Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[VintageComics]

In my need to know I have a hard time saying no.

 

[drbanner]

And because fighting eternal cynics is not only useless, it makes you look like you have an agenda. Repeatedly fighting someone with a bias ends up making you look biased yourself.

Exactly right. (thumbs u

 

Roy - if nothing else, you are prolific.

[fantastic_four]

In my need to know I have a hard time saying no.

 

 

You know exactly who you have no reason to engage--so stop engaging them already.

[THE_BEYONDER]

In my need to know I have a hard time saying no.

 

 

You know exactly who you have no reason to engage--so stop engaging them already.

 

Who might that be?

[joeypost]

Would it be possible that the top book or two would have the room to be skewed ever so slightly compared to the bottom books? If shifting were to occur it would be my guess that the top books would be the more likely candidates. And if so, it would affect the cut on a few books per batch.

 

What makes you think multiple books are cut at once? In the videos linked earlier, it looked like each book went through separately. They'd have to in order to be stapled individually.

 

In some of the videos I have watched the books are assembled, stacked in maybe groups of 50 (stacked) and then trimmed on 3 sides.

 

Were those videos in the thread or did you see that somewhere else?

 

Somewhere else. I have even visited a bindery and watched the process on magazines not comics.

[fantastic_four]

Would it be possible that the top book or two would have the room to be skewed ever so slightly compared to the bottom books? If shifting were to occur it would be my guess that the top books would be the more likely candidates. And if so, it would affect the cut on a few books per batch.

 

What makes you think multiple books are cut at once? In the videos linked earlier, it looked like each book went through separately. They'd have to in order to be stapled individually.

 

In some of the videos I have watched the books are assembled, stacked in maybe groups of 50 (stacked) and then trimmed on 3 sides.

 

Were those videos in the thread or did you see that somewhere else?

 

Somewhere else. I have even visited a bindery and watched the process on magazines not comics.

 

There's a question for the 1960s Sparta guy Dice knows--were the books cut on three sides individually, or were they cut in stacks? If they were cut in stacks, how many per stack?

[VintageComics]

Would it be possible that the top book or two would have the room to be skewed ever so slightly compared to the bottom books? If shifting were to occur it would be my guess that the top books would be the more likely candidates. And if so, it would affect the cut on a few books per batch.

 

What makes you think multiple books are cut at once? In the videos linked earlier, it looked like each book went through separately. They'd have to in order to be stapled individually.

 

In some of the videos I have watched the books are assembled, stacked in maybe groups of 50 (stacked) and then trimmed on 3 sides.

 

Were those videos in the thread or did you see that somewhere else?

 

Somewhere else. I have even visited a bindery and watched the process on magazines not comics.

 

There's a question for the 1960s Sparta guy Dice knows--were the books cut on three sides individually, or were they cut in stacks? If they were cut in stacks, how many per stack?

 

I agree, great question for Dice.

 

If I had to guess, I'd guess more than one at a time.

 

It's more economical that way and would also explain why there might be variations with books, even within a certain month/issue.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

And because fighting eternal cynics is not only useless, it makes you look like you have an agenda. Repeatedly fighting someone with a bias ends up making you look biased yourself.

Exactly right. (thumbs u

 

Roy - if nothing else, you are prolific.

 

I'm optimistic to the point where my girlfriend repeatedly brands me a pollyana, but Roy's willingness to carry a torch to change the minds of the most pessimistic people around here puts me to shame. I believe that anyone can achieve or understand anything they're willing to put their minds and wills towards, but when someone clearly is closed off to an idea or an achievement, I leave them alone with one exception--I sometimes persist with people who are clearly so smart that I feel they should know better to fall into the mental trap they've fallen into. Roy doesn't give up as early or as easily as I do and repeatedly tries to penetrate their defenses. I can't decide whether to be in pity or awe of his willingness to constantly engage the face of myopic pessimism.

[VintageComics]

And because fighting eternal cynics is not only useless, it makes you look like you have an agenda. Repeatedly fighting someone with a bias ends up making you look biased yourself.

Exactly right. (thumbs u

 

Roy - if nothing else, you are prolific.

 

I'm optimistic to the point where my girlfriend repeatedly brands me a pollyana, but Roy's willingness to carry a torch to change the minds of the most pessimistic people around here puts me to shame. I believe that anyone can achieve or understand anything they're willing to put their minds and wills towards, but when someone clearly is closed off to an idea or an achievement, I leave them alone with one exception--I sometimes persist with people who are clearly so smart that I feel they should know better to fall into the mental trap they've fallen into. Roy doesn't give up as early or as easily as I do and repeatedly tries to penetrate their defenses. I can't decide whether to be in pity or awe of his willingness to constantly engage the face of myopic pessimism.

 

My horoscope clearly states that I was born on the 'day of tenacity'. I've said it multiple times on here, I'm like a pit bull when I get locked onto something and it's a gift when used properly but a curse when I don't stop and I should know better.

 

Where's Park when I need him.

 

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

You guys are over analyzing it.

My diagnosis: keyboard diarrhea

[Comicopolis]

Natural humidity shrinkage does not explain the "Twist" either.

 

 

damn, bob, when you first said some of your pedigree books had lost some of their color after a press, i wasn't sure i believed it, by NOW, you have a convert. that there is some fadin'!

 

I hear you can press the colours back in.

[Comicopolis]

Roy all this natural shrinkage talk still irks me, its a red herring and I'm not sure why its been debated to death in this thread. Its pretty clear that the books that originally raised concern in this thread were effected because of how they were pressed not because of the alignment of the moon, natural shrinkage, Church like stacks, etc. It's almost comical how much effort is being made trying to develop a theory that would suggest otherwise. I'm not buying it.

 

It is funny.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I had always thought that the clay content had something to do with it?

 

No, it is not the same thing. The clay has nothing to do with it. If it was the clay, it would shrink the same in both directions, as the clay is not oriented. It is all the grain.

 

Right, but why does the cover change so drastically compared to the interior? The interior seems quite stable compared to the cover so that is why I attributed it to clay causing the instability.

 

Which direction do the paper fibres run on an interior compared to a cover?

 

 

Roy, it's the interior that is changing "drastically" to the cover. The cover is the only stable part of this equation. Over time (time being 30 minutes or less) the interior pages start to dry out (meaning they loose the minimal humidity that is trapped in the paper fibers) & the interior shrinks. Since the cover is clay-coated, the humidity affects it differently and it remains relatively the same size.

 

I considered the possibility of the newsprint expanding while the coverstock remained static, but I discounted it for a variety of reasons:

1. assumption that it is unlikely that the newsprint is being hydrated to the extent of the coverstock, because the main $ benefit is in removing NCB cover imperfections

2. Unlikely to maintain consistent hydration throughout the newsprint possibly causing disproportionate expansion/contraction

3. Temperature not constant throughout newsprint as the pages closer to the plates will see higher temperatures for longer duration, possibly causing disproportionate expansion/contraction

 

Of course, all of the above could have little or no impact, but overall, it simply seems easier to have shrinking of a single page than expansion of multiple pages at a consistent rate across the multiple pages .

[Comicopolis]

Roy you need to know that you are doing a complete disservice to the cause for pressing.

 

You're partially right--it's better to mostly ignore the trollers and eternal wearers of tinfoil hats. When you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty but the pig likes it.

 

Is your pig wrestling experience extensive?

 

[Comicopolis]

And because fighting eternal cynics is not only useless, it makes you look like you have an agenda. Repeatedly fighting someone with a bias ends up making you look biased yourself.

Exactly right. (thumbs u

 

Roy - if nothing else, you are prolific.

 

I'm optimistic to the point where my girlfriend repeatedly brands me a pollyana, but Roy's willingness to carry a torch to change the minds of the most pessimistic people around here puts me to shame. I believe that anyone can achieve or understand anything they're willing to put their minds and wills towards, but when someone clearly is closed off to an idea or an achievement, I leave them alone with one exception--I sometimes persist with people who are clearly so smart that I feel they should know better to fall into the mental trap they've fallen into. Roy doesn't give up as early or as easily as I do and repeatedly tries to penetrate their defenses. I can't decide whether to be in pity or awe of his willingness to constantly engage the face of myopic pessimism.

 

Pessimism? Did I miss that part?

[Comicopolis]

If only the person who worked on these books could come here and answer all of the pertinent questions.

[fantastic_four]

I considered the possibility of the newsprint expanding while the coverstock remained static, but I discounted it for a variety of reasons:

1. assumption that it is unlikely that the newsprint is being hydrated to the extent of the coverstock, because the main $ benefit is in removing NCB cover imperfections

 

I don't know how Matt hydrates, but my best guess has always been some sort of humidity chamber big enough to accept loads of books from multiple clients, i.e. an enclosed area with a source of water that is allowed to evaporate and lightly wet the paper without allowing condensation to form on it (embedded example shown below). If that's right, the book should be equally hydrated throughout. It's possible he's using a wet press that does tend to humidify the covers more than the interior instead of a dry mount press--similar to the way a clothes iron shoots water vapor out as you iron--but I doubt it because it seems riskier.

 

[fantastic_four]

Another decent article on humidification techniques:

 

http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/sg/bpg/annual/v21/bp21-15.pdf

[Davenport]

If only the person who worked on these books could come here and answer all of the pertinent questions.

Did Susan Cicconi ever post?

 

It would be interesting to read an actual museum-trained professional conservator's take on the phenomenon.

 

Unless "the person who worked on these books" has a habit of documenting all the elements involved during treatment procedures, odds are they'd be speculating at best or offering CYA explanations at worst.

[Hepcat]

This thread gets worst every time I click on it. Don't buy the books that were destroyed. Don't shop with people who are selling these books, as they obviously can't understand that CGC is not grading these correctly. Money Talks, BS Walks. The second dealers are having issues selling these, or are having them sent back, the situation will be addressed.

 

Bingo. If demand for these comics evaporates, the incentive to damage comics in this way will evaporate. But then again the label collectors don't care anyway.