THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[G.A.tor]

2 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

I seem to remember on the top of my head, that Sheen purchased the book from CC / Vince ? Might be wrong off course...

Sheen got out of collecting and sold all his books in 2004 iirc 

[Mr bla bla]

37 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Sheen got out of collecting and sold all his books in 2004 iirc 

Copy that. Thnx

[texmurphy2099]

this doesnt feel like the worlds worst time to buy a mid grade AF15....

[lou_fine]

8 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

9 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

14 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

Charlie Sheens 9.6 1.1 milly copy suddenly looks like a steal.

It wasn’t sheens, it belonged to Erik Roberts I believe ?

correct

Not sure if Charlie even owned a copy of AF 15 or not.  

I know that he owned a copy of Action 1 in something like CGC 6.5 grade which was also a restored copy if I remember correctly.

Bet that one would be worth a ton of money by now.  

[G.A.tor]

1 minute ago, lou_fine said:

Not sure if Charlie even owned a copy of AF 15 or not.  

I know that he owned a copy of Action 1 in something like CGC 6.5 grade which was also a restored copy if I remember correctly.

Bet that one would be worth a ton of money by now.  

Sheens old 6.5 sp is the 7.0 conserved that sold on clink last year for 450k

[lou_fine]

6 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

9 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I know that he owned a copy of Action 1 in something like CGC 6.5 grade which was also a restored copy if I remember correctly.

Bet that one would be worth a ton of money by now.  

Sheens old 6.5 sp is the 7.0 conserved that sold on clink last year for 450k

That's good to know and I just found the following link from Bledding Cool on the book:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/15/scoop-charlie-sheen’s-copy-of-action-comics-1-is-a-winner/

Looks like poor Charlie managed to get only $45,100 for the book when it first sold as a CGC 6.5 PLOD back in 2004.  

Wonder who the purchaser got to "unrestored" the book by reopening the tear seals and "uncleaning" the cover.  I guess they must have also opened the spine back up to get rid of the reinforcement which woudl not be that easy of a task.  

Must have been a magician if they was able to undo all of that work and still managed to get the book upgraded from a CGC 6.5 PLOD to a CGC 7.0 Conserved.    

[NoMan]

Charlie Sheen snatched up a vintage Zodiac moonphase watch from a dealer I used to buy from. I had already bought it and dealer turned around and sold it to sheen from under me cause dealer was a star-f- er.  Wasnt a big watch. A couple of grand. But I was pissed. F-ing punk move. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by NoMan

[peewee22]

29 minutes ago, NoMan said:

Charlie Sheen snatched up a vintage Zodiac moonphase watch from a dealer I used to buy from. I had already bought it and dealer turned around and sold it to sheen from under me cause dealer was a star-f- er.  Wasnt a big watch. A couple of grand. But I was pissed. F-ing punk move. 

I think C.S. is far behind on back child support. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by peewee22

[NoMan]

2 minutes ago, peewee22 said:

I think C.S. is far behind on backpay child support.

Friend working on Sheen set back in the bad days played a game with other crew members called What’s The Weirdest Thing Charlie’s Gonna Pull Out Of His Pocket Today?  

Answer: A day old half eaten slice of pizza.  

[peewee22]

1 minute ago, NoMan said:

Friend working on Sheen set back in the bad days played a game with other crew members called What’s The Weirdest Thing Charlie’s Gonna Pull Out Of His Pocket Today?  

Answer: A day old half eaten slice of pizza.  

Better than a balled up Action 1.

[VintageComics]

On 6/11/2019 at 2:37 AM, Mr bla bla said:

Charlie Sheens 9.6 1.1 milly copy suddenly looks like a steal.

Charlie didn't buy that book.

On 6/11/2019 at 2:46 AM, lou_fine said:

once they could see how much money was being made previously by the lucky few who were in the know.  

Pressing wasn't a secret. Books were being pressed before CGC was ever opened for business.

From what I understand Marnin pressed the Mass books before they were brought to market in the 1990s.

CGCs pressing service was kept under wraps for a shot time but that's normal with any product launch as stuff gets ironed out. The only reason it became controversial was because people felt left out (and that it was considered a conflict of interest) but it was going to eventually be a public service. It just didn't' make it that far at the time.

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

On 6/10/2019 at 11:46 PM, lou_fine said:

once they could see how much money was being made previously by the lucky few who were in the know.  

Pressing wasn't a secret. Books were being pressed before CGC was ever opened for business.

As I am sure you are fully aware and failing to point out though, not anywhere close to the extent that standalone pressing is being done to nowadays where it seems to almost be a prerequsite for a book prior to having it graded.  

Especially when standalone pressing was clearly recognized as restoration in those days.

 

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

From what I understand Marnin pressed the Mass books before they were brought to market in the 1990s.

Was this the only major time that standalone pressing was done because the everybody seems to keep coming up with this same one example to prove that pressing was also rampant back in the days prior to CGC, which was definitely NOT the case?  

I just find it so ironic and kind of funny that it was Marnin who tried to start that ill-fated NOD movement when the whole pressing fisaco first came to light.      Any idea where he is or whatever happened to him?  

 

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

CGCs pressing service was kept under wraps for a shot time but that's normal with any product launch as stuff gets ironed out.

I would have to totally disagree with you on this particular point because you just have to take a look at companies like Apple, the video game industry, the movies, or almost any other companies whereby they always try to launch new products and/or services with as much proactive hype as possible.  The only time they don't is when they view it as a possible negative side deterrent such as shorter battery life and then they quietly sneak it past the buying public without proactively informing them on the consequences.  I also don't view 5 years as a short time to get things ironed out.  

Being a business, I do totally understand why CCG did not proactively promote or reveal the fact that they would now be viewing pressing as a "maximization of a book's potential" because that would NEVER EVER had been accepted by the collecting base as the long held standard was that standalone pressing was deemed to be restoration.  History has now clearly shown that this was the only way that they could have gotten it through was by not informing the collecting base upfront and instead, by retroactively showing them how much money they would be giving up across the board if they didn't let this continue.  

Edited June 12, 2019 by lou_fine

[namisgr]

6 hours ago, VintageComics said:

From what I understand Marnin pressed the Mass books before they were brought to market in the 1990s.

No he didn't.  He had a small handful of the earliest issue FFs and/or Spideys pressed.  The vast, vast majority of Massachusetts pedigree comics came to market unpressed and virtually all at once in 1993.  It's only in the intervening years as pressing and encapsulation have become cottage industries that so many of the original owner pedigree books that first came to market in the '80s and '90s could fit such a blanket statement.

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by namisgr

[VintageComics]

7 hours ago, lou_fine said:

As I am sure you are fully aware and failing to point out though, not anywhere close to the extent that standalone pressing is being done to nowadays where it seems to almost be a prerequsite for a book prior to having it graded.  

But that isn't really the point. The point is that it wasn't some secret thing. It just wasn't well known, but those that knew did it.

7 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Was this the only major time that standalone pressing was done because the everybody seems to keep coming up with this same one example to prove that pressing was also rampant back in the days prior to CGC, which was definitely NOT the case?  

No, but it is a well known (and popular example). Others did it too.

7 hours ago, lou_fine said:

As I am sure you are fully aware and failing to point out though, not anywhere close to the extent that standalone pressing is being done to nowadays where it seems to almost be a prerequsite for a book prior to having it graded.   

Especially when standalone pressing was clearly recognized as restoration in those days.

 

Was this the only major time that standalone pressing was done because the everybody seems to keep coming up with this same one example to prove that pressing was also rampant back in the days prior to CGC, which was definitely NOT the case?  

I just find it so ironic and kind of funny that it was Marnin who tried to start that ill-fated NOD movement when the whole pressing fisaco first came to light.      Any idea where he is or whatever happened to him?  

 

I would have to totally disagree with you on this particular point because you just have to take a look at companies like Apple, the video game industry, the movies, or almost any other companies whereby they always try to launch new products and/or services with as much proactive hype as possible.  The only time they don't is when they view it as a possible negative side deterrent such as shorter battery life and then they quietly sneak it past the buying public without proactively informing them on the consequences.  I also don't view 5 years as a short time to get things ironed out.  

Being a business, I do totally understand why CCG did not proactively promote or reveal the fact that they would now be viewing pressing as a "maximization of a book's potential" because that would NEVER EVER had been accepted by the collecting base as the long held standard was that standalone pressing was deemed to be restoration.  History has now clearly shown that this was the only way that they could have gotten it through was by not informing the collecting base upfront and instead, by retroactively showing them how much money they would be giving up across the board if they didn't let this continue.  

The main point is that it was going to be a public service.

And I don't think it went on for 5 years but I could be wrong.

[VintageComics]

7 hours ago, namisgr said:

No he didn't.  He had a small handful of the earliest issue FFs and/or Spideys pressed.  The vast, vast majority of Massachusetts pedigree comics came to market unpressed and virtually all at once in 1993.  It's only in the intervening years as pressing and encapsulation have become cottage industries that so many of the original owner pedigree books that first came to market in the '80s and '90s could fit such a blanket statement.

 

That's because 26 years ago it wasn't worth pressing most of the collection.

You could buy a high grade Hulk #181 for $200-300 at the time and a Daredevil #1 wouldn't have been a very expensive book (I can't remember what it would have cost in grade) so it seems that he pressed anything that would be worth pressing - which would have been the earliest ASM and FF books as those were the two most expensive runs.

Fast forward today and people still generally only press books that are financially viable to press. There were just less books that were financially viable back in the day.

[namisgr]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

That's because 26 years ago it wasn't worth pressing most of the collection.

That's not true either.  It cost me a few thousand dollars to buy a handful of Massachusetts pedigree Marvels when Marnin brought them to market in '93, and that was for a small number of books and didn't even include any of the major keys.  It was never Marnin's approach to press a lot of books.  He dabbled with it by having Susan press some of the early ASM issues.  The FFs weren't pressed, the JIMs weren't pressed, and the early SA DCs weren't pressed, just offered to old customers from Marnin's mailing list and to collectors at large through ads in The Buyer's Guide.  They sold raw for multiples of Overstreet guide. Shortly thereafter, he also bought a large portion of Calvin Slobodian's personal collection and brought it to market, and they weren't pressed en masse either.  It just wasn't done at anywhere near the scale that became popular in the '00s, and certainly not by Marnin who didn't favor the process, and not by Susan whose business was focused on painstaking restoration of big ticket books and not on pressing.

The statement you made that Marnin pressed the Mass books before they were brought to market in the 1990s isn't right.  Pressing became commonplace for the pedigree, as it did for many others like the White Mountain, Pacific Coast, Northland, and other SA peds, in the '00s after the advent of CGC and the explosion of pressing businesses and the crack/press/resubmit cycle.  Only then did it become virtually impossible to collect extensive runs of high grade early SA comics that hadn't been manipulated.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by namisgr

[VintageComics]

2 hours ago, namisgr said:

The statement you made that Marnin pressed the Mass books before they were brought to market in the 1990s isn't right.

Marnin pressed the Mass books.

He just didn't press the entire collection.

But again, the point of the statement was to show that pressing was being done before CGC was around.

2 hours ago, namisgr said:

Pressing became commonplace for the pedigree, as it did for many others like the White Mountain, Pacific Coast, Northland, and other SA peds, in the '00s after the advent of CGC and the explosion of pressing businesses and the crack/press/resubmit cycle.

Pressing became commonplace because profit made it so. It's a natural progression in any economy. If someone finds money to be made it will be exploited.

As it become more profitable to press books (as the rose in value) the incidence in pressing increased.

If values didn't rise the way they did, you wouldn't have as many pressed books.

[namisgr]

13 hours ago, lou_fine said:

As I am sure you are fully aware and failing to point out though, not anywhere close to the extent that standalone pressing is being done to nowadays where it seems to almost be a prerequsite for a book prior to having it graded.  

Especially when standalone pressing was clearly recognized as restoration in those days.

 

Was this the only major time that standalone pressing was done because the everybody seems to keep coming up with this same one example to prove that pressing was also rampant back in the days prior to CGC, which was definitely NOT the case?  

I believe Roy would like everyone to conveniently forget this.

If X pressed 10 comics from a collection of 10,000 books, he "pressed the collection" is the spin despite it not holding true for 99.9% of the collection.  And even then, it's unusual for the day.  The Pacific Coast collection was more typical of the day, with none of it having been pressed before being put up for sale.  Since the advent of CGC, it's another thing entirely when, in contrast, the Twin Cities or Rocky Mountain pedigrees come to market with issues pressed by the hundreds.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by namisgr

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Fast forward today and people still generally only press books that are financially viable to press. There were just less books that were financially viable back in the day.

Roy;

I hate to tell you this, but I am quite sure they also had new books distributed to the LCS's on a weekly basis prior to CGC opening their doors.    

I certainly don't remember anybody talking about sending them off for pressing back then, like what they do nowadays in search of their pressing need to search for those 9.8's and much hope for 9.9's. 

[lou_fine]

6 hours ago, VintageComics said:

The main point is that it was going to be a public service.

And I don't think it went on for 5 years but I could be wrong.

My bad, as usual you are once again correct as it was not 5 years as I had incorrectly stated: 

Year 1     2000

Year 2     2001

Year 3     2002

Year 4     2003

Year 5     2004

Year 6     2005

Looks like it was in actual fac,t 6 years before CGC retroactively announced to the collecting world that pressing was no longer considered to be restoration as everybody had thought at the time.  It was instead, really nothing more than "maximizing the potential of a book" and this was in fact, how CGC had always viewed it.   Opps, did we forget to inform everybody about this tiny little insignificant point.  

This is not rocket science that we are talking about as I certainly don't think it should have taken them 6 years to iron out all of the kinkss before publicly launching this service.  Especially since it had already been privately launched 6 years prior when they first opened their doors.  If I remember correctly, I believe it was not until all of those before and after scans of books by boardies like Masterchief and RedHook that showed books with significant undisclosed upgrades that brought this whole fisaco to light.  

If standalone pressing was as common as you are now trying to make it out to be, why was there such an uproar on these boards here when it first came to light back in 2005?  Similarly, why did it take Overstreet until the 2007 edition of the guide to move pressing out from his restoration definition in his glossary and give it its own separate definition as a direct result of what had taken place?