Answer from CGC.........

[Norrin_Radd]

I think this whole pressing business is an opportunity for an inventor. Someone needs to invent a scanner to scan the end of the comic in the CGC holder. Then using laser technology, determine the exact thickness of the book and compare it to standard thickness for that book. Any warping can also be detected.

 

 

In the end, pressing a comic to get a higher (unqualified) grade from CGC is misrepresenting it as something it is not. That is fraudulent. Clear and simple. That is why people are upset about a pressing operation running under the banner of CGC. Whether it is considered restoration or not is irrelevant.

[Red Hook]

NR, all you need is a little digital industrial laser caliper.. they are currenly used to measure the thickness of coatings applied to metal, wood etc. In fact, if you have the raw book, you can probably find a pair of manual measuring calipers that will do the job.

[BassGMan]

 

Yes, those ads comparing CGC prices to raw certainly IS a form of manipulation, but it is also a good marketing strategy. I would hardly consider those ads to be manipulating any overall sentiment though.

 

 

 

Sid. You're joking.....right? Could you....just .....stop....now? Your posts are getting sillier and sillier.

 

Joking? Hardly. Just how much influence do you think those ads have? Maybe it points out to the newbie what we collectors have done to books in high grade CGC slabs, but I don't think a small print ad campaign has conformed thousands of die-hard comic collectors into CGC zombies. If you feel it has, then please explain.

[BassGMan]

Sid. You're joking.....right? Could you....just .....stop....now? Your posts are getting sillier and sillier.

 

He is just riding the CGC gravy train and the bumps are making him dizzy.

 

Yeah, I am guilty. Evil me. I have sent some of my best books to CGC in order to get them graded so that I can take advantage of silly market sentiment that values 9.6 and 9.8 books at 10x guide. I have also sent many 8.5s and 9.0s, etc. to CGC so that I can sell them on Ebay for FMV, as we know that even with my outstanding feedback rating, that raw books sell for underguide due to assumed overgrading. Silly me for not wanting to sell my books at a discount when I can find a way not too.

 

CGC has enabled me to make more money on comics. But they have not affected my ethics or good business practices. For anyone that wants to check me out on Ebay please look up my username: sansc57803.

 

I'm not selling any comics in November or December but will be back up to full swing in January. For those that think I am crazy, whacked, or unethical, feel free to avoid my auctions.

[Tango 'n Cash]

Why do you feel that I or anyone else thinks that selling CGC comics is bad or evil? There is nothing wrong with it but to say that the CGC money does not color your views in the least is a pretty strange sentiment.

 

You make money from CGC's position in the hobby. You therefore should want CGC to continue on as the sole arbiter of slabbed books. You therefore should protect your continued ability to sell CGC comics by supporting the company that allows you to make nice profits. It is smart business, and it is what I would do as well.

 

The problem is it seems difficult for you to admit this to yourself.

[qualitycomix]

Why do you feel that I or anyone else thinks that selling CGC comics is bad or evil? There is nothing wrong with it but to say that the CGC money does not color your views in the least is a pretty strange sentiment.

 

You make money from CGC's position in the hobby. You therefore should want CGC to continue on as the sole arbiter of slabbed books. You therefore should protect your continued ability to sell CGC comics by supporting the company that allows you to make nice profits. It is smart business, and it is what I would do as well.

 

The problem is it seems difficult for you to admit this to yourself.

 

I'll tell you Sid, there's nothing wrong with CCG making extra $$$, just wrong of CCG to be grading books and restoring them as well. It's the same reasoning why employees of CGC can't buy comics, get them graded and then sell them on ebay. It's the same type of conflict of interest. Does that make sense to you?

 

But I appreciate your diverging viewpoint. We can't all be sheep, one way or the other. Discussion is good.

[Red Hook]

 

Yes, those ads comparing CGC prices to raw certainly IS a form of manipulation, but it is also a good marketing strategy. I would hardly consider those ads to be manipulating any overall sentiment though.

 

 

 

Sid. You're joking.....right? Could you....just .....stop....now? Your posts are getting sillier and sillier.

 

Joking? Hardly. Just how much influence do you think those ads have? Maybe it points out to the newbie what we collectors have done to books in high grade CGC slabs, but I don't think a small print ad campaign has conformed thousands of die-hard comic collectors into CGC zombies. If you feel it has, then please explain.

 

I'm more concerned with the attempt to manipulate sentiment among serious collectors (thus the placement) than the actual numbers, whatever they may be. Those ads tells me exactly where CGC is coming from. As a consumer, I question the validity of the implications presented in the ad. They are irresponsible and self-serving in the worst way. It's not impossible for a company to act in both their interest and their customer's interests. CGC is moving away from that position. The ads attempt to feed on the CGC price-gouging frenzy that has gone on. Whether it targets me personally (doesn't affect me at all) or the newer collectors who are being misled into thinking that slabbed books from last week are going to be good for anything more than hotplates in the future, isn't what this is about. It might be a good marketing strategy, but that doesn't make it responsible or ethical.

 

Sid, I think you've spun this as much as a CGC apologist can spin this thing. You're defense of CGC is so one-dimensional, it's lost it's strength. You keep throwing out assumptions about how many of us there are who don't approve of pressing. I think you're wrong. And if our numbers are so low, why doesn't CGC, or Heritage, or any of the larger entities in the collector/dealer universe just get out there, blow the lid off it all, and say, "(a)This is what is going on, (b)there is nothing wrong with it, and © we collect, buy, sell, and create pressed books". All we've gotten is (b), which is totally meaningless without a or c.

 

Again, my challenge is for CGC and the top dealers & collectors to make a public announcement that they have seen, graded, sold and happily collected pressed books. They act like it's something illicit, because they know the biz will take a major shot if it becomes public record. This isn't happening Sid, because they KNOW what the fallout is going to be. BIG!

[qualitycomix]

 

Yes, those ads comparing CGC prices to raw certainly IS a form of manipulation, but it is also a good marketing strategy. I would hardly consider those ads to be manipulating any overall sentiment though.

 

 

 

Sid. You're joking.....right? Could you....just .....stop....now? Your posts are getting sillier and sillier.

 

Joking? Hardly. Just how much influence do you think those ads have? Maybe it points out to the newbie what we collectors have done to books in high grade CGC slabs, but I don't think a small print ad campaign has conformed thousands of die-hard comic collectors into CGC zombies. If you feel it has, then please explain.

 

I'm more concerned with the attempt to manipulate sentiment among serious collectors (thus the placement) than the actual numbers, whatever they may be. Those ads tells me exactly where CGC is coming from. As a consumer, I question the validity of the implications presented in the ad. They are irresponsible and self-serving in the worst way. It's not impossible for a company to act in both their interest and their customer's interests. CGC is moving away from that position. The ads attempt to feed on the CGC price-gouging frenzy that has gone on. Whether it targets me personally (doesn't affect me at all) or the newer collectors who are being misled into thinking that slabbed books from last week are going to be good for anything more than hotplates in the future, isn't what this is about. It might be a good marketing strategy, but that doesn't make it responsible or ethical.

 

Sid, I think you've spun this as much as a CGC apologist can spin this thing. You're defense of CGC is so one-dimensional, it's lost it's strength. You keep throwing out assumptions about how many of us there are who don't approve of pressing. I think you're wrong. And if our numbers are so low, why doesn't CGC, or Heritage, or any of the larger entities in the collector/dealer universe just get out there, blow the lid off it all, and say, "(a)This is what is going on, (b)there is nothing wrong with it, and © we collect, buy, sell, and create pressed books". All we've gotten is (b), which is totally meaningless without a or c.

 

Again, my challenge is for CGC and the top dealers & collectors to make a public announcement that they have seen, graded, sold and happily collected pressed books. They act like it's something illicit, because they know the biz will take a major shot if it becomes public record. This isn't happening Sid, because they KNOW what the fallout is going to be. BIG!

 

I usually agree with 98% of your posts Brad, but I think you've gone a little off-topic and directed an unwarranted attack on CGC about their ads. CGC has every right to market their product in any way they choose, and in this case, their ads are NOT misleading. They are a reflection of what's happening in the hobby, not what they have invented in their heads. Why wouldn't they want to capitalize and advertise on the additonal $$$ that a slab brings? Wouldn't you if you were in the business of slabbing comics and saw how much more $$$ a slabbed book achieved? Call me crazy, but I would be playing up that aspect for all it's worth.

[Tango 'n Cash]

CGC has every right to market their product in any way they choose, and in this case, their ads are NOT misleading. They are a reflection of what's happening in the hobby, not what they have invented in their heads.

 

My only problem is that the CGC ads do not accurately reflect the true costs involved. These show a comic in NM condition compared to a CGC 9.8 copy, but fail to mention that CGC charges $15 to grade a single Modern book, there are significant S&H costs both ways and that the chances of receiving a 9.8 grade are not guaranteed.

[Red Hook]

Well, I do think the ads are misleading. Did they carry a disclaimer, about future results not guaranteed? Like a mutual fund ad? If they did, then I stand corrected. Maybe they did. But the ads definitely were created to promote the speculation in future prices, which there is no guarantee for.

[qualitycomix]

CGC has every right to market their product in any way they choose, and in this case, their ads are NOT misleading. They are a reflection of what's happening in the hobby, not what they have invented in their heads.

 

My only problem is that the CGC ads do not accurately reflect the true costs involved. These show a comic in NM condition compared to a CGC 9.8 copy, but fail to mention that CGC charges $15 to grade a single Modern book, there are significant S&H costs both ways and that the chances of receiving a 9.8 grade are not guaranteed.

 

So CGC should put a disclaimer at the bottom of their ads:

 

"Your chances of getting a 9.8 are slim to none, unless your initials are JE. In fact, it's gonna cost you a bundle to get your books slabbed. We hide our pricing structure right in a link off of our web site. Sshhhh, it's a secret. You might not even want to submit any books. Just too dang expensive"

[Red Hook]

Thanks for starting my day off with a good one QC!

[Red Hook]

Can someone post a scan of that ad, or a link?

[Tango 'n Cash]

"Your chances of getting a 9.8 are slim to none, unless your initials are JE. In fact, it's gonna cost you a bundle to get your books slabbed. We hide our pricing structure right in a link off of our web site. Sshhhh, it's a secret. You might not even want to submit any books. Just too dang expensive"

 

Is that supposed to be funny?

 

I thought it was pretty obvious that when comparing a $20 NM sale of a comic with a $100 sale of a NM 9.8 copy that the $15 grading fee and S&H fee should be part of the equation. If CGC is promoting their profit making ability then post all the costs involved with getting the slab.

[BassGMan]

Why do you feel that I or anyone else thinks that selling CGC comics is bad or evil? There is nothing wrong with it but to say that the CGC money does not color your views in the least is a pretty strange sentiment.

 

You make money from CGC's position in the hobby. You therefore should want CGC to continue on as the sole arbiter of slabbed books. You therefore should protect your continued ability to sell CGC comics by supporting the company that allows you to make nice profits. It is smart business, and it is what I would do as well.

 

The problem is it seems difficult for you to admit this to yourself.

 

Your statement is logical, and yes I do want CGC to continue on as it does help me personally. But you are wrong in the sense that I let myself be biased towards CGC in a way to agree with every move they make. Don't forget, I was the one that brought up the removal of Shadroch's post about CGC slab cracking in the previous "Is this where the hobby is going?" thread. That was because removing a thread that helps consumers be more aware of potential product flaws I thought was a disservice to their customers who should be very aware of any design flaws. CGC really made me mad then, and I let it be known. CGC has been upfront about not being able to detect and confirm professional pressing. That is being up front. We know how they stand on the issue. So I am not against the decisions they have made surrounding that area. I will not assume that they are involved in any kind of preferrential treatment or shady business deals. All I hear are rants and rumors and speculation. You guys may rub off on me some, and there is much truth to what many of you say. But I do not buy into conspiracy theories and I don't jump onto any bandwagons whether they help me out or not.

[RS]

[Farkus-migration]

I thought it was pretty obvious that when comparing a $20 NM sale of a comic with a $100 sale of a NM 9.8 copy that the $15 grading fee and S&H fee should be part of the equation. If CGC is promoting their profit making ability then post all the costs involved with getting the slab.

Yeah, and they should have included a notation detailing the original cost of the books, and the gas costs (or food if the person walked or biked) associated with originally purchasing them. They should also have made a notation of the costs that might be involved in selling the books...eBay fees...convention fees, etc. And they should probably have mentioned the greater risk associated with buying raw books over the internet. And lastly, they should have included a warning somewhere that coffee is hot and that you shouldn't iron your clothes in the shower.

[FFB]

Pressing to me is applying a form of pressure to make the book appear more square and flat..

 

OK - so is heat involved in pressing? Humidity? What tools are used in pressing? How are the cover inks prevented from being harmed in the process? How arfe the staples protected? Is the book kept whole or dismantled?

 

If wet cleaning in water is restoration, then why isn't pressing with humidity restoration? Just because the staples are removed during wet cleaning, but not during NDP pressing with humidity?

 

If that's the case, then why do books with replaced/cleaned staples get a green label and not a purple label?

 

If a duck eats and then goes for a swim five minutes later, will he get a cramp?

[qualitycomix]

If a duck eats and then goes for a swim five minutes later, will he get a cramp?

 

[Tango 'n Cash]

I thought it was pretty obvious that when comparing a $20 NM sale of a comic with a $100 sale of a NM 9.8 copy that the $15 grading fee and S&H fee should be part of the equation. If CGC is promoting their profit making ability then post all the costs involved with getting the slab.

Yeah, and they should have included a notation detailing the original cost of the books, and the gas costs (or food if the person walked or biked) associated with originally purchasing them.

 

Why is something this obvious so difficult for some people to see? The costs listed in your posts are not quantifiable (and pretty stupid if I say so myself) but grading costs are 100% consistent. It is right there on the price list and if CGC is going to extol the virtues of their profit-making machine ($20 vs. $100), then showing their grading charges would be in the best interests of truth in advertising.

 

Or to look at it in real life let's say a guy has a 9.8 (assumed) copy of a comic, according to the ad he can reasonably expect a $20 return selling it as-is, but he cannot get $100 as a CGC 9.8. That's because there are grading/shipping charges that need to be paid in order to grade that comic and sell it as a 9.8. So at the end of the day the sales comparison is way off.

 

I should run an add for my diamond-studded case where a comic without it sells for $20 but with my patented DES (Diamond Encrusted Slab) that same comic sells for $300,000. Too bad the case and diamond carat cost is also $300K.