics today, collect them. Not a great way to get new readers, they're just looking after the established market.

Therefore, in order to go after a new market, they should concentrate on creating a great COMIC for the people that don't collect. All they want to do is read them. The way to do that would be to print a cheap comic, with cheap paper and distribute them again to the small grocery stores and drug stores. They gotta start somewhere. Get ads put in these comics to make them even cheaper. What would it take for Marvel or DC to hire someone to do the marketing. Just start with a chain of 7-11's. They could even BOTH set up a distributor to get it done. When that's established, and it will take time, they can branch out to more chains, and so on, and so on, and so on. Also, print westerns, war, love stories, archies and anything else the people will buy.

 

BUT MAKE IT CHEAP>

Compete with the chocolate bars and popcorn again for the kids $. I remember when I was a kid, I'd have to decide. Should I buy the chocolate bar for .10 cents, or should I buy the comic for .12 cents. Now its should I buy the comic for $2.50 or the chocolate bar for .75 cents. Guess who wins.....