When buying in person, how well do you examine the book before purchasing it?

[BassGMan]

After talking about a similar subject in another thread, it got me thinking. When at a comic convention or even an LCS, how well do you examine your book(s) before making the purchase. I imagine that the more expensive, the better look you give it. Do you take it out of the bag/mylar to inspect the back and interior? Do you check it for restoration? Do you count pages or look for clipped coupons, etc?

 

And most important, who is then responsible for the condition, including possible restoration, after you have had full opportunity to examine your books BEFORE agreeing on a price and handing over the cash?

 

If you just give the book a 5-second glance for general condition as compared to a 5-minute full examination, does that make the seller any more or less responsible for the condition/restoration status? Or, if the dealer marks it with a given grade, how responsible is he for the grade in accordance to the length of time you took upon yourself to examine it and maybe re-grade it?

 

For me personally? I take some chances. If the book is under $100, I MIGHT take the book out for a quick glance of the back cover, but maybe not. Either way, I usually give it a one-minute once over and buy it if interested. $50 and less I usually don't even take it out of the bag. For a $300 and up book I'll study both sides of the cover and interior for maybe three minutes. Knowing the opportunity to examine the book fully before my purchase (whether I do or not) I take 100% accountability for the book after the deal is done. In person I also never ask or care about a return policy because I take it upon myself, and my experience to know what I am buying before paying (online is different, of course).

 

Just curious how you guys handle your in-person purchases and how much responsibility you place in yourself for your own examination of the quality of the book as compared to the dealer's grade and responsibility. Thanks----Sid

[ninanina]

How much I check a comic out depends on who I'm buying it from. If it's from someone I trust and have dealt with before, I'll give it a solid 20 seconds. Check corners, stress marks along spine and cover gloss. I would never take more than a minute to check out a comic. But, I'm not necessarily looking for raw 9.4's(or better) either.

[october]

I have gotten into the habit of taking every comic I buy out of the bag and checking out the back cover and centerfold. I don't care if it is $5.00 or $50.00. At the most recent Chicago Comicfest I took every one out of the bag but the X-Men 86 I bought.....wouldn't you know it, I got home and saw a light stain on the back cover that dropped the grade Last time I take conditon for granted. The extra 10 seconds has paid off more than once, believe me.

[read_em-migration]

Always count the pages.

[shadroch]

Obviously the amount of money and the idenity of the seller are huge factors.I got badly burnt last year by a dealer I had done much business with. A deal that still hasn't been fully set right,in my opinion.

If we are talking about a book for serious dollars($100 and up),I'll take as much time as I need to be satisfied.

Front and back covers,inside and out,centerfold,coupons and stamps,tears inside and smell.About the only thing I don't really check is trimming,because I can't figure out how to do it easily.

I mostly only buy this type of books from people I've had long time relationships with,but I still discuss what happens if I submit a book and it comes back restored.

I've only bought one multi-thousand dollar book at a show,because I don't feel they have the proper atmosphere to do that sort of deal.

[arexcrooke]

If it is a $1-2-3 dollar book, I barely even check it out for very long. As the books get more expensive, I take more time. For example, I was looking at a nice Defenders 10 at a recent show. The guy wanted like $45 for it. I take it out, and really give it the once over. Come to find out that there were some pressure marks from a pencil on it, and some other defects that I could not have noticed without taking the book out of the bag. So, to say it simply, the more the book costs, the more I look at it.

[seank]

Add me to the "more expensive the longer it gets looked at" camp. Typically, I ask the dealer if I can take it out of the bag (ALWAYS ASK!! Most dealers will say yes. I've even requested that they do it for really high dollar books whether or not I have permission.). Once the book is out, check covers, centerfold, count pages, look for interior defects, yadda, yadda, yadda.

[finecomics]

Esp if it is Marvel .25 center. Don't even get me started on value stamps. I bought a collection once that came with the actual value stamp album and was complete. For some reason I didn't put it together that the stamps came from his books, I was just so happy to actually get the album. Luckily the 181 was spared, but others were not so lucky.

 

Then going back through my collection when I actually learned that most books have 32 pages. I found about 5 examples of where people would cut out the pictures on the letters page on silver age stuff. Even one where (spidey 43) where the last page was neatly cut out with a razor.

 

And I still haven't seen what the darn pin-up looks like on spidey 20. Did everyone cut that out?

 

Now I count pages and look on the inside (unless it is modern). And I would say at least 15% have deal breaker defects.

[BassGMan]

Add me to the "more expensive the longer it gets looked at" camp. Typically, I ask the dealer if I can take it out of the bag (ALWAYS ASK!! Most dealers will say yes. I've even requested that they do it for really high dollar books whether or not I have permission.). Once the book is out, check covers, centerfold, count pages, look for interior defects, yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

In addition to the above, if after you have had ample time to inspect the book, and THEN it comes back from CGC in a PLOD, then who is responsible, YOU after having all the time you needed to inspect the book before purchasing, or the dealer that may or may not have known about it and who also may not have examined it as well as you? AND, is the answer to that the same or different for the inexperienced or experinced buyer?

[fantastic_four]

Here's what I do:

• Under $10 = grade front cover only
• Between $10 and $100 = grade front and back cover
• Over $100 = grade front and back, count pages, briefly glance at each page to make sure pieces aren't missing. If it's a 9.2 or better candidate, I also look for page tears.
• Over $300 = all of the above, plus look it over for restoration

[Sharkey]

I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take the book out of the bag and inspect it. You'd be surprised at how many times I've found interior flaws in books at major dealer's stands. Bottom line is, sometimes they get a truckload of books in. Maybe the staffer doing the run-through gets a little lazy and misses a cut coupon, or an interior page tear, or a pen scribble. Or maybe they bought it from a reputable source who hadn't looked the book over themselves. It happens, and I don't hold it against them.

 

To buy any book, and not take it out of the bag to inspect it first, is just asking for it. Graders and shop owners can make mistakes, so be responsible for your purchases and give the books a good look-through.

[FFB]

Here's what I do:

• Under $10 = grade front cover only
• Between $10 and $100 = grade front and back cover
• Over $100 = grade front and back, count pages, briefly glance at each page to make sure pieces aren't missing. If it's a 9.2 or better candidate, I also look for page tears.
• Over $300 = all of the above, plus look it over for restoration

 

That's close to what I do, except I'll check any book that's worth over $20 for restoration (amateur color touch, mainly).

[jbud73]

When I have the opportunity I always take the book out and give it the once over. There are exceptions. If Im buying filler stuff, $5 or less then its a quick look at the cover. But anything over that I have a good look. Why? Well I have a stack of comics in a short box with defects that are only visible out of the bag that I wasnt aware of when purchasing - 99% of every book I buy is going into my collection so why wouldnt I take the time to look at the books. That short box is a reminder to me about the worth of a few minutes of my time.

 

Personally thats what its all about, how do you think that most of the people learned how to grade around here, it wasnt by viewing CGC books I can tell you that for certain. I feel that every book I look at increases the data base and grading skills. The opportunity to purchase books in person has also decreased alot recently with the increase in collectors buying through the internet.

 

Finally, its just fun to do - Scott, Garth, Jeff and I had the opportunity to get together and visit a dealer in the Bay Area over the weekend, we must have spent 2-3 hours going over hundreds of books from GA to Moderns - examing them, comparing opinions and what I can only describe as comic book appreciation in its purest form. Sadly this does not happen as much as it used to, at least for me and the end result was that I got some really nice books without any hidden surprises. Thats what being a collector is all about

[BassGMan]

I hear ya' Jbud. I think I am gonna have to start examining alot more books at cons than I used to. It was always inconvenient for me before, dealing with others all around scrounging through the boxes, carrying some kind of a pack, not much space, possibility of damage (somebody bumps in to you) etc., but I think I'm gonna have to take the time and just do it. Geez, who knows what is lurking in some of the comics I already own that I have to this day not even looked through.

 

Better be safe that sorry as they always say.

 

Still nobody piped up yet on this thread about who is essentially responsible for any resto once that the buyer has had the opportunity for a thorough look through the book .

[THE_BEYONDER]

Still nobody piped up yet on this thread about who is essentially responsible for any resto once that the buyer has had the opportunity for a thorough look through the book

 

Regardless how closely a buyer looks a book over....it is the seller who's responsible for RESTO.

[BassGMan]

Still nobody piped up yet on this thread about who is essentially responsible for any resto once that the buyer has had the opportunity for a thorough look through the book

 

Regardless how closely a buyer looks a book over....it is the seller who's responsible for RESTO.

 

I respect that opinion, but y'see, that's also where I differ. If it was CGC selling books directly that they said were unrestored, then I would hold them accountable, as they are experts. No matter how much experience a dealer has, unless he is a restoration detection expert, I cannot know for sure than ANY book that I am buying is going to be untouched. I also do not know if a dealer is even aware many times that they sell lightly restored books. I have always believed in personal responsibility and I like to look at the coin on both sides. I can see that those who are mainly just buyers would most likely want to blame the dealer for everything. That's easy. But I don't believe the dealer is the know-all-be-all.

 

We have CGC to help us with grading and restoration detection. If you don't wanna take the chance with a raw book, then don't buy one. If you are not confident with your own resto detection skills, then keep that in mind, you may buy a restored book. Scammers aside, I just do not believe in holding a dealer responsible for restoration as long as a buyer has had ample opportunity to inspect the book.

 

I personally have never sold a book and had the buyer come back claiming I sold him a restored book, so I'm not trying to defend any of my actions. But I have purchased CT books from dealers in the past, and after I received the PLOD, I felt pretty stupid for not catching it. I take responsibility for my purchases, I believe others should as well, ESPECIALLY if they consider themselves experienced in the field. New comics are different. If I buy a brand new copy of a comic from an LCS, bring it home, open it up and see a page ripped in half, then of course I would return it. But we are talking about collectibles here, and old books. Not the same as new. Just my two cents. ----Sid

[Mr. Zipper]

Scammers aside, I just do not believe in holding a dealer responsible for restoration as long as a buyer has had ample opportunity to inspect the book.

 

I personally have never sold a book and had the buyer come back claiming I sold him a restored book, so I'm not trying to defend any of my actions. But I have purchased CT books from dealers in the past, and after I received the PLOD, I felt pretty stupid for not catching it. I take responsibility for my purchases, I believe others should as well, ESPECIALLY if they consider themselves experienced in the field. New comics are different. If I buy a brand new copy of a comic from an LCS, bring it home, open it up and see a page ripped in half, then of course I would return it. But we are talking about collectibles here, and old books. Not the same as new. Just my two cents. ----Sid

 

I don't agree with this at all.

 

First, given the wide price variances between restored and non-restored books, it should be very obvious if a dealer is selling a book as restored or not. Therefore, if a book is sold at nonrestored market value, a reasonable buyer would presume that the book is being sold as "non-restored." Further, the "dealer" by default assumes some level of "expertise" and a reasonable buyer should be able to infer that a book being sold at un-restored prices is indeed "un-restored" and the dealer has taken some due diligence in inspecting HIS merchandise before pricing and selling it. Yes, the buyer should assume some responsibility in inspecting the book, but it's unrealistic to expect a buyer to be able to thoroughly inspect a book for restoration at a crowded convention with bad lighting. So, the seller must assume most of the burden of responsibility that the goods he is selling are as he claims, e.g., the book is unrestored because the pricing is at an unrestored market value.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, once the buyer takes possession of the book, the responsibility falls on him to notify the dealer in a reasonable time frame if restoration is found.

 

Regarding your comments regarding the difference between new and old comics...

 

You can't have it both ways. Once you create some interpretive line where restoration is the dealers responsibility versus it's the buyers responsibility, there is NO line because everyone will have a different interpretation. That is, you say the buyer can assume that "new" books are restoration free, but what about 3 year old books? 7 year old books? Is it safe to presume a Copper age book is resto free?

 

The bottom line is that the dealer assumes the mantle of "expert" in a comic book transaction and if the book is priced as unrestored, the reasonable buyer should be able to rely on said dealer's expertise and presume the book is unrestored. If the book is found to be restored within a reasonable time frame, the seller has an obligation to accept a return.

 

The analogy to grading does not apply because grading is a subjective exercise where even "experts" can disagree. Restoration, on the other hand, is an objective finding.

[BassGMan]

Zip, I get what you are saying, but I am mostly talking about dealers that are UNaware of selling their books with color touch. Obviously if unaware (as I suspect many sellers are with light CT books) the books would be sold at unrestored prices. So, the moral of the story is.... the buyer needs to be aware that ANY book being sold can possibly have some kind of light resto. And that being the case, if one is to buy a book, especially an older valuable book, the buyer needs to be prepared for this possibility, and hopefully have the skill to recognize it. Or at least have somebody else around that can verify this. So that is why I state that a buyer should take responsibility. It is, in a sense, negligent of the buyer to put down money on a valuable comic without the assurance of knowing that the book is unrestored. If you cannot verify this yourself, sure, ask about a return policy, but take a "test-drive" first. If you are a quick-buy-and-run type of guy, then too bad. Do a thorough examination, then be an informed buyer.

 

Geez, people need to realize that a dealer may have just purchased a lot of 3,000 books, gave them a quick glance for grade, slapped on a price sticker and set them out for the crowd. As a buyer, you are dealing with MUCH smaller quantities (unless you are ALSO a seller buying in quantity) so take it upon yourself to do the full inspection as in many cases the dealer has not, at least for books below some price point. -----Sid

[SpideySense-migration]

The bottom line is that the dealer assumes the mantle of "expert" in a comic book transaction and if the book is priced as unrestored, the reasonable buyer should be able to rely on said dealer's expertise and presume the book is unrestored. If the book is found to be restored within a reasonable time frame, the seller has an obligation to accept a return.

 

Sounds logical to me.

[fantastic_four]

Further, the "dealer" by default assumes some level of "expertise" and a reasonable buyer should be able to infer that a book being sold at un-restored prices is indeed "un-restored" and the dealer has taken some due diligence in inspecting HIS merchandise before pricing and selling it.

 

How do you take due diligence to learn restoration? There's NOTHING published to teach it to you, and this dearth of information is the entire reason certification is so viable to begin with.

 

Since almost all but the most hardcore of dealers aren't great at detecting resto, I don't see how all sellers can practically go through any reasonable diligence to check a book over for restoration. I've been VERY diligently trying to learn it for years, and I'm still not great at it. There are a few national dealers who have done quite a bit of minor restoration themselves who still aren't great at detecting work done by others and get burned by missing resto on the books they buy enough to just throw up their hands and outsource that task to CGC even though they're in a better position to detect resto than the vast majority of dealers who have never tried their hand at performing resto themselves (my LORD what a run-on that was ).

 

Unslabbed is just a risk no matter how you look at it...you can count the number of sellers on the planet who can detect a wide range of restoration on one hand, or maybe two at the most.