Two simple questions about comic storage .........

[Hobgoblin]

Hey all. So I received an allotment of Mylites 2, fullbacks, and microchamber paper that I ordered. I was wondering two things, because some of this stuff is new to me, since I just got back into comics earlier this year....

 

1. Is microchamber paper needed with more modern Marvel books? They're obviously using different paper now, which may not be as affected by the inside cover as the older paper used in books prior to this century.

 

2. I've read/heard that mylars shouldn't be taped as your would the flaps on polybags. Does this hold for Mylites as well? I personally don't see any problem, aside from making sure the tape never catches the book cover, but I'm always aware of that.

 

[Darthdiesel]

Hey all. So I received an allotment of Mylites 2, fullbacks, and microchamber paper that I ordered.

 

Boy, ComicSupply really got around these forums

 

1. Is microchamber paper needed with more modern Marvel books? They're obviously using different paper now, which may not be as affected by the inside cover as the older paper used in books prior to this century.

 

Why not? Couldn't hurt, right? Way I see it, Bonze and older have already been offgassing for the last 30 or more years so they are already done for...sacrifice the "walking dead" and save the moderns while you can!

 

2. I've read/heard that mylars shouldn't be taped as your would the flaps on polybags. Does this hold for Mylites as well? I personally don't see any problem, aside from making sure the tape never catches the book cover, but I'm always aware of that.

 

Why tape mylites? They are snug enough to prevent accidental sliding. Problem is that there is static build up and sometimes if removing a comic hastily, part of the cover sticks to the mylite/mylar while the rest of the books rips away as you are pulling the book out...

[Hobgoblin]

Why tape mylites? They are snug enough to prevent accidental sliding. Problem is that there is static build up and sometimes if removing a comic hastily, part of the cover sticks to the mylite/mylar while the rest of the books rips away as you are pulling the book out...

 

I just really hate that damn flap.

[blowout]

Why tape mylites?

 

To keep air out.

[ComicSupply]

I don't necessarily think you have to, but I personally do it.

 

I don't like the flap either, or the extra bit of mylar that is present. I think that if the mylar was better fit to the board, then you wouldn't have to worry about it.

 

Then again, I don't necessarily like the idea behind leaving the books open to air.

 

Today's books are printed on different paper, but by folding the flap in, or taping it, you will eliminate or slow the process of oxidation on the tops of the books.

[Darthdiesel]

Today's books are printed on different paper, but by folding the flap in, or taping it, you will eliminate or slow the process of oxidation on the tops of the books.

 

Thanks to ou and Blowout for enlightening me. I somehow thought that covering the box these were in would be enough to accomplish the protection you listed above. Also, weighing that against the potential for tape to catch on your prized book, I'm willing to go with the 'no tape' option and live with the consequences I've never taped a mylite, but that's just me

[DKB]

He did say today's books. I've yet to meet a modern that tape doesn't come right off of.

 

That said, I still tape down my old books. In most cases I don't intend to pull them out of their mylites more than a few times a decade, and when I do, I just break the tape or take it off before I take the book out.

[Stronguy]

2. I've read/heard that mylars shouldn't be taped as your would the flaps on polybags. Does this hold for Mylites as well? I personally don't see any problem, aside from making sure the tape never catches the book cover, but I'm always aware of that.

 

This is what I use on any books I put in Mylites. The adhesive is the same as that on a Post-It -- it will not damage your book if it catches.

 

[Stronguy]

Thanks to ou and Blowout for enlightening me. I somehow thought that covering the box these were in would be enough to accomplish the protection you listed above. Also, weighing that against the potential for tape to catch on your prized book, I'm willing to go with the 'no tape' option and live with the consequences I've never taped a mylite, but that's just me

 

So how do you riffle thru all of those boxes of variants you have? All of those flaps must surely get in your way.

[fantastic_four]

Then again, I don't necessarily like the idea behind leaving the books open to air.

 

What do you think about the Library of Congress's research posted on their web site, as well as their recommendations if you use their "ask a librarian" feature on the site to ask questions about this topic, that keeping paper document like comics completely sealed is more harmful than keeping them open to air on 3 or 4 sides? The reason they give is that sealing them in leaves them to "stew in their own juices," i.e. the acid naturally released from wood-pulp products further degrades the book if those acids are inhibited from flowing out into the open air.

 

I can give you links to threads around here where we've discussed this before if you're not sure what I'm talking about. Those threads also contain links to some of the LoC research I was referring to.

[Darthdiesel]

Thanks to ou and Blowout for enlightening me. I somehow thought that covering the box these were in would be enough to accomplish the protection you listed above. Also, weighing that against the potential for tape to catch on your prized book, I'm willing to go with the 'no tape' option and live with the consequences I've never taped a mylite, but that's just me

 

So how do you riffle thru all of those boxes of variants you have? All of those flaps must surely get in your way.

 

 

They are all slabbed and as for my dupes, I use them for resto and press practice before I sell them

 

I rarely rifle through the variant boxes. They are pregraded and sorted and entered in the excel inventory sheet so if I needed to trade/sell - I just go look it up then and pull it out

[Darthdiesel]

Then again, I don't necessarily like the idea behind leaving the books open to air.

 

What do you think about the Library of Congress's research posted on their web site, as well as their recommendations if you use their "ask a librarian" feature on the site to ask questions about this topic, that keeping paper document like comics completely sealed is more harmful than keeping them open to air on 3 or 4 sides? The reason they give is that sealing them in leaves them to "stew in their own juices," i.e. the acid naturally released from wood-pulp products further degrades the book if those acids are inhibited from flowing out into the open air.

 

I thought this was the impetus for the use of microchamber paper. Even with the CGC inner well's ability to "breathe", as I'm assuming from statements that they are not airtight/waterproof, this "stewing" is enough of a concern to warrant the addition of the MC paper. I don't know if taping down the flap of the mylar/mylite would be enough to TOTALLY prevent these harmful gases from escaping. I'm wondering if many of the older collectors who found this oxidation of the top edge, not only did not tape down their flaps, but also left the comic storage box uncovered, leaving the top edges exposed totally to the elements/sunlight/moisture.

[fantastic_four]

I thought this was the impetus for the use of microchamber paper. Even with the CGC inner well's ability to "breathe", as I'm assuming from statements that they are not airtight/waterproof, this "stewing" is enough of a concern to warrant the addition of the MC paper.

 

Borock has said they inserted the microchamber paper as a trade-off given the fact that they thought they had to totally encapsulate a comic. I still wonder whether they could have designed slits in the inner/outer well down both sides and on the top/bottom to allow gases to escape. The microchamber paper is a decent trade-off, except for the fact that it eventually "fills up" and needs to be changed out to continue to be effective.

 

 

I don't know if taping down the flap of the mylar/mylite would be enough to TOTALLY prevent these harmful gases from escaping.

 

I don't know either, but the LoC indicates that it is. The tests someone linked to in another thread showed a LoC graph of paper stored with all 4 sides sealed, with 2 sides sealed, and with no sides sealed. 4 sides sealed and 2 sides sealed yielded similar results, whereas no sides sealed led to the least degradation in "advanced aging" tests, whatever that means (maybe they stick it in a microwave? )

[Hobgoblin]

Then again, I don't necessarily like the idea behind leaving the books open to air.

 

What do you think about the Library of Congress's research posted on their web site, as well as their recommendations if you use their "ask a librarian" feature on the site to ask questions about this topic, that keeping paper document like comics completely sealed is more harmful than keeping them open to air on 3 or 4 sides? The reason they give is that sealing them in leaves them to "stew in their own juices," i.e. the acid naturally released from wood-pulp products further degrades the book if those acids are inhibited from flowing out into the open air.

 

I thought this was the impetus for the use of microchamber paper. Even with the CGC inner well's ability to "breathe", as I'm assuming from statements that they are not airtight/waterproof, this "stewing" is enough of a concern to warrant the addition of the MC paper. I don't know if taping down the flap of the mylar/mylite would be enough to TOTALLY prevent these harmful gases from escaping. I'm wondering if many of the older collectors who found this oxidation of the top edge, not only did not tape down their flaps, but also left the comic storage box uncovered, leaving the top edges exposed totally to the elements/sunlight/moisture.

 

I personally think this is a crock for the most part. I mean I do know that pages turn yellow or brown for a reason, but I have some books from the 80's that have been completely sealed in polybags for 15 years or so, being opened only probably twice during that time frame, and they still have nice white pages.

[fantastic_four]

I personally think this is a crock for the most part. I mean I do know that pages turn yellow or brown for a reason, but I have some books from the 80's that have been completely sealed in polybags for 15 years or so, being opened only probably twice during that time frame, and they still have nice white pages.

 

It's not necessarily a crock, it's just that the number of variables which go into the preservation equation are numerous enough to where you can concentrate on just a few and find trends which support a hypothesis like the one you offered above. I think the LoC recommendations are intended to be best practices intended to work across a variety of paper types and storage environments with the intent of preserving the work for HUNDREDS of years, which is far beyond most of us can envision given our comparatively short lifespans.

 

Let's see if we can gather some of the other variables from the environment your comics were stored in:

 

• What state do you live in?
• Where were your comics stored since the 80s?
• Since the 80s, how often have you opened them from their bags?

[Darthdiesel]

I mean I do know that pages turn yellow or brown for a reason, but I have some books from the 80's that have been completely sealed in polybags for 15 years or so, being opened only probably twice during that time frame, and they still have nice white pages.

 

I have had the same experience but maybe some of the older collectors on here have watched their books bought in the 40s and 50s off the newstands turn an unsightly brown/tan/cream color even if they were stored properly. but even with moderns, not everyone lives in the same climate and environmental conditions. While my storebought copies from the 80s and 90's still exhibit a nice white interior, I have bought copies from the same time period off ebay and they look markedly aged in comparison. Maybe a sheet of microchamber paper would have helped to offset this phenomena...or beter storage conditions from the original owner.

[divad]

Hey all. So I received an allotment of Mylites 2, fullbacks, and microchamber paper that I ordered. I was wondering two things, because some of this stuff is new to me, since I just got back into comics earlier this year....

 

1. Is microchamber paper needed with more modern Marvel books? They're obviously using different paper now, which may not be as affected by the inside cover as the older paper used in books prior to this century.

 

Use them on whatever you can afford to.

 

2. I've read/heard that mylars shouldn't be taped as your would the flaps on polybags. Does this hold for Mylites as well? I personally don't see any problem, aside from making sure the tape never catches the book cover, but I'm always aware of that.

 

Leave them open or use post-its

 

[Hobgoblin]

I personally think this is a crock for the most part. I mean I do know that pages turn yellow or brown for a reason, but I have some books from the 80's that have been completely sealed in polybags for 15 years or so, being opened only probably twice during that time frame, and they still have nice white pages.

 

It's not necessarily a crock, it's just that the number of variables which go into the preservation equation are numerous enough to where you can concentrate on just a few and find trends which support a hypothesis like the one you offered above. I think the LoC recommendations are intended to be best practices intended to work across a variety of paper types and storage environments with the intent of preserving the work for HUNDREDS of years, which is far beyond most of us can envision given our comparatively short lifespans.

 

Let's see if we can gather some of the other variables from the environment your comics were stored in:

 

• What state do you live in?
• Where were your comics stored since the 80s?
• Since the 80s, how often have you opened them from their bags?

 

1. Midwest (Kansas/Oklahoma)

2. In polybags/boards, in short boxes in a closet.

3. Possibly twice, 3-4 times max.

[Arty]

I don't know if taping down the flap of the mylar/mylite would be enough to TOTALLY prevent these harmful gases from escaping.

 

I don't know either, but the LoC indicates that it is. The tests someone linked to in another thread showed a LoC graph of paper stored with all 4 sides sealed, with 2 sides sealed, and with no sides sealed. 4 sides sealed and 2 sides sealed yielded similar results, whereas no sides sealed led to the least degradation in "advanced aging" tests, whatever that means (maybe they stick it in a microwave? )

 

It is accelerated aging test at 90°C and 50% RH (That means paper is basically baked in owen - water boils in 100°C)

 

Anyway... paper sheets encapsulated along with an alkaline paper lasted longer than any paper without it, no matter was it sealed or left totally open. Link to tests Graph

In addition accelerated aging tests doesn't take oxygen exposure into account at all (damage from oxygen takes years to develop)

When we are talking about long term storage I believe oxygen exposure is far more dangerous than negative effects from encapsulation.

So you should seal your comics but only if you use buffered backing boards.

 

 

Btw it took a minimum of ten days for paper to become brittle in accelerated aging tests. That also means damage from short-time heat pressing is nonsense.

[blowout]

Then again, I don't necessarily like the idea behind leaving the books open to air.

 

What do you think about the Library of Congress's research posted on their web site, as well as their recommendations if you use their "ask a librarian" feature on the site to ask questions about this topic, that keeping paper document like comics completely sealed is more harmful than keeping them open to air on 3 or 4 sides? The reason they give is that sealing them in leaves them to "stew in their own juices," i.e. the acid naturally released from wood-pulp products further degrades the book if those acids are inhibited from flowing out into the open air.

.

 

Taping a mylite flap shut doesn't make them completely air tight.

Air will do much more damage in the long term than the acid in the paper will, so I figure keeping as much air as possible away from the book is the best solution.