Do CGC comics not qualify for Media Mail now?

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

ps every troll thinks they're 'pointing out stupidities'-that's troll 101. not a good look.

 

And every intellectually dishonest coward uses the same "you're a troll" defense when they have nothing else to back up their bs. Their next move involves spinning it using buzzwords that have nothing to do with the discussion but sound good to the gullible and weak minded.

 

It would be a refreshing change if the people like you that are trying to wind people up because they have nothing better to do would just own it but I guess that is too much to ask.

 

Can we just stipulate that I suck and you're great and move on? All this bickering has gotta be exasperating to the other members, who actually want to discuss comics.

 

And I already did the refreshing change on the other thread where I admitted I was wrong.

 

I can't even begin to go back through that mess but if you admitted you were wrong about flat out lying and calling pretty much everyone in there dishonest scammers and everyone who had the audacity to disagree with you a troll, then good for you.

 

Have a nice life.

 

My life is pretty good. So we're done?

 

Hi Tiny .

 

 

here we go again. Can we stipulate i'm a loser and whatever shill you want to name and please get back to discussing comics??? Think of the other members!

 

Didn't you admit it?

[kav]

ps every troll thinks they're 'pointing out stupidities'-that's troll 101. not a good look.

 

And every intellectually dishonest coward uses the same "you're a troll" defense when they have nothing else to back up their bs. Their next move involves spinning it using buzzwords that have nothing to do with the discussion but sound good to the gullible and weak minded.

 

It would be a refreshing change if the people like you that are trying to wind people up because they have nothing better to do would just own it but I guess that is too much to ask.

 

Can we just stipulate that I suck and you're great and move on? All this bickering has gotta be exasperating to the other members, who actually want to discuss comics.

 

And I already did the refreshing change on the other thread where I admitted I was wrong.

 

I can't even begin to go back through that mess but if you admitted you were wrong about flat out lying and calling pretty much everyone in there dishonest scammers and everyone who had the audacity to disagree with you a troll, then good for you.

 

Have a nice life.

 

My life is pretty good. So we're done?

 

Hi Tiny .

 

 

here we go again. Can we stipulate i'm a loser and whatever shill you want to name and please get back to discussing comics??? Think of the other members!

 

Didn't you admit it?

 

huh? Maybe I'm slow but could you paste the statement where I admitted such a thing? Or, we could get back to discussing comics....

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

ps every troll thinks they're 'pointing out stupidities'-that's troll 101. not a good look.

 

And every intellectually dishonest coward uses the same "you're a troll" defense when they have nothing else to back up their bs. Their next move involves spinning it using buzzwords that have nothing to do with the discussion but sound good to the gullible and weak minded.

 

It would be a refreshing change if the people like you that are trying to wind people up because they have nothing better to do would just own it but I guess that is too much to ask.

 

Can we just stipulate that I suck and you're great and move on? All this bickering has gotta be exasperating to the other members, who actually want to discuss comics.

 

And I already did the refreshing change on the other thread where I admitted I was wrong.

 

I can't even begin to go back through that mess but if you admitted you were wrong about flat out lying and calling pretty much everyone in there dishonest scammers and everyone who had the audacity to disagree with you a troll, then good for you.

 

Have a nice life.

 

My life is pretty good. So we're done?

 

Hi Tiny .

 

 

here we go again. Can we stipulate i'm a loser and whatever shill you want to name and please get back to discussing comics??? Think of the other members!

 

Didn't you admit it?

 

huh? Maybe I'm slow but could you paste the statement where I admitted such a thing? Or, we could get back to discussing comics....

 

Isn't it in the link?

 

So you're saying you're not Tiny? Cuz he created shills too.

[kav]

So anyway, Buzz-what were you saying about Diamond boxes?

[Boboset]

You seem to have a death wish for the ban hammer kav.

 

[kav]

So Buzz your post office guy says comics are ok for MM?

What makes you so special?

[Buzzetta]

Post office I use knows that the Diamond Shipping Boxes that are labeled Comic Books contain comic books. When asked, I reply comic books. They say okay.

 

:shrug:

 

I ship large amounts of older raw books out this way, never slabs.

 

ship me some AF 15's that you don't need

 

There is a slight chance I may quit my job this spring or summer. If I do I will be selling my entire collection before I do so I may take a year off, refocus, reflect and decide how I want to spend the next 15 years. I will let you know.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Didn't expect to get a 3rd degree here though

 

Thanks guys

This is CG, no?

 

Comics have never qualified for Media Mail.

 

Media Mail is the slowest form of shipping through the post office.

 

Media Mail is also subjected to the most amount of handling and therefore prone to more damage.

 

I remember something about the post office not returning Media Mail if it is undeliverable but I could be wrong.

 

This is listed all over the USPS website.

 

Google tells you all about Media Mail as well as the fallacy of the USPS losing money.

 

There have been more than one thread devoted to this same subject on this website.

 

I am gonna go with no on the third degree thing.

 

The fact is that even within PO personnel there is disagreement on this issue. I have also sent hundreds of comics via medial mail and never had an issue. I did tell the post master at one PO what was in the package, and he told me comics could not be sent via Media Mail.

 

However, a very knowledgeable Post Master at another local PO told me (albeit a few years ago now) that it is ok to mail older comics IF the advertising were no longer applicable. He argued that older comics with out-of-date advertising were considered vintage magazines and fell within the purview of Media Mail because those adverts could no longer be used and were part of the vintage aspect of the "book". So, the question becomes, is it still an advertisement if it is no longer active, or does the ad then become part of the vintage or antique aspect of the package.

 

Of course, you won't get a chance to argue this point of view with someone who doesn't see it this way. But those "ads" in ASM 9 are interesting from a vintage collector's perspective, totally useless from a marketing perspective, which is what the Media Mail rule is meant to address.

 

This is stated well here, but I'll add a few things to it:

 

Comics with EXPIRED advertising absolutely qualify for Media Mail, by the post office's own definitions.

 

Why?

 

Because expired advertising, by definition, is NOT advertising. If what it advertises is no longer available or is in the past, it no longer serves its function, and can therefore no longer be called advertising.

 

It is now to be considered archival information...and since archival information falls well within both the spirit and letter of the media mail regulations, there is no problem.

 

Why do I say spirit of the regulation? What is this about, anyways?

 

The "no advertising" regulation was put in place so that periodicals...that is, publications that come out periodically, like magazines, comics, etc...which get a special discount rate from the USPS already...could not then be shipped via the cheaper-still media mail rate, which used to be called "book rate."

 

That's where the "no advertising" came from: since periodicals essentially pay for themselves via advertising, it was easy to identify which were "educational" (that is, "media"), and which were not. If it had advertising, it was not allowed.

 

Which rightfully includes NEW comics, with current advertising.

 

But when that advertising is no longer valid, it is not, and cannot be, by definition, "advertising." It becomes archival information, that is, using the post office's term, it is wholly reading matter, and falls perfectly into that "educational" frame that media mail was intended to support. It does not qualify for that special 2nd class periodical rate, because that original discount mailing for the comic when it was "new" is long in the past, having already been completed, or never having been shipped through the USPS in the first place (that is, instead through the Direct Market.)

 

I don't use Media Mail hardly at all, mainly because of the already mentioned predilection for damage, but if a comic is...say...2 years old or so, the advertising is quite clearly no longer valid, and thus is perfectly ok to ship via media mail...per the post office's own regulations.

[Boboset]

What about this example?

 

I just opened up a Marvel comic from 1975 and it contains one of those goofy Hostess pies advertisements. It doesn't list a suggested retail price and the flavors, cherry and apple, are still readily available at retail.

 

Even though the the ad is nearly 40 years old, it's still advertising a current product.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

What about this example?

 

I just opened up a Marvel comic from 1975 and it contains one of those goofy Hostess pies advertisements. It doesn't list a suggested retail price and the flavors, cherry and apple, are still readily available at retail.

 

Even though the the ad is nearly 40 years old, it's still advertising a current product.

 

 

Not at all.

 

It's advertising this:

 

 

...while Hostess currently sells this:

 

 

While similar...it's not the same product, and therefore isn't current advertising. For it to be the same product, EVERYTHING (including the packaging) would have to be identical in every way.

 

This may seem like semantics, but remember that this is an arm of the government we're talking about, though a pretty independent one. Semantics is their stock-in-trade.

 

Good example, though!

[Boboset]

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

That was the exact same ad I found too.

 

The problem with this, the application of it and not the logic, is that I doubt you could convince a postal worker to ship comics via media mail with that reasoning. I'm talking about the postal workers whose minds you would have to change. And I don't mean just the Hostess advertisements, I mean all of them, even the ones that advertise Sea Monkeys and Submarines.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

That was the exact same ad I found too.

 

Sweet!

 

The problem with this, the application of it and not the logic, is that I doubt you could convince a postal worker to ship comics via media mail with that reasoning. I'm talking about the postal workers whose minds you would have to change. And I don't mean just the Hostess advertisements, I mean all of them, even the ones that advertise Sea Monkeys and Submarines.

 

 

If a postal worker won't do it, don't waste time, ask for the supervisor. If the supervisor refuses, make an appointment with the postmaster. If the postmaster refuses, find another post office. Usually, though, postmasters have enough sense to realize what you're saying, if you explain it as archival reading matter.

 

I'm currently having a problem with adding insurance to an international package. They keep claiming that they have to charge full price if I do ANYTHING at the window, but the USPS and eBay have set it up so that you MUST go to the window. Why, then, have the discount at all?

[Boboset]

Wish I could help you on the international insurance situation you're facing. Like a lot of US sellers, I gave up on international sales due to the all the headaches.

 

Personally, I wouldn't go through the chain of command to get media mail acceptance. More power to anyone who would do that, I see that strategy as having success if they would choose to do so.

 

On the rare occasions I do send comics via media mail, my post office never bats an eye.

[lizards2]

The problem with your logic here, not that I don't follow it, is that the average person is going to say, "Comic books? Educational? :screwy:"

 

But when that advertising is no longer valid, it is not, and cannot be, by definition, "advertising." It becomes archival information, that is, using the post office's term, it is wholly reading matter, and falls perfectly into that "educational" frame that media mail was intended to support.

[skypinkblu]

Didn't expect to get a 3rd degree here though…

 

Thanks guys

This is CG, no?

 

Comics have never qualified for Media Mail.

 

Media Mail is the slowest form of shipping through the post office.

 

Media Mail is also subjected to the most amount of handling and therefore prone to more damage.

 

I remember something about the post office not returning Media Mail if it is undeliverable but I could be wrong.

 

This is listed all over the USPS website.

 

Google tells you all about Media Mail as well as the fallacy of the USPS losing money.

 

There have been more than one thread devoted to this same subject on this website.

 

I am gonna go with no on the third degree thing.

 

The fact is that even within PO personnel there is disagreement on this issue. I have also sent hundreds of comics via medial mail and never had an issue. I did tell the post master at one PO what was in the package, and he told me comics could not be sent via Media Mail.

 

However, a very knowledgeable Post Master at another local PO told me (albeit a few years ago now) that it is ok to mail older comics IF the advertising were no longer applicable. He argued that older comics with out-of-date advertising were considered vintage magazines and fell within the purview of Media Mail because those adverts could no longer be used and were part of the vintage aspect of the "book". So, the question becomes, is it still an advertisement if it is no longer active, or does the ad then become part of the vintage or antique aspect of the package.

 

Of course, you won't get a chance to argue this point of view with someone who doesn't see it this way. But those "ads" in ASM 9 are interesting from a vintage collector's perspective, totally useless from a marketing perspective, which is what the Media Mail rule is meant to address.

 

I've spoken to 2 Post Masters and the regional office where I live and they all said shipping older (not current) comics was fine. I only used media for large lots of rather cheap comics, or lower grade books. I'd never ship a cgc book that way, because it is A. too fragile, and B. I see it as a collectible and not a book since you can't read it if it's slabbed.

 

Last year someone posted something about comics being specifically excluded,with a quote from the PO and after reading that I stopped using Media except in one incident when a friend asked me to, but that quote no longer appears on the website and again, the Post Master told me it was OK to ship old books, so just sent a box of old reprints yesterday.

 

The packages can be opened. I've only had one opened in maybe 12 years. They just closed it up, put on a note that it was opened, and sent it on. They did not ask for more postage.

 

I did send a friend a box of paperback books and those somehow got lost, they returned the label to me with no box attached. Those I had sent priority, . :shrug:

 

[jools&jim]

 

Ask five different clerks and five different postmasters about Media Mail, and you're likely to get fifteen different answers ( ) . A quasi-governmental agency is still the government, so that's no surprise. And even the posted regulations are sometimes conflicting and self-contradictory.

 

Here is the only formal, written USPS prohibition specifically excluding comic books from Media Mail service which I have ever been able to find on-line, from October of 2012:

 

http://about.usps.com/notices/not121/not121_tech.htm

 

Media Mail shipping is a cost-effective way to send educational materials. This service has restrictions on the type of media that can be shipped. Media Mail rates are limited to the items listed below:

 

Books (at least 8 pages).

Sound recordings and video recordings, such as CDs and DVDs.

Play scripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music.

Printed music.

Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.

Sixteen millimeter or narrower width films.

Printed objective test materials and their accessories.

Printed educational reference charts.

Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students.

 

Media - printed music, sound recordings, periodicals, CDs, DVDs, and books.

 

Media Mail packages may not contain advertising. Comic books do not meet this standard. Books may contain incidental announcements of other books and sound recordings may contain incidental announcements of other sound recordings. In accordance with standards in the Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), Section 170, Media Mail packages must have a delivery address and the sender’s return address and are subject to inspection by the Postal Service™. Upon such inspection, matter not eligible for the Media Mail rate may be assessed at the proper price and sent to the recipient postage due, or the sender may be contacted for additional postage.

My local PO has been VERY strict about Media Mail for the past 2 years at least. It may take awhile to filter through the system, but my sense of it is that there will soon be formal measures in place vis-a-vis comics and MM which no amount of "lawyering" of the admittedly arcane regs will be able to undo.

 

 

 

[miraclemet]

Why I don't use media mail.

 

1. The media mail is interpreted in a wide variety of ways by the PO, so I never know who will interpret it which way.

2. The guy that I get the "ok" from is not the only guy doing media mail checks. So even if I get the "ok" for guy 1, guy 2 may have a different idea.

3. Media mail spends more time "in the system" than any other method. Given USPS's history of losing and damaging packages, why would you want your package to spend MORE time in the system?

 

I know the penalties are typically painless (just paying the difference in postage rates), but unless its low dollar trades, I'm avoiding media.

[Buzzetta]

Didn't expect to get a 3rd degree here though

 

Thanks guys

This is CG, no?

 

Comics have never qualified for Media Mail.

 

Media Mail is the slowest form of shipping through the post office.

 

Media Mail is also subjected to the most amount of handling and therefore prone to more damage.

 

I remember something about the post office not returning Media Mail if it is undeliverable but I could be wrong.

 

This is listed all over the USPS website.

 

Google tells you all about Media Mail as well as the fallacy of the USPS losing money.

 

There have been more than one thread devoted to this same subject on this website.

 

I am gonna go with no on the third degree thing.

 

The fact is that even within PO personnel there is disagreement on this issue. I have also sent hundreds of comics via medial mail and never had an issue. I did tell the post master at one PO what was in the package, and he told me comics could not be sent via Media Mail.

 

However, a very knowledgeable Post Master at another local PO told me (albeit a few years ago now) that it is ok to mail older comics IF the advertising were no longer applicable. He argued that older comics with out-of-date advertising were considered vintage magazines and fell within the purview of Media Mail because those adverts could no longer be used and were part of the vintage aspect of the "book". So, the question becomes, is it still an advertisement if it is no longer active, or does the ad then become part of the vintage or antique aspect of the package.

 

Of course, you won't get a chance to argue this point of view with someone who doesn't see it this way. But those "ads" in ASM 9 are interesting from a vintage collector's perspective, totally useless from a marketing perspective, which is what the Media Mail rule is meant to address.

 

This is stated well here, but I'll add a few things to it:

 

Comics with EXPIRED advertising absolutely qualify for Media Mail, by the post office's own definitions.

 

Why?

 

Because expired advertising, by definition, is NOT advertising. If what it advertises is no longer available or is in the past, it no longer serves its function, and can therefore no longer be called advertising.

 

It is now to be considered archival information...and since archival information falls well within both the spirit and letter of the media mail regulations, there is no problem.

 

Why do I say spirit of the regulation? What is this about, anyways?

 

The "no advertising" regulation was put in place so that periodicals...that is, publications that come out periodically, like magazines, comics, etc...which get a special discount rate from the USPS already...could not then be shipped via the cheaper-still media mail rate, which used to be called "book rate."

 

That's where the "no advertising" came from: since periodicals essentially pay for themselves via advertising, it was easy to identify which were "educational" (that is, "media"), and which were not. If it had advertising, it was not allowed.

 

Which rightfully includes NEW comics, with current advertising.

 

But when that advertising is no longer valid, it is not, and cannot be, by definition, "advertising." It becomes archival information, that is, using the post office's term, it is wholly reading matter, and falls perfectly into that "educational" frame that media mail was intended to support. It does not qualify for that special 2nd class periodical rate, because that original discount mailing for the comic when it was "new" is long in the past, having already been completed, or never having been shipped through the USPS in the first place (that is, instead through the Direct Market.)

 

I don't use Media Mail hardly at all, mainly because of the already mentioned predilection for damage, but if a comic is...say...2 years old or so, the advertising is quite clearly no longer valid, and thus is perfectly ok to ship via media mail...per the post office's own regulations.

 

This is how it was explained to me years ago.

If the postal clerk is okay with it, then I am okay with it.

[silverweb]

When I ship slabs, I always use Priority double-boxed. Two pounds and non-flat rate is $10 tops. The price is reasonable. Why take chances on a cracked slab. I hate receiving them and I dont want my buyers to experience that. If the destination is close to California, then its really cheap. For a lot of raw comics, I probably would consider Media Mail.

 

And I like their new free delivery conf and $50 insurance that comes with Priority mail!

[InvstmntComcSuply]

 

...expired advertising, by definition, is NOT advertising. If what it advertises is no longer available or is in the past, it no longer serves its function, and can therefore no longer be called advertising.

 

I could easily argue your assertion from either side, however the important thing to consider is, while your argument might convince the majority of postal workers you personally interact with to acquiesce, it will be the ones that you do NOT interact with, that will open your package along the way and hit your recipient with upcharges to Priority rates.

 

The USPS makes no distinction between expired and current advertising, nor should they. It simply is not logical nor efficient for the millions of packages that ARE inspected, for the inspector to be forced to make a determination of "Is this advertising still valid?" Slippery slope and what not.