Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[comicwiz]

Top edge seems trimmed to me, look at the tip of both upper left and right corners.

 

 

There would have been no reason to trim the top as the 1/8" shift should have sharpened the spine. I can't imagine this group trimming a book unless it was guaranteed to increase profit and in this instance the risk/reward ratio doesn't fit.

 

That said, there looks like there should have been a very slight rub at the top of the spine after the shift, that does not appear in the scans. I would guess that the coverstock in that areas is slightly rolled toward the interior.

it's not trimmed. The shift gives the sharp corner illusion.

Not obvious on left corner I agree because of the RSR but take a closer look at right corner. The little green dot is at a micro shorter distance from the top edge in the second scan.

 

Hard to see I confess but if CGC is unable to catch obvious Costanzas and RSR books, how could they catch such micro-trimming ?

 

It's not trimmed - the only reason people perform the RSR is because they previously weren't penalized for doing so. Trimming, however, is a completely different matter.

Exactly. The only reason I see for such manipulations (including the possible return of micro-trimming) is because CGC do not penalize them...

 

CGC puts micro-trimmed books in a purple label slab - how is that not a penalty?

 

It makes no sense to go through all the trouble of "improving" this book through an RSR and then risk losing the money & work invested by adding a trim job that most likely would mean the book ends up in a restored slab.

 

You're making some big assumptions here.

 

Most noteworthy is that CGC is inspecting every micro-millimeter of a book. Of the more serious allegations discussed in this thread and in the past relating to "misses", I think clipped bits and micro-trims being missed might be the most realistic based on their unwillingness or inability (take your pick) to properly notice and penalize wear migrated to the spine on RSR examples.

 

The second, and perhaps equally noteworthy, is that an individual with the cajones to realign the spine of a book likely wouldn't flinch at the though of practicing nip and tuck techniques to the Nth degree if it meant a higher grade.

 

I'll give you that most here would deem such techniques as outrageous and risky, but based on the range of manipulation evidenced from prior examples worked-on by this individual, to hacks like this the grade outcome ALWAYS justifies the means.

[Spiderphill]

CGC puts micro-trimmed books in a purple label slab - how is that not a penalty?

That is if they can catch it... And after all the things I see and read about in this Forum that they are unable to catch, I would not be surprised if their ability has deteriorated over the years..

they don't need to trim anymore. In essence shifting the spine does the same job. Gives the illusion of sharp corners. The same goal of a trim. It also removes spine stress and makes it difficult to see on the spine. Reversing or shifting a spine is much more beneficial than a trim.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have no doubt that a micro-trimmer is reading these comments & laughing their off.

 

Not sure why anyone would currently feel confident that CGC is anywhere near consistent in detecting it.

[pickycollector]

CGC puts micro-trimmed books in a purple label slab - how is that not a penalty?

That is if they can catch it... And after all the things I see and read about in this Forum that they are unable to catch, I would not be surprised if their ability has deteriorated over the years..

they don't need to trim anymore. In essence shifting the spine does the same job. Gives the illusion of sharp corners. The same goal of a trim. It also removes spine stress and makes it difficult to see on the spine. Reversing or shifting a spine is much more beneficial than a trim.

That would also make micro-trimming harder to detect since you cannot tell if the result comes only from a RSR technique or not.

 

When I think about it, I am not sure which one is worse

[Spiderphill]

I have no doubt that a micro-trimmer is reading these comments & laughing their off.

 

Not sure why anyone would currently feel confident that CGC is anywhere near consistent in detecting it.

too much risk in trimming a book. Way too much. Especially if trimming talk is circulating and cgc starts putting books that aren't trimmed into purples out of fear.

 

Why trim when you can shift an avengers 1 8.5 into a 9.2

[Spiderphill]

CGC puts micro-trimmed books in a purple label slab - how is that not a penalty?

That is if they can catch it... And after all the things I see and read about in this Forum that they are unable to catch, I would not be surprised if their ability has deteriorated over the years..

they don't need to trim anymore. In essence shifting the spine does the same job. Gives the illusion of sharp corners. The same goal of a trim. It also removes spine stress and makes it difficult to see on the spine. Reversing or shifting a spine is much more beneficial than a trim.

That would also make micro-trimming harder to detect since you cannot tell if the result comes only from a RSR technique or not.

 

When I think about it, I am not sure which one is worse

we only have cgc to blame. I'm pro pressing but if I knew these techniques would happen. I'd be in anti pressing camp.

[VintageComics]

So, you see, character, or the lack of it, is at the very heart of this issue.

 

Don't disagree with you at all. (thumbs u

[wasonff]

I know Mark Zaid posted saying he was in a dialogue with CGC and would post here agaqin, but I have not seen him come back here, did I miss a post?

 

Mark? what happened to the dialogue? I hope no one tar and feathered you or anything.

 

Nah, they just figured if they waited it out, the problems would just magically disappear, and the boards would lose interest. It's hard to sustain negative emotions over a long period of time, which has happened here.

 

A few posts of lip service to slightly quell the mob seems to have sufficed in this instance.

 

With all due respect, I don't give lip service to anything or anyone. Nor do I let anything fade away without being addressed as promised.

 

My apologies to everyone for the delay but that is on me, not CGC. I have been very occupied in dealing with Benghazi issues. I trust the murder of a US Ambassador is understandably a legitimate distraction.

 

I will be back on this issue as soon as I can.

 

With all due respect Mark, perhaps you have too much on your plate.

 

Regards,

Drew

[comicwiz]

I have no doubt that a micro-trimmer is reading these comments & laughing their off.

 

Not sure why anyone would currently feel confident that CGC is anywhere near consistent in detecting it.

too much risk in trimming a book. Way too much. Especially if trimming talk is circulating and cgc starts putting books that aren't trimmed into purples out of fear.

 

Why trim when you can shift an avengers 1 8.5 into a 9.2

 

Keep in mind, that while the focus of RSR's technique is intended to shift spine wear to the rear cover, it also rearranges interior wraps that may at one time have protruded or exposed themselves to more wear than the cover wrap. In a sense, the interiors may have acted as a buffer to any incidental handling or damage. Rearranging through RSR means possibly accentuating or making more prominent one of those dinged/scuffed/ripped/frayed interior edges.

 

One thing I'm certain about is this. Based on the level of deception we've seen being practiced and rewarded, I'm just not prepared to rule out any "cheating" to attain the desired grade.

[Mark 1]

I know Mark Zaid posted saying he was in a dialogue with CGC and would post here agaqin, but I have not seen him come back here, did I miss a post?

 

Mark? what happened to the dialogue? I hope no one tar and feathered you or anything.

 

Nah, they just figured if they waited it out, the problems would just magically disappear, and the boards would lose interest. It's hard to sustain negative emotions over a long period of time, which has happened here.

 

A few posts of lip service to slightly quell the mob seems to have sufficed in this instance.

 

With all due respect, I don't give lip service to anything or anyone. Nor do I let anything fade away without being addressed as promised.

 

My apologies to everyone for the delay but that is on me, not CGC. I have been very occupied in dealing with Benghazi issues. I trust the murder of a US Ambassador is understandably a legitimate distraction.

 

I will be back on this issue as soon as I can.

 

With all due respect Mark, perhaps you have too much on your plate.

 

Regards,

Drew

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have no doubt that a micro-trimmer is reading these comments & laughing their off.

 

Not sure why anyone would currently feel confident that CGC is anywhere near consistent in detecting it.

too much risk in trimming a book. Way too much. Especially if trimming talk is circulating and cgc starts putting books that aren't trimmed into purples out of fear.

 

Why trim when you can shift an avengers 1 8.5 into a 9.2

 

Why NOT trim if CGC isn't catching it? Trimmer sends a batch of try-outs thru. They come back blue. Trimmer discovers there is no risk.....only reward.

 

 

How would you ever know that CGC missed a micro-trim on a book you purchase? Unless one of our forum detectives posts before pics that is....

 

Shrunken covers, RSR, stain removal....and who knows what else is getting blue labels. Doesn't create much faith in their detection skills IMO.

[mschmidt]

Top edge seems trimmed to me, look at the tip of both upper left and right corners.

 

 

There would have been no reason to trim the top as the 1/8" shift should have sharpened the spine. I can't imagine this group trimming a book unless it was guaranteed to increase profit and in this instance the risk/reward ratio doesn't fit.

 

That said, there looks like there should have been a very slight rub at the top of the spine after the shift, that does not appear in the scans. I would guess that the coverstock in that areas is slightly rolled toward the interior.

it's not trimmed. The shift gives the sharp corner illusion.

Not obvious on left corner I agree because of the RSR but take a closer look at right corner. The little green dot is at a micro shorter distance from the top edge in the second scan.

 

Hard to see I confess but if CGC is unable to catch obvious Costanzas and RSR books, how could they catch such micro-trimming ?

 

It's not trimmed - the only reason people perform the RSR is because they previously weren't penalized for doing so. Trimming, however, is a completely different matter.

Exactly. The only reason I see for such manipulations (including the possible return of micro-trimming) is because CGC do not penalize them...

 

CGC puts micro-trimmed books in a purple label slab - how is that not a penalty?

 

It makes no sense to go through all the trouble of "improving" this book through an RSR and then risk losing the money & work invested by adding a trim job that most likely would mean the book ends up in a restored slab.

 

You're making some big assumptions here.

 

Most noteworthy is that CGC is inspecting every micro-millimeter of a book. Of the more serious allegations discussed in this thread and in the past relating to "misses", I think clipped bits and micro-trims being missed might be the most realistic based on their unwillingness or inability (take your pick) to properly notice and penalize wear migrated to the spine on RSR examples.

 

The second, and perhaps equally noteworthy, is that an individual with the cajones to realign the spine of a book likely wouldn't flinch at the though of practicing nip and tuck techniques to the Nth degree if it meant a higher grade.

 

I'll give you that most here would deem such techniques as outrageous and risky, but based on the range of manipulation evidenced from prior examples worked-on by this individual, to hacks like this the grade outcome ALWAYS justifies the means.

 

But, again, the risk far outweighs the potential reward here. They are getting the grade bumps through the RSRs alone which carries no risk whatsoever - there's no logical reason why they need to take it 1 step further, do a micro-trim and potentially end up with a book in a purple label slab.

 

The paper has shifted because of the RSR - that's what you're seeing here.

 

And, yes, I do believe CGC can detect a micro-trim - do you have any evidence showing that they can't?

 

 

 

 

 

[mschmidt]

I have no doubt that a micro-trimmer is reading these comments & laughing their off.

 

Not sure why anyone would currently feel confident that CGC is anywhere near consistent in detecting it.

too much risk in trimming a book. Way too much. Especially if trimming talk is circulating and cgc starts putting books that aren't trimmed into purples out of fear.

 

Why trim when you can shift an avengers 1 8.5 into a 9.2

 

Why NOT trim if CGC isn't catching it? Trimmer sends a batch of try-outs thru. They come back blue. Trimmer discovers there is no risk.....only reward.

 

 

How would you ever know that CGC missed a micro-trim on a book you purchase? Unless one of our forum detectives posts before pics that is....

 

Shrunken covers, RSR, stain removal....and who knows what else is getting blue labels. Doesn't create much faith in their detection skills IMO.

 

That's a nonsense argument.

 

"Why NOT color touch if CGC isn't catching it? Color toucher sends a batch of try-outs thru. They come back blue. Color toucher discovers there is no risk.....only reward."

 

You have no proof whatsoever that CGC isn't capable of detecting trimming - as a matter of fact, we have tons of empirical evidence stating the exact opposite.

[Spiderphill]

I have no doubt that a micro-trimmer is reading these comments & laughing their off.

 

Not sure why anyone would currently feel confident that CGC is anywhere near consistent in detecting it.

too much risk in trimming a book. Way too much. Especially if trimming talk is circulating and cgc starts putting books that aren't trimmed into purples out of fear.

 

Why trim when you can shift an avengers 1 8.5 into a 9.2

 

Why NOT trim if CGC isn't catching it? Trimmer sends a batch of try-outs thru. They come back blue. Trimmer discovers there is no risk.....only reward.

 

 

How would you ever know that CGC missed a micro-trim on a book you purchase? Unless one of our forum detectives posts before pics that is....

 

Shrunken covers, RSR, stain removal....and who knows what else is getting blue labels. Doesn't create much faith in their detection skills IMO.

 

That's a nonsense argument.

 

"Why NOT color touch if CGC isn't catching it? Color toucher sends a batch of try-outs thru. They come back blue. Color toucher discovers there is no risk.....only reward."

 

You have no proof whatsoever that CGC isn't capable of detecting trimming - as a matter of fact, we have tons of empirical evidence stating the exact opposite.

in a nutshell on trimming speculation.

[comicwiz]

Top edge seems trimmed to me, look at the tip of both upper left and right corners.

 

 

There would have been no reason to trim the top as the 1/8" shift should have sharpened the spine. I can't imagine this group trimming a book unless it was guaranteed to increase profit and in this instance the risk/reward ratio doesn't fit.

 

That said, there looks like there should have been a very slight rub at the top of the spine after the shift, that does not appear in the scans. I would guess that the coverstock in that areas is slightly rolled toward the interior.

it's not trimmed. The shift gives the sharp corner illusion.

Not obvious on left corner I agree because of the RSR but take a closer look at right corner. The little green dot is at a micro shorter distance from the top edge in the second scan.

 

Hard to see I confess but if CGC is unable to catch obvious Costanzas and RSR books, how could they catch such micro-trimming ?

 

It's not trimmed - the only reason people perform the RSR is because they previously weren't penalized for doing so. Trimming, however, is a completely different matter.

Exactly. The only reason I see for such manipulations (including the possible return of micro-trimming) is because CGC do not penalize them...

 

CGC puts micro-trimmed books in a purple label slab - how is that not a penalty?

 

It makes no sense to go through all the trouble of "improving" this book through an RSR and then risk losing the money & work invested by adding a trim job that most likely would mean the book ends up in a restored slab.

 

You're making some big assumptions here.

 

Most noteworthy is that CGC is inspecting every micro-millimeter of a book. Of the more serious allegations discussed in this thread and in the past relating to "misses", I think clipped bits and micro-trims being missed might be the most realistic based on their unwillingness or inability (take your pick) to properly notice and penalize wear migrated to the spine on RSR examples.

 

The second, and perhaps equally noteworthy, is that an individual with the cajones to realign the spine of a book likely wouldn't flinch at the though of practicing nip and tuck techniques to the Nth degree if it meant a higher grade.

 

I'll give you that most here would deem such techniques as outrageous and risky, but based on the range of manipulation evidenced from prior examples worked-on by this individual, to hacks like this the grade outcome ALWAYS justifies the means.

 

But, again, the risk far outweighs the potential reward here. They are getting the grade bumps through the RSRs alone which carries no risk whatsoever - there's no logical reason why they need to take it 1 step further, do a micro-trim and potentially end up with a book in a purple label slab.

 

The paper has shifted because of the RSR - that's what you're seeing here.

 

And, yes, I do believe CGC can detect a micro-trim - do you have any evidence showing that they can't?

 

 

I'm not sure if it's because of my past involvement in threads like this, or my tell it like it is approach, but I have had a handful of people approach me in strict confidence that they have had resubbed/CPR'd books once sitting in a blue label, flagged for trimming.

 

My word to them that I would not reveal names or situations means more than making such revelations public. My guess though is that people doing pro CPR wouldn't dismiss what I'm stating to be fact based on their own experiences handling submissions to CGC on behalf of clients.

 

I also don't think it's necessary to split hairs in such instances to determine whether they were micro or plain "trimmed." What's essential to mention is that in at least two cases, I was informed CGC put up a fuss and didn't want to offer restitution for their mistakes until the discussion path veered in the direction of publicly outing their slip-up.

 

How often this happens, I'm not sure. But the fact that CGC missed trimming is telling enough for me to believe they can't consistently detect certain manipulative techniques.

[VintageComics]

Roy, as usual you have numerous things wrong. I have you on ignore because I don't enjoy reading your post. My interpretation is that you always have an alternative motive. So rather than get into a back and forth with you, I put you on ignore. Personally I thought it was a good path to go down.

 

I actually don't think you're being totally honest. You disagree with me and dislike what I post but rather than ignore me, you mock me while pretending to ignore me. Pretty childish if you ask me.

 

The first time I noticed it was when I said that some books, like the Church ped. books and the San Frans have a specific type of feel that I described as a "bounce" to the book - you then continued to go on and on using the word bounc in a mocking manner until I politely PMd you, asked you why and never got a real answer.

 

You even started a thread with the word "bounce" in the title, you thought it was so hilarious. Like, who does that?

 

It didn't matter that I was taught about that "bounce" feel (or freshness as some might call it) by a CGC grader, you insisted through your actions that I needed to take heat for it because you disagreed with it. The word petty comes to mind.

 

The next time was when there was a polite discussion about grades and prices in the GA forum. I specifically remember the discussion being about grades, I remember you tried to muddy my point (whether intentionally or unintentionally I don't know) by bringing price into the discussion. We disagreed a few times and then I eventually realized I was on ignore.

 

That didn't stop you from making pot shots at me, my character or anything else about me (including laughing at how I lost some money selling artwork). It's all good, though. I'm a big boy and I can take it. I just prefer to share both sides of a story if someone is going to disparage me openly so that people can make up their own minds fairly.

 

Second thing, I don't make my own booze. That is illegal and I would appreciate it if you didn't post that I am doing something illegal. I have purchased a still plus a lot of other equipment for distilling but I am not distilling until I have my permits so once again, please don't accuse me of illegal activity.

 

I am not an accountant which I assume is a backhand slap against me. I won't try to describe what I do as that would take too long and serves no purpose.

 

 

Ah, see, I didn't even know it was illegal and certainly did not mean to accuse you of anything illegal.

 

Those things were said simply to show how we are all people outside of this place, and yet you felt that someone was misrepresenting you online. Does that help me make you understand how it feels when someone is saying something about you that isn't true? I did it unintentionally but I guess it happened for a reason.

 

And why you would think being called an accountant is a back handed slap is beyond me (Louise went to school for accounting), but then you might see everything I write as trying to disparage you. I'm not. I'm just trying to talk about comics and have fun on here. Your mileage may vary.

 

 

[Mark 1]

[Bomber-Bob]

This hobby is turning into a joke. I'm happy I sold half of my keepers. I'm just going to CPR. Take the free money until the hobby is destroyed.

 

This hobby is in the toilet. Seriously. I can't believe another obvious example of spine realignment has been awarded a 9.2 grade. I have to believe it slipped by CGC. Their grading is too soft lately. They need to slow down and tighten up. Obviously this thread has not helped us, things seem worse than ever.

[mschmidt]

Top edge seems trimmed to me, look at the tip of both upper left and right corners.

 

 

There would have been no reason to trim the top as the 1/8" shift should have sharpened the spine. I can't imagine this group trimming a book unless it was guaranteed to increase profit and in this instance the risk/reward ratio doesn't fit.

 

That said, there looks like there should have been a very slight rub at the top of the spine after the shift, that does not appear in the scans. I would guess that the coverstock in that areas is slightly rolled toward the interior.

it's not trimmed. The shift gives the sharp corner illusion.

Not obvious on left corner I agree because of the RSR but take a closer look at right corner. The little green dot is at a micro shorter distance from the top edge in the second scan.

 

Hard to see I confess but if CGC is unable to catch obvious Costanzas and RSR books, how could they catch such micro-trimming ?

 

It's not trimmed - the only reason people perform the RSR is because they previously weren't penalized for doing so. Trimming, however, is a completely different matter.

Exactly. The only reason I see for such manipulations (including the possible return of micro-trimming) is because CGC do not penalize them...

 

CGC puts micro-trimmed books in a purple label slab - how is that not a penalty?

 

It makes no sense to go through all the trouble of "improving" this book through an RSR and then risk losing the money & work invested by adding a trim job that most likely would mean the book ends up in a restored slab.

 

You're making some big assumptions here.

 

Most noteworthy is that CGC is inspecting every micro-millimeter of a book. Of the more serious allegations discussed in this thread and in the past relating to "misses", I think clipped bits and micro-trims being missed might be the most realistic based on their unwillingness or inability (take your pick) to properly notice and penalize wear migrated to the spine on RSR examples.

 

The second, and perhaps equally noteworthy, is that an individual with the cajones to realign the spine of a book likely wouldn't flinch at the though of practicing nip and tuck techniques to the Nth degree if it meant a higher grade.

 

I'll give you that most here would deem such techniques as outrageous and risky, but based on the range of manipulation evidenced from prior examples worked-on by this individual, to hacks like this the grade outcome ALWAYS justifies the means.

 

But, again, the risk far outweighs the potential reward here. They are getting the grade bumps through the RSRs alone which carries no risk whatsoever - there's no logical reason why they need to take it 1 step further, do a micro-trim and potentially end up with a book in a purple label slab.

 

The paper has shifted because of the RSR - that's what you're seeing here.

 

And, yes, I do believe CGC can detect a micro-trim - do you have any evidence showing that they can't?

 

 

I'm not sure if it's because of my past involvement in threads like this, or my tell it like it is approach, but I have had a handful of people approach me in strict confidence that they have had resubbed/CPR'd books once sitting in a blue label, flagged for trimming.

 

My word to them that I would not reveal names or situations means more than making such revelations public. My guess though is that people doing pro CPR wouldn't dismiss what I'm stating to be fact based on their own experiences handling submissions to CGC on behalf of clients.

 

I also don't think it's necessary to split hairs in such instances to determine whether they were micro or plain "trimmed." What's essential to mention is that in at least two cases, I was informed CGC put up a fuss and didn't want to offer restitution for their mistakes until the discussion path veered in the direction of publicly outing their slip-up.

 

How often this happens, I'm not sure. But the fact that CGC missed trimming is telling enough for me to believe they can't consistently detect certain manipulative techniques.

 

I'm not following you here ... are you saying that in at least two cases blue label books were resubbed and then came back with a trimmed notation & purple label?

[comicwiz]

 

There would have been no reason to trim the top as the 1/8" shift should have sharpened the spine. I can't imagine this group trimming a book unless it was guaranteed to increase profit and in this instance the risk/reward ratio doesn't fit.

 

That said, there looks like there should have been a very slight rub at the top of the spine after the shift, that does not appear in the scans. I would guess that the coverstock in that areas is slightly rolled toward the interior.

it's not trimmed. The shift gives the sharp corner illusion.

Not obvious on left corner I agree because of the RSR but take a closer look at right corner. The little green dot is at a micro shorter distance from the top edge in the second scan.

 

Hard to see I confess but if CGC is unable to catch obvious Costanzas and RSR books, how could they catch such micro-trimming ?

 

It's not trimmed - the only reason people perform the RSR is because they previously weren't penalized for doing so. Trimming, however, is a completely different matter.

Exactly. The only reason I see for such manipulations (including the possible return of micro-trimming) is because CGC do not penalize them...

 

CGC puts micro-trimmed books in a purple label slab - how is that not a penalty?

 

It makes no sense to go through all the trouble of "improving" this book through an RSR and then risk losing the money & work invested by adding a trim job that most likely would mean the book ends up in a restored slab.

 

You're making some big assumptions here.

 

Most noteworthy is that CGC is inspecting every micro-millimeter of a book. Of the more serious allegations discussed in this thread and in the past relating to "misses", I think clipped bits and micro-trims being missed might be the most realistic based on their unwillingness or inability (take your pick) to properly notice and penalize wear migrated to the spine on RSR examples.

 

The second, and perhaps equally noteworthy, is that an individual with the cajones to realign the spine of a book likely wouldn't flinch at the though of practicing nip and tuck techniques to the Nth degree if it meant a higher grade.

 

I'll give you that most here would deem such techniques as outrageous and risky, but based on the range of manipulation evidenced from prior examples worked-on by this individual, to hacks like this the grade outcome ALWAYS justifies the means.

 

But, again, the risk far outweighs the potential reward here. They are getting the grade bumps through the RSRs alone which carries no risk whatsoever - there's no logical reason why they need to take it 1 step further, do a micro-trim and potentially end up with a book in a purple label slab.

 

The paper has shifted because of the RSR - that's what you're seeing here.

 

And, yes, I do believe CGC can detect a micro-trim - do you have any evidence showing that they can't?

 

 

I'm not sure if it's because of my past involvement in threads like this, or my tell it like it is approach, but I have had a handful of people approach me in strict confidence that they have had resubbed/CPR'd books once sitting in a blue label, flagged for trimming.

 

My word to them that I would not reveal names or situations means more than making such revelations public. My guess though is that people doing pro CPR wouldn't dismiss what I'm stating to be fact based on their own experiences handling submissions to CGC on behalf of clients.

 

I also don't think it's necessary to split hairs in such instances to determine whether they were micro or plain "trimmed." What's essential to mention is that in at least two cases, I was informed CGC put up a fuss and didn't want to offer restitution for their mistakes until the discussion path veered in the direction of publicly outing their slip-up.

 

How often this happens, I'm not sure. But the fact that CGC missed trimming is telling enough for me to believe they can't consistently detect certain manipulative techniques.

 

I'm not following you here ... are you saying that in at least two cases blue label books were resubbed and then came back with a trimmed notation & purple label?

 

More than two, and yes.