Best high-value short-term flip potential?

[BassGMan]

Another way to look at it is if somebody was to ask you what stock to invest in for 2-3 years. Almost all of us have been asked that question. I see the answer being the same with both. If you do your best job to pick wisely you may get lucky, or you may not. There are more conservative stocks and comics, and there are riskier ones as well. Either way, making any kind of aggresive investment like this accompanies many risks. I would just hope that anyone willing to put $10K into an investment like this can accept all possible scenarios. But overall, I personally would have no problem with the idea of an "outsider" investing 10K in comics as long as he has first gone to an experienced comic's investor for advice. Hey, that's what most stock market investors do as well. How many people really know the stock market? and how many people are invested in it? My guess is that overall very few people know how the stock market works. But with no advice to extensive advice, almost everybody does invest in it.

 

I'm not trying to say it's exactly the same as there are huge differences, but I think you get the picture of what I'm trying to say. ----Sid

[fantastic_four]

I think if it was my cash, I'd be concerned about moving items quickly when the time to sell came

 

I'd argue that NO comics meet this criteria unless you're lucky. No investments do, period. Unless it's a CD or some other managed fund, you quite frequently can't cash out at any given time and could have to wait months, or sometimes years, before you can get your return plus interest. This risk is part of the reason why CDs don't pay as well as direct investments.

 

I'll agree with most others, though...if you are going to try investing, the keys are the safest bet in terms of return on investment and probability of cashing out quickly and still receiving maximum value.

[Tango 'n Cash]

I personally would have no problem with the idea of an "outsider" investing 10K in comics as long as he has first gone to an experienced comic's investor for advice.

 

There is a big difference between a large-firm broker with vast educational and training requirements, regulations and penalties, and some guy who buys and sells comics on the weekend. Thinking they are the same thing is a ticket to Bankruptville.

[Norrin_Radd]

How many books is your friend looking to buy?

 

I would suggest diversifying by buying several key SA/BA books.

 

I tend to agree with skybolt, movie hype is a comic buyers best friend these days. But just as in the stock market, you have to know when to sell. The number one rule of any investing is don't overpay. If you buy at a bargain price, you can always sell and make back your money.

 

Investing in anything with the hope of short-term gain is ALWAYS dangerous.

[FlyingDonut]

I personally would have no problem with the idea of an "outsider" investing 10K in comics as long as he has first gone to an experienced comic's investor for advice.

 

There is a big difference between a large-firm broker with vast educational and training requirements, regulations and penalties, and some guy who buys and sells comics on the weekend. Thinking they are the same thing is a ticket to Bankruptville.

 

Hello. I've been doing this for 25 years, so I probably have the educational and training requirements that would be required. So has Blazingbob and some others. Don't assume that we don't know what we're doing.

 

That being said, the requirements for the potential investor to out perform CDs and money markets requires a simple 15-20% return (don't forget to factor in your tax rate). If you have 10K, know what you're doing and some time, you can easily make that kind of return in comics. You should be able to double your money without a whole lot of risk.

 

Here's my advice:

 

1) Absolutely do NOT purchase a single book. Buy a LOT of them.

2) Take your ten thousand dollars to a big show

3) Go on the last day

4) Walk around

5) Look for a dealer who is looking to get out

6) Buy lots and lots and lots of books

 

For example - I bought six long boxes of mid- to high-grade Silver to early Bronze books from a dealer for $6300, essentially $4 per book. I'm going to sell them for, essentially, $10 per book, after all fees and taxes. It takes a long time, and effort, but I'll take my $8K in profit and put it in the bank.

 

7) DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. Let me repeat that do not do this if you don't know what you're doing. Am I clear?

[DKB]

I think if it was my cash, I'd be concerned about moving items quickly when the time to sell came

 

I'd argue that NO comics meet this criteria unless you're lucky.

 

I'd counter that the more time you spend buying the less it takes to sell. That is to say the longer you spend finding "good buys", the easier it'll be to make "good sells".

 

Hot books sell fast. There are many that disappear as quickly as they appear on sites like Pedigree. That hard part is finding the book/title that will sell like that 2-3 years now. Those that sell fast at any price were obviously the "good buys". I think we all mostly know there will be those types of books in the future, one of them, three of them, who knows.

[Norrin_Radd]

I second Flying Donut's and DKB's statements.

[DKB]

 

For example - I bought six long boxes of mid- to high-grade Silver to early Bronze books from a dealer for $6300, essentially $4 per book. I'm going to sell them for, essentially, $10 per book, after all fees and taxes. It takes a long time, and effort, but I'll take my $8K in profit and put it in the bank.

 

 

I'd describe what you do as, well, being a dealer. Sounds like its a part time job.

 

I worship your non-laziness.

 

While I won't be so bold to say I could run around doubling my money, I'm fairly certain I could do what it is you describe...if I wanted to put forth the effort. And there's even some enjoyment I'd get out of going through 6 long boxes, grading, selling and so forth, just being hip deep in the hobby. And 8k is nothing for anyone to sneeze at really.

 

But its a lot of work. There have been times I've just not pulled the trigger on an eBay BIN that I KNEW I could flip immediately for $50 profit because I just didn't want the hassle. The hassle of dealing with eBay, listing, shipping, etc.

 

And short-term, for a non dealer (someone who isn't accustomed to buying and selling long boxes at a time), flipping that many books is just too much. If this is the best, sure-fire method, and I don't doubt it is, then I'd certainly dissuade my friend from getting involved. He's looking to make money, to flip 5 or 6 books, not so much find a second job flipping 5 or 6 long boxes, if you know what I mean.

[skybolt]

Comic book collectors (including myself) are really passionate about their hobby. For instance, last year I bought 1 copy of A.S.M. #1 CGC 8.0, and 2 copies of X-Men #1 (CGC 8.0 & 8.5). I've obviously spent a lot of money on these books so I'm hoping for a nice return if decide to sell them years from now. However, let's say that 10 years from, the books have not gone up in value, and I sell them at a zero % profit. Since I'm a true comic book fan, this wouldn't bother me too much, since I would have owned these great books for many many years. However, if your friend is not interested in the hobby, then I'm sure he'll be really dejected if he does not get a nice return on his investment. It's like if I invest $20,000 in the stock market, and lose some money, It would really get under my skin (since I'm not really interested in stocks). At least I get some enjoyment from my comic book collection.

[Ze-man]

I think Donut's advice is sound...

Not many people have the time, or skill to succesfully flip a large amount of books.

But if done correctly, there is the potential to flip the books, and turn a profit.

 

Just like the Stock Market.. if there was such a thing as an easy, get rich quick scheme in Comics.. or a "one size fits all" easy answer to your buy/ flip question.... we would all be rich.

 

And it sounds like you just answered your own question DKB.. if a person happens to dig around, stumbles upon a great comic opportunity, for a dirt cheap price...then that is by far the best way to buy/flip for a profit.$$$

 

 

In the end.. buy KEY books for the best price you can, and hope that in a few years you can at least get back what you paid for them, but in todays Market.. buying KEYS for a fair price is not an easy task.

 

Ze-

[Tango 'n Cash]

Hello. I've been doing this for 25 years, so I probably have the educational and training requirements that would be required. So has Blazingbob and some others. Don't assume that we don't know what we're doing.

 

No one is saying you do not. But you do realize that if a broker takes me to the cleaners or disregards any of the many regulations then he will be hearing from my lawyer and his governing body.

 

If one of you "comic book investors" steers me wrong what happens then? You all laugh.

[Ron_Nasty]

All four Beatles autographs. As long as they're not fake!

[Silver Surfer]

Maybe a Signature Series SA key that was signed by Stan Lee and is in decent condition? I think as time goes on these will become more and more valueable.

[Red Hook]

You mean after he kicks? Cause' it'll be tough to tell.....he'll still be hyping the latest Marvel movie!

[Silver Surfer]

Didn't want to say it but you know what I mean.

[sfilosa]

Buy Low, Sell High.

 

Basically, buy a very nice high grade key book, when its the soft time of year. No guarantee, but if you can't sell for a nice profit when the usually hot time of year kicks in, then nothings going up.

[Red Hook]

Didn't want to say it but you know what I mean.

 

You could be waiting a long time for that train to leave the station.....

[COI]

I'm not going to name out a bunch of books I see having upside potential. But I echo the sentiments of those who say to definetly NOT buy just one book. It would be less risky to buy a number of $200-$1000 books, as they are much easier to convert to cash should the need arise. There have been a lot of big $$$ books on the market which have sat for months and months with no takers, and over-exposing a book (ie: keeping it out there for long periods of time with a very high price) will kill any interest in it there may have been.

 

Also, when dealing with 10K + books, you have to be "in the loop" in terms of knowing who most of the "players" in the market are, and what they need/are looking for. And the sad fact is, if a 10K+ book is on the market at all, there's a good chance that it was already offered to, and turned down by most of the "players".

[jbud73]

Hmm another flipping thread ..... they do seem to be more frequent lately. Just so I have it clear.

 

- John D (DKB's buddy) knows not to much about comics.

 

- He's got 10K to invest and wants to know what comics will beat out other investments over a 2-3 year period.

 

- He needs his purchase to be fairly small in terms of # of books and liquid as he has not the time, nor inclination to undertake FD's scenerio.

 

My first impression is, if there were an EASY way to make 15-20% on comics based on 10K over 2-3 years alot of us would be a whole lot richer. So where does that leave your buddy who doesnt possess even a snippet of the board knowledge. It leaves him in one place HIGHER RISK to REWAD ratio.

 

Lets take Sids point, he has 500K portfolio then hey shoot the 10K on pretty much what you like, with some small advise from DKB, or is it DBK mm. maybe he should test the OS market reports First problem, trying to find a 10K book in NM for OS guide

 

If this is a larger % of income for him - then go with what you know. I agree with Rob KNOWLEDGE IS POWER - even board members myself included have bad deals from time to time. I might think man if i have an extra disposable 10K around no problem - but reality is even I would assume risk. Lets look at what he will most likely buy and why that paints him into a corner.

 

- Second generation CGC slabs (sfilosa terminology) IE buying after slabbing - as anyone will tell you a HUGE % of profit potential is eaten up for the buyer after the fact. THE REAL MONEY MADE BY A LARGE % OF BOARD MEMBERS IS BUYING RAW AND SELLING SLABBED.

 

- He does not possess the experise to do this, DKB are you gonna go around and consult with him over raw purchases? Are you going to ask for a percentage to do this? In terms of selling, how is he going to consign the books 2-3 years down the road? This eats up profit - Heritage and ComicLink are not free last time I checked.

 

- So now we begin to understand the deck that is stacked against John D. He is most likely going to buy second generation slabbed HG from established sources and try to turn a 20 % NET profit after 2-3 years - still with me. I'm NOT saying in cant be done, but with the direct knowledge and expertise he possesses or lach thereof, I wouldnt bet the kids college fund on it.

 

A few related points:

 

The stock market and comics share traits in common - HOWEVER THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE AND HAVE DIFFER RULES, REGUALTION, ENVIRONMENTS AND ARE VASTLY DIFFERENT IN SIZE This does not make comparisons invalid, but I think the metaphor is thrown around a wee bit too much around here.

 

A Final comment, I don't have figures to substantiate, but I would wager that a large percentage of Investors who got in under the same scenerio as John D (limited knowledge, larger investment, short term, high % expectations) where not successfull, ESPECIALLY THEIR FIRST TIME AROUND.

[BassGMan]

 

Hello. I've been doing this for 25 years, so I probably have the educational and training requirements that would be required. So has Blazingbob and some others. Don't assume that we don't know what we're doing.

 

That being said, the requirements for the potential investor to out perform CDs and money markets requires a simple 15-20% return (don't forget to factor in your tax rate). If you have 10K, know what you're doing and some time, you can easily make that kind of return in comics. You should be able to double your money without a whole lot of risk.

 

Here's my advice:

 

1) Absolutely do NOT purchase a single book. Buy a LOT of them.

2) Take your ten thousand dollars to a big show

3) Go on the last day

4) Walk around

5) Look for a dealer who is looking to get out

6) Buy lots and lots and lots of books

 

For example - I bought six long boxes of mid- to high-grade Silver to early Bronze books from a dealer for $6300, essentially $4 per book. I'm going to sell them for, essentially, $10 per book, after all fees and taxes. It takes a long time, and effort, but I'll take my $8K in profit and put it in the bank.

 

7) DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. Let me repeat that do not do this if you don't know what you're doing. Am I clear?

 

Hi Donut. Sounds like I must be one of those mini-donuts or something because I am following in your footsteps, pretty much exactly. You are dealing in larger volume and bigger purchases, but I'm pretty much doing the same exact thing on a smaller scale and following the same basic guidelines. Keep it up. It's cool because it is not only fun, but profitable. ----Sid