What would you do in this PLOD situation?

[SpideySense-migration]

I bought 15 comics from a reputable dealer at a show (1,500+ transactions on ebay with 100% feedback) and had about half of them CGC'd. Out of the 7 comics I submitted 2 are still in the process of being CGC'd, 2 came back restored, and 3 came back graded close to what I anticipated. Is it reasonable to ask for a refund on the 2 restored comics + the CGC fees? I paid $408.33 (with CGC fees) on these 2 restored comics. I paid a total of $1,700 for the 15 comics I bought from this dealer that day.

 

 

Defenders #2 CGC'd 9.2 PLOD

 

Tales Of Suspense #52 CGC'd 8.5 PLOD

[Murph]

Ask for a refund of the purchase price at least. He should be willing to refund books that were sold as unrestored but are actually restored.

What else did you submit?

 

Brian

[ComicSupply]

I am not so sure on the Defenders #2, but I think I would try to recoup on the TOS #52. Thats a book that is worth complaining about. The Defenders #2 I don't know. I mean, I would probably mention both.

 

On another note, what was the restoration?

[arexcrooke]

I would ask for a refund on the books. I dont know about the grading fee. It was not the dealers decision to send them off to CGC, it was yours. Not being an donkey's rear end, just my opinnion. I think that the dealer is on the hook for just the refund of the books, and you might have to chalk up to experience. I know it sucks, but hopefully, the dealer will do the right thing and refund your money.

[shadroch]

Did you explictly ask about restoration? Did he assure you they were unrestored? Was it implied or implict?

Either way,I doubt he'll give you the grading fees.

If he doesn't refund your money,please be sure to let us know who the dealer is. In fact,the threat of "outing" him on this and the other boards might cause him to give a refund.

Good luck!

[Jgel]

I would ask for a refund on the books. I dont know about the grading fee. It was not the dealers decision to send them off to CGC, it was yours. Not being an donkey's rear end, just my opinnion. I think that the dealer is on the hook for just the refund of the books, and you might have to chalk up to experience. I know it sucks, but hopefully, the dealer will do the right thing and refund your money.

 

I agree here. He should refund the books but not the grading fees. He did not know that they were PLODS (i hope). You paid for someone to check that for you. You pay that fee, he should refund BOTH books. Just my $0.02

[Darthdiesel]

I'm guessing with the DEfenders 2 it's some amount of CT to maintain that perfect black cover... shoe polish?

[SpideySense-migration]

what was the restoration?

 

Slight color touch on cover of both books.

[SpideySense-migration]

Did you explictly ask about restoration?

 

No I did not. NONE of the books were marked as being restored. I assumed at the price I was paying and the fact that the books weren't marked restored that there were NOT in fact restored. Before you say it, I know what assuming does.

[blowout]

Did you explictly ask about restoration?

 

No I did not. NONE of the books were marked as being restored. I assumed at the price I was paying and the fact that the books weren't marked restored that there were NOT in fact restored. Before you say it, I know what assuming does.

 

In that case you will probably have to take the loss. When paying significant $$$ for SA and BA books always ask about restoration.

[blowout]

Did you explictly ask about restoration?

 

No I did not. NONE of the books were marked as being restored. I assumed at the price I was paying and the fact that the books weren't marked restored that there were NOT in fact restored. Before you say it, I know what assuming does.

 

In that case you will probably have to take the loss. When paying significant $$$ for raw SA and BA books always ask about restoration.

[shadroch]

That sucks. Always ask,and get an idea what the dealer will do if the book comes back with a purple label.I remember when you first posted about your purchases a few months ago. I asked you then who the dealer was,now I'm even more curious.I bought a book at the show last spring that the dealer assurred me would come back universal and at least a 8.0,most likely an 8.5. It came back a 7.5 instead,and he wasn't there this weekend.

[FFB]

I bought 15 comics from a reputable dealer at a show (1,500+ transactions on ebay with 100% feedback) and had about half of them CGC'd. Out of the 7 comics I submitted 2 are still in the process of being CGC'd, 2 came back restored, and 3 came back graded close to what I anticipated. Is it reasonable to ask for a refund on the 2 restored comics + the CGC fees? I paid $408.33 (with CGC fees) on these 2 restored comics. I paid a total of $1,700 for the 15 comics I bought from this dealer that day.

 

 

Defenders #2 CGC'd 9.2 PLOD

 

Tales Of Suspense #52 CGC'd 8.5 PLOD

 

Who was the seller? Just curious.

[SpideySense-migration]

That sucks. Always ask,and get an idea what the dealer will do if the book comes back with a purple label.I remember when you first posted about your purchases a few months ago. I asked you then who the dealer was,now I'm even more curious.I bought a book at the show last spring that the dealer assurred me would come back universal and at least a 8.0,most likely an 8.5. It came back a 7.5 instead,and he wasn't there this weekend.

 

I didn't see either of the 2 guys I bought my comics off of last time, but I only looked around for about a half hour or so. I was mainly there to get some stuff CGC'd and go back home because I have been working nights and it was hard staying up. The dealer I bought the TOS #52 and Defenders #2 actually e-mailed me through my ebay account a few days after I originally posted another thread about my experiences at the September Big Apple. I am not going to out the dealer until he has time to respond to my request. Like I said, the guy has 1,500+ 100% positive feedback on ebay so I don't think he is dishonest.

[SpideySense-migration]

In that case you will probably have to take the loss. When paying significant $$$ for raw SA and BA books always ask about restoration.

 

I can appreciate your position, but I feel that if a product was restored it should have been marked as restored. It is just like buying something from a store and you get home and find out what was in the box isn't what was advertised and you return it. I know if the situation was reversed and I was the seller instead of the buyer I would make things right, but that is just me. I just want what I paid for, nothing more or less. On the positive side a Hulk #122 came back 9.2, Avengers #9 came back 9.0 and a JIM #114 also came back 9.2 from this same dealer so it wasn't a total bust. Right now I am 3 Blue label and 2 Purple label out of 5 and waiting on 2 other comics to come back from CGC that I bought from this same dealer.

[BassGMan]

Just curious, but do you guys think the buyer assumes any responsibility with the purchase of a lightly restored book? The reason I ask is that I imagine that with many books the dealer has no idea that the book has been restored, especially if the buyer cannot even tell himself when considering the purchase. As we all know, the big (and even small) dealers out there are buying and selling (flipping) all the time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that my guess is that in most situations when a lightly restored book is sold, the seller is unaware of the restoration. Now I KNOW there are some slimy dealers out there who do this on purpose, but I'm talking the typical dealer here.

 

I always thought that when a buyer makes a purchase IN PERSON, that he is buying the book as is. As long as the buyer is able to take the book out, make a full examination, and then fork over an agreed upon price, then it is sold "as is". If the buyer is putting out a large wad of cash for the book(s) then he should only make the purchase if he has the ability to recognize any restoration and defects.

 

However, if the seller states clearly to the buyer that there is absolutely NO restoration of any kind, and THEN the book comes back PLOD, that is another story. But when no mention is made, I see it as sold "as is".

 

BUT, if I was to sell a book that I did not know was restored, then absolutely YES I would return the amount paid in full. I just bring this up because I can understand the point of view of a dealer that would not be willing to refund in this kind of situation. And furthermore, as a buyer, I would NEVER even think about asking for my money back for a restored book unless the seller specifically told me the book was NOT restored before making the purchase. Without that, after the book is paid for and in my hands, it is my responsibilty good or bad. I should have examined the book better. If I did not have the time or skill to detect the restoration, then TOO BAD FOR ME. -----Sid

[BassGMan]

I just wanted to make one more point on this issue. And I speak as both an experienced buyer and seller, so I like to always look at things from both angles and without being biased.

 

In a case like this, how does the seller even know that the book in question is the one that he sold? If a dealer sold an Action #1, or an ASM #1, sure he'll remember most of the details of that book. If I sold a Defenders #2 three months ago? Geez, how do I even know it is the same book that I sold? Maybe the buyer is trying to pawn off a defected book he bought from someone else on to me? Maybe he thinks I would remember selling A Defenders #2, so I'd be an easy target. There are some real slimy buyers out there as well. I've had guys come back wanting a refund for a book they'd bought two hours earlier from me at a con. Usually it was just because they found the book for cheaper somewhere else and wanted to return mine. I always oblige, because I often give the benefit of the doubt, but I don't have every copy of ASM or X-Men in my long boxes memorized. He could be making a switcheroo of some kind.

 

Anyway, just a few more points to think about. There are always two sides to every story, and don't assume that just because a seller won't cooperate (just in case that is the story here) that it is because he is trying to pull a fast one over on ya'. -----Sid

[shadroch]

A crowded,badly lit convention is not exactly the best place to be checking for restoration. Few people bring black-lights to shows.I simply ask the dealer 1) Is it restored, and 2) What are you prepared to do if it comes back from CGC as restored.I've been told by some dealers that they'd refund,others have launched into anti-CGC diatrabes.

You take your chances,but there are a few things you can do to hedge your investments. Of course,as we well know,there are always a few people who would lie to your face and then blame you.

If you don't ask,you can't really do more than hope the dealer will refund your money.

[blowout]

Just curious, but do you guys think the buyer assumes any responsibility with the purchase of a lightly restored book? The reason I ask is that I imagine that with many books the dealer has no idea that the book has been restored, especially if the buyer cannot even tell himself when considering the purchase. As we all know, the big (and even small) dealers out there are buying and selling (flipping) all the time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that my guess is that in most situations when a lightly restored book is sold, the seller is unaware of the restoration. Now I KNOW there are some slimy dealers out there who do this on purpose, but I'm talking the typical dealer here.

 

I always thought that when a buyer makes a purchase IN PERSON, that he is buying the book as is. As long as the buyer is able to take the book out, make a full examination, and then fork over an agreed upon price, then it is sold "as is". If the buyer is putting out a large wad of cash for the book(s) then he should only make the purchase if he has the ability to recognize any restoration and defects.

 

However, if the seller states clearly to the buyer that there is absolutely NO restoration of any kind, and THEN the book comes back PLOD, that is another story. But when no mention is made, I see it as sold "as is".

\

 

For sure the buyer has to take responsibility. Only in a case were the book turns out not to be 'as advertised' does the buyer have a legit complaint i.e. seller says book is unrestored and it turns out to be restored.

That is why, in this case, SpideySense has no real recourse, as the seller did not state the book was unrestored. If he had enquired prior to purchase, then he may have covered himself.

[BassGMan]

A crowded,badly lit convention is not exactly the best place to be checking for restoration. Few people bring black-lights to shows.I simply ask the dealer 1) Is it restored, and 2) What are you prepared to do if it comes back from CGC as restored.I've been told by some dealers that they'd refund,others have launched into anti-CGC diatrabes.

You take your chances,but there are a few things you can do to hedge your investments. Of course,as we well know,there are always a few people who would lie to your face and then blame you.

If you don't ask,you can't really do more than hope the dealer will refund your money.

 

I agree with you Shad. If you ask your two questions then I believe you should be covered, assuming the dealer will back up his words. But I imagine in most cases there is no mention of restoration, thus I believe there is no obligation for a refund. However, nice-guy and trusting dealers that worry more about reputation than a few bad deals are still most likely gonna do whatever necessary to make the customer happy, although I personally don't think they are obliged to if no refund policies were stated in advance of the sale.