Grader Notes

[RockMyAmadeus]

Do you think CGC will charge HERITAGE AUCTION for Grader

Notes on comics submitted by HERITAGE for Grading?

 

mm

They have played favorites before, and likely continue to do so.

 

How do they play favourites?

 

Really. You think Heritage waits as long for their books as I do?

 

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.collecting.coins/amWtMpNk-W8

[toro]

I still don't get why notes can't be made available through online lookup. Structure it so 3 lookups can be performed a day free of charge. If anyone needs to lookup 5 or 10 in a day, there's a fee for each of those amounts. Price climbs accordingly for 20 lookups, and so on. This way, everyone's on the same page and the same paragraph. The 3 free lookups will make the buyers happy. The dealers who need to scale the service can decide to wait to do the lookups over a few days, or pay the piper. Graders get to do their job in an undivided manner. CGC has its cake and gets less face time with sour PR cream pie.

 

 

For me what would be better is have the person who logs in have their CGC identification # that they use to submit linked to user id on the interface. You then should be able to look up any of your own for free, but if you want to check another book, well it will cost you. Something not totally insane like $30, but still have some kind of flat fee, heck if it was $1, I might check out notes on books I never could buy, but was just interested in the Tec 27 or the Action #1 in 3.5.

[Aman619]

I read the deal again. outside of the question of whether CGC "can" charge for notes, many of us who feel they can still feel they are too expensive. But reading the pricing again, the $30 price is just for walkthrus. How many of us actually do many walkthrus? I don't. Just for very very valuable books. Books worth a heck of a lot more than $30

 

so Im really looking at the lower priced tiers. Like a cup of fancy coffee, or three. Thats not the end of the world. AND, as pointed out, CGC is calling this "Introductory prices". Chances are that they will be revised downward since any higher would be WAY too high.

[chrisco37]

I read the deal again. outside of the question of whether CGC "can" charge for notes, many of us who feel they can still feel they are too expensive. But reading the pricing again, the $30 price is just for walkthrus. How many of us actually do many walkthrus? I don't. Just for very very valuable books. Books worth a heck of a lot more than $30

 

so Im really looking at the lower priced tiers. Like a cup of fancy coffee, or three. Thats not the end of the world. AND, as pointed out, CGC is calling this "Introductory prices". Chances are that they will be revised downward since any higher would be WAY too high.

 

I still think $15 is way too high. It shouldn't be more than a few bucks.

 

Say I was looking at two similarly priced books. I can only get one. I'm trying to determine which one I prefer, and I want the notes to make sure that one or both are acceptable. It's still going to cost me $30 extra (for me) for one book. Or maybe no book.

 

I certainly don't understand the different pricing. That's just a cash grab. I think the grading tiers are a bit of a cash grab as well, although it's certainly more acceptable in my mind. There is alot more inherent risk to CGC grading an Action #1 than there is grading last months Walking Dead. Even if the grading process is identical.

[Boba]

If this isn't sorted by time my subscription is due, I'm probably going to bow-out of this shell game. I'd rather spend my money on actuall books not fees to CGC. I hope others consider showing their displeasure with their wallets.

[hockey&comicsguy]

I dont understand how anyone educated thinks that cgc charging for graders notes isn't absolutely rediculous. If I took an exam in college and got a grade and the professor told me my tuition and credit hour payments didn't cover an explanation of my grade. Furthermore, I only had access to the raw number unless I paid extra? Please.

 

This is a serious analogy. I am a teacher who grades papers and could not imagine denying the student a full explanation for their grade. The problem is that as compelling as this is in the case of CGC it only suggests a moral/ethical (pick your term) obligation. It is not yet clear to me at all that they are under a contractual obligation to provide access to notes for free.

 

The other limitation of this analogy is that while my student has a right to an explanation of their grade for their paper it does not entitle third parties to an explanation of someone else's grade, and indeed in most schools third parties are not allowed to even know another person's grade.

 

And the comic is finally not like the essay or test of the student, which has only meaning within a given school or diploma and its standards.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for this analogy and its spirit, but I cannot see any legal traction here.

 

 

Thanks for pointing out the numerous problems with the Urologists analogy. You did it far nicer than I would have.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

I still think $15 is way too high. It shouldn't be more than a few bucks.

 

 

 

But why? Why shouldn't it be more than a few bucks? What would be your reasoning for this? From my chair, I have no idea what CGC's finances are so how can I say what is and isn't a fair price. How do we as consumers decide what CGC's profit margin should be? Do we get to do that anywhere else in life? If you're setting prices for the things you buy let me know how to do it my good friend b/c I'm having no luck.

 

 

[hockey&comicsguy]

I still don't get why notes can't be made available through online lookup. Structure it so 3 lookups can be performed a day free of charge. If anyone needs to lookup 5 or 10 in a day, there's a fee for each of those am ounts. Price climbs accordingly for 20 lookups, and so on. This way, everyone's on the same page and the same paragraph. The 3 free lookups will make the buyers happy. The dealers who need to scale the service can decide to wait to do the lookups over a few days, or pay the piper. Graders get to do their job in an undivided manner. CGC has its cake and gets less face time with sour PR cream pie.

 

At 3 free lookups per day I can look up over a 1000 bucks a year (free of charge). And if I reach my daily quota early I'll just text you or another friend and ask them to look something up for me. If i'm CGC, any free look ups is a complete non starter.

 

As for adding a charge for going over, what would that amount be? Whatever CGC puts forth would be pilloried by us just like their current pricing is.

 

Like I mentioned in an earlier posting, people are accustomed to free notes to the point that we still want free notes (your 3/day example). And if we can't get free notes we want to dictate what the pricing should be for notes.

 

Where else in life do we get to do either of these things, suggest a vendor offer multiple free items and also set their pricing for them?

[Boba]

hockeyandcomicsguy- A business also has to consider the value of a product or service and if their public is going to be willing to pay the price they set. I don't think the graders notes all of a sudden became prohibitively costly for CGC to produce hence the new fees. I think like Chrisco37 said it's mostly a money-grab.

[Marty Mann]

*Introductory Pricing.

 

mm

[Davenport]

A business also has to consider the value of a product or service and if their public is going to be willing to pay the price they set. I don't think the grades notes all of a sudden became prohibitively costly for CGC to produce hence the new fees. I think like Chrisco37 said it's mostly a money-grab.

CGC stated years ago Certification is not an inspection service. And stated it again in that recent quote:

 

From CGC:

 

"I am sorry, but notes have never actually been a part of the

service. We started to offer it when requested however notes

had always been intended purely for internal use. When you

submit comics for grading to CGC you are paying for our opinion

of the final condition of the comic, not the reason for us coming

to the determination. As more and more requests started to come

in, our graders would be tied up for hours each day and thus got

significantly less books graded, so thus the change.".

 

mm

 

Grader's notes were intially used as part of the fandom acceptance process, a long and slow undertaking.

So, CGC Certification is offered as a 'Who' value, not a 'How or What' value. It shouldn't matter how the opinion was arrived at, it's a CGC opinion. They can't state it any more clearly than they already have.

[chrisco37]

 

I still think $15 is way too high. It shouldn't be more than a few bucks.

 

 

 

But why? Why shouldn't it be more than a few bucks? What would be your reasoning for this? From my chair, I have no idea what CGC's finances are so how can I say what is and isn't a fair price. How do we as consumers decide what CGC's profit margin should be? Do we get to do that anywhere else in life? If you're setting prices for the things you buy let me know how to do it my good friend b/c I'm having no luck.

 

 

I really don't have a good answer to that.

 

I know I won't be paying $15/ea for notes. I'd pay a buck or two. This is based on my experience with getting notes (when they were free). The amount (or lack of) info on the graders notes did/does not merit $15. If they were highly detailed, I could understand it.

 

They're not "worth" $15 to me. I'd pay a buck or two to verify a potential deal-breaking defect. I'm not paying $15-30 to find that out. I'll just not buy the book.

[Bruno_s4]

Okay so here's another issue.

 

I have taken screenshots of the last three ASM 1 CGC 7.5's sold in 2011.

Even though this is a $10k book the first two only charged $15 and the last one charged $30.

Shouldn't they all be $30 fees for a book at this price range?

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Okay so here's another issue.

 

I have taken screenshots of the last three ASM 1 CGC 7.5's sold in 2011.

Even though this is a $10k book the first two only charged $15 and the last one charged $30.

Shouldn't they all be $30 fees for a book at this price range?

 

 

From what I can gather, it's not the value of the book when it sells that determines the fee, but rather the service it was submitted through at the time of submission.

[VintageComics]

That is a point i brougt up a while back.

 

I sometimes submit a walkthrough where I might miss something and the book might be worth significantly less, and yet it still costs $30 for the notes.

[Flaming_Telepath]

That is a point i brougt up a while back.

 

I sometimes submit a walkthrough where I might miss something and the book might be worth significantly less, and yet it still costs $30 for the notes.

 

Which backs up my thought that it's the tier that dictates the fee, not the value at sale?

[hockey&comicsguy]

hockeyandcomicsguy- A business also has to consider the value of a product or service and if their public is going to be willing to pay the price they set. I don't think the graders notes all of a sudden became prohibitively costly for CGC to produce hence the new fees. I think like Chrisco37 said it's mostly a money-grab.

 

Oh I agree. We have to remember though that this thing is in its infancy. I quote new work all the time in my business. I always start high b/c it's easy to lower your price. It's a damned headache to raise it.

 

And besides, think of all the times people have spoken about the fact that CGC is the only game in town. Do we think that CGC doesn't realize that? They're not dumb. They're going to price it aggressively (in our opinion) and see if it sticks. All we can do is not pay it.

 

Think about that. What happens if we don't pay it? It's no skin of CGC's back as they were giving it away for free anyway. So us not using the service doesn't impact them at all. And as others have mentioned, perhaps the prohibitive (in our opinion) pricing was designed specifically to be out of reach so CGC wouldn't have to deal with this anymore. And if people do pay for the notes, CGC makes out. It's a win-win-win scenario for them. Because, as we've already pointed out, where else are you going to go to get your books slabbed?

 

If charging for notes sticks at the current pricing and it's deemed legal that they can do this, CGC has no reason to lower pricing simply b/c people don't like the cost. The only way you can affect CGC is to stop slabbing books and let them know that the reason you've stopped is b/c you're protesting the high charge for notes.

 

Until that happens , CGC has no reason to lower the prices or continue to give away free notes. We can complain 'till we're blue in the face. But if we don't speak with our wallets what's the point?

[Bruno_s4]

That is a point i brougt up a while back.

 

I sometimes submit a walkthrough where I might miss something and the book might be worth significantly less, and yet it still costs $30 for the notes.

 

Which backs up my thought that it's the tier that dictates the fee, not the value at sale?

 

I agree with you but that still doesn't explain how these ASM 1's were not put through walk thru tier. Let's say they were both pressed from 5.0 to 7.5 (for arguments sake) a 5.0 is still $5k. Even if they were sent in raw they should not have gone Express Tier.

 

If The CGC can't maintain their Tier classifications then this, along with Roy's comments are even more reason to at least eliminate the $15 to $30 bump to graders notes....

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

If The CGC can't maintain their Tier classifications then this, along with Roy's comments are even more reason to at least eliminate the $15 to $30 bump to graders notes....

 

Tier classifications are mostly a joke.

[Transplant]

Denial

Anger

Bargaining

Depression

Acceptance

 

Same thing every time for CGC rate increases or policy changes.