Iron Man #1

[Kevin Boyd]

Come on, this is becoming a little weird. Talking about a fictional character, in a fictional timeline as if he's real and must adhere to our reality. Call up Ian Fleming's estate and make sure they destroy all those old books and movies. Bond could never have been fighting during the Cold War and still young and active in the 21st century.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that these characters are real.

 

The point that most people are trying to make is that the past in a fictional character's timeline is the past, there's no point in going back and changing it. Move on and tell new stories, reference it if you want, but move on.

 

Bond movies don't spend hours dwelling on where Bond has been, they focus on what needs to be done NOW... the immediate threat. Each movie starts with the premise that James Bond is a secret agent... now go.

 

Iron Man is a guy in a metal suit who is also a genius billionaire industrialist/weapons manufacturer... now go.

[Tango 'n Cash]

The point that most people are trying to make is that the past in a fictional character's timeline is the past, there's no point in going back and changing it. Move on and tell new stories, reference it if you want, but move on.

 

Bond movies don't spend hours dwelling on where Bond has been, they focus on what needs to be done NOW... the immediate threat. Each movie starts with the premise that James Bond is a secret agent... now go.

 

That is what I was attempting to say, but it probably came out wrong. The only person who cares about IM's backstory is Ennis, not the readers.

[rob_react]

That is what I was attempting to say, but it probably came out wrong. The only person who cares about IM's backstory is Ennis, not the readers.

 

I'd say, based on the response in this thread at least, that at least some readers REALLY care about his backstory (assuming all the people who commented are readers.)

[Kevin Boyd]

That is what I was attempting to say, but it probably came out wrong. The only person who cares about IM's backstory is Ennis, not the readers.

 

I disagree with that. I think the readers, especially the ones who have been reading Iron Man for decades (can't say I'm one) have invested their time and interest in following the adventures of that character. They don't really appreciate that what they had accepted as canon has been revised so dramatically. Korea to Viet Nam isn't a big deal (as most readers see them as similar), Viet Nam to the Middle East is a big jump.

 

Fundamentally it's the same... he's in a troubled part of the world... he makes weapons... he's injured... he creates the armor to save his life.

 

It would be like saying that Bond was trained by the Americans then went to work for MI6. It doesn't change much, he's still a secret agent working for the Brits, but it would mean something to all of the people that had understood that he was a product of MI6 training based on Fleming's novels.

[Tango 'n Cash]

I disagree with that. I think the readers, especially the ones who have been reading Iron Man for decades (can't say I'm one) have invested their time and interest in following the adventures of that character.

 

Once again I am not putting my point across. My statement was meant to say that the only people who sit around worrying "Wait a minute, Stark is 30 and he was in the Viet Nam war? That is crazy." backstory are likely Ennis and a couple of the more anal-realistic readers. The rest of the readers are just interested in the character and want to see new stories.

 

I watch Bond movies and do not care if he is the same age or even younger in the latest flick as he was in Dr No. It's fiction and the character is the important ingredient.

[Darthdiesel]

"Korea to Viet Nam isn't a big deal (as most readers see them as similar),"

 

Not Koreans and Vietnamese readers?

[awe4one]

Once again I am not putting my point across. My statement was meant to say that the only people who sit around worrying "Wait a minute, Stark is 30 and he was in the Viet Nam war? That is crazy." backstory are likely Ennis and a couple of the more anal-realistic readers. The rest of the readers are just interested in the character and want to see new stories.

 

I disagree. I'm willing to bet a large segment of older readers are miffed when major changes are thrown at them from left field.

 

And I say "older readers" because Marvel used to be a publisher that embraced it's continuity. It encouraged it's readers to follow along. Over the last 20 years this continuity has, at first slowly, cascaded to the point where different comics release the same month featuring the same characters don't relate to each other.

 

But when thinking about it some more...maybe you're right on some fundamental level. Those that did care have probably given up any hope that Marvel would finally get it's act together and reconstitute any semblance of continuity. But then again, those readers have probably dropped Marvel altogether so caring about this origin change is irrelevant...

 

Jim

[jimm94]

Changing the origin upsets the widely accepted suspension of disbelief/rationalization that the passage of time in the Marvel Universe is somehow different from the real world. More importantly, it potentially disrupts the validity (continuity) of the character's previous adventures.

 

It's all so jacked up at this point that it almost doesn't matter and it's far too late to try to fix.

[tilleycs]

The point that most people are trying to make is that the past in a fictional character's timeline is the past, there's no point in going back and changing it. Move on and tell new stories, reference it if you want, but move on.

 

Iron Man is a guy in a metal suit who is also a genius billionaire industrialist/weapons manufacturer... now go.

 

I agree. The thing about all the relaunching that annoys me personally is the paradigm shift (for lack of a better phrase) that's being forced upon us. We're supposed to forget everything that the company has worked to establish over the past 30+ years with a shrug and an "Oh, o.k...so now became by instead of what I've known about him/her for years and years."

 

People do get invested in these characters, and they do get to know them and their history. Character development evolvement (if that's a word) is great. Erasure and replacement of part of their history for no other reason than a temporary boost in sales is NOT. That's the singlemost reason (along with the prices) why I don't buy moderns (I trade for them from time to time, but don't buy anything). I don't want to sound curmudgeonly, but I hate that c-r-a-p. I wish I could like them, but stuff like this makes it hard and keeps me away.

 

If they can't tell new stories without forcing everyone to suddenly stop and start over with a new origin every year, a relaunch isn't going to help for very long. If they'd put the energy into developing the character(s) that they've put into trying to "update" everything, they wouldn't have to relaunch anything. They could work toward something new without such an abrupt ending and new beginning. It just doesn't flow well.

[Silver Surfer]

Bravo, well said.

[blowout]

Those that did care have probably given up any hope that Marvel would finally get it's act together and reconstitute any semblance of continuity. But then again, those readers have probably dropped Marvel altogether so caring about this origin change is irrelevant...

 

[Tango 'n Cash]

Once again I am not putting my point across. My statement was meant to say that the only people who sit around worrying "Wait a minute, Stark is 30 and he was in the Viet Nam war? That is crazy." backstory are likely Ennis and a couple of the more anal-realistic readers. The rest of the readers are just interested in the character and want to see new stories.

 

I disagree. I'm willing to bet a large segment of older readers are miffed when major changes are thrown at them from left field.

 

I do think you're misreading it this time and I was stating that only Ennis would think there was a serious problem with using Viet Nam and Stark at 30 for the backstory, and that there needs to be changes.

[awe4one]

Once again I am not putting my point across. My statement was meant to say that the only people who sit around worrying "Wait a minute, Stark is 30 and he was in the Viet Nam war? That is crazy." backstory are likely Ennis and a couple of the more anal-realistic readers. The rest of the readers are just interested in the character and want to see new stories.

 

I disagree. I'm willing to bet a large segment of older readers are miffed when major changes are thrown at them from left field.

 

I do think you're misreading it this time and I was stating that only Ennis would think there was a serious problem with using Viet Nam and Stark at 30 for the backstory, and that there needs to be changes.

 

I'm not sure I'm following you...so you're saying Ellis is the one that doesn't see the problem? Well if so...that's taken for granted or he wouldn't have changed it. That's not the point. The question is should he change it? Is it really necessary?

 

Jim

[Kevin Boyd]

I do think you're misreading it this time and I was stating that only Ennis would think there was a serious problem with using Viet Nam and Stark at 30 for the backstory, and that there needs to be changes.

 

Ennis loves Viet Nam stories, so I can't see him worrying about it.

 

Ellis thought Viet Nam dated the character, so yeah, he was the only one sweating about it. And since Quesada doesn't care he approved it.

[Tango 'n Cash]

I'm not sure I'm following you...

 

Did you stay up at night worrying that having Stark be in Viet Nam dated the character? Did I? Did others on here? Did the rest of the readers?

 

Highly doubtful.

 

Ennis was obviously bothered by this and it is yet another case of a writer-driven change that none of the readership wanted or asked for.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

With work and school, I had to wait until today to be able to pick this issue up. I can see why some more hardcore fans would be upset over the origin of Iron Man being retconned. That aside, I enjoyed this issue and look foward to the next. I thought that the story seems interesting enough, plus the artwork is pretty good.

[Darthdiesel]

Any bets on how Ultimate Iron Man's origin will be done? Great issue. didn't even notice the retcon - it worked so well in there