Two simple questions about comic storage .........

[Hobgoblin]

Then again, I don't necessarily like the idea behind leaving the books open to air.

 

What do you think about the Library of Congress's research posted on their web site, as well as their recommendations if you use their "ask a librarian" feature on the site to ask questions about this topic, that keeping paper document like comics completely sealed is more harmful than keeping them open to air on 3 or 4 sides? The reason they give is that sealing them in leaves them to "stew in their own juices," i.e. the acid naturally released from wood-pulp products further degrades the book if those acids are inhibited from flowing out into the open air.

.

 

Taping a mylite flap shut doesn't make them completely air tight.

Air will do much more damage in the long term than the acid in the paper will, so I figure keeping as much air as possible away from the book is the best solution.

 

Very true, I think. I believe that if you take the right precautions, semi-sealing a book in a polybag or mylite is better than not sealing the book away. If you can keep 70-80% of the air out of the books container, you're better off. I would also think that in case something like "stewing" can occur, the small amount of air getting into a taped back is sufficient enough to keep that from occuring. Plus, I thought that's what microchamber paper was for

[Norrin_Radd]

Then again, I don't necessarily like the idea behind leaving the books open to air.

 

What do you think about the Library of Congress's research posted on their web site, as well as their recommendations if you use their "ask a librarian" feature on the site to ask questions about this topic, that keeping paper document like comics completely sealed is more harmful than keeping them open to air on 3 or 4 sides? The reason they give is that sealing them in leaves them to "stew in their own juices," i.e. the acid naturally released from wood-pulp products further degrades the book if those acids are inhibited from flowing out into the open air.

.

 

Taping a mylite flap shut doesn't make them completely air tight.

Air will do much more damage in the long term than the acid in the paper will, so I figure keeping as much air as possible away from the book is the best solution.

 

Very true, I think. I believe that if you take the right precautions, semi-sealing a book in a polybag or mylite is better than not sealing the book away. If you can keep 70-80% of the air out of the books container, you're better off. I would also think that in case something like "stewing" can occur, the small amount of air getting into a taped back is sufficient enough to keep that from occuring. Plus, I thought that's what microchamber paper was for

 

If keeping air from comics is so important, why don't collectors seal them? We have the technology.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

1. Midwest (Kansas/Oklahoma)

2. In polybags/boards, in short boxes in a closet.

3. Possibly twice, 3-4 times max.

 

I searched around for what the relative humidity is like in Kansas, and it sounds as if it's rather low in the summer. Does that sound accurate?

 

Assuming that the closet you kept the comics in was inside your house, and you keep your house temperature-controlled like most Americans do, your comics were in an extremely good environment with a low chance of acidic release. If we take my state of Virginia as an example, it's around 70% humidity in the summer and 30% in the winter. Big variance there and a much less ideal environment than what Kansas sounds like.

[fantastic_four]

When we are talking about long term storage I believe oxygen exposure is far more dangerous than negative effects from encapsulation.

 

Can you bring that point up to the "ask a librarian" feature on the LoC web site and see how they respond? I brought up points extremely similar to the ones you brought up with them, and their advice was as I stated earlier--sealing wood-pulp paper on all four sides is worse than leaving it open.

 

Believe me, I've always thought as you do; I double-bag Mylite2s into Mylite 4-mil bags to achieve complete enclosure. I'm still not convinced what the LoC is saying is accurate, but there's no real point in debating it amongst ourselves since we're not conservators. Until someone presents reasons why the LoC is wrong, I've gotta think they know more than the rest of us.

[fantastic_four]

Taping a mylite flap shut doesn't make them completely air tight.

 

Yea, I know. Keeping two sides completely open isn't airtight either, yet the LoC research indicates 2 sides sealed isn't significantly different from 4 sides sealed.

 

 

Air will do much more damage in the long term than the acid in the paper will, so I figure keeping as much air as possible away from the book is the best solution.

 

This commonly-held opinion is what led me to ask the LoC the question I did. They explicitly stated that you're incorrect. Can you perhaps ask them yourself and bring up your points of debate? None of us really know anyway.

[Hobgoblin]

1. Midwest (Kansas/Oklahoma)

2. In polybags/boards, in short boxes in a closet.

3. Possibly twice, 3-4 times max.

 

I searched around for what the relative humidity is like in Kansas, and it sounds as if it's rather low in the summer. Does that sound accurate?

 

Assuming that the closet you kept the comics in was inside your house, and you keep your house temperature-controlled like most Americans do, your comics were in an extremely good environment with a low chance of acidic release. If we take my state of Virginia as an example, it's around 70% humidity in the summer and 30% in the winter. Big variance there and a much less ideal environment than what Kansas sounds like.

 

I've been in Oklahoma for a while now. Humidity here is much higher than in Kansas, but I've never had a problem with it. My books are always in bags, taped shut, placed in a short box, and stacked in the closet. Very little air is going to get to them.

[Hobgoblin]

Taping a mylite flap shut doesn't make them completely air tight.

 

Yea, I know. Keeping two sides completely open isn't airtight either, yet the LoC research indicates 2 sides sealed isn't significantly different from 4 sides sealed.

 

 

Air will do much more damage in the long term than the acid in the paper will, so I figure keeping as much air as possible away from the book is the best solution.

 

This commonly-held opinion is what led me to ask the LoC the question I did. They explicitly stated that you're incorrect. Can you perhaps ask them yourself and bring up your points of debate? None of us really know anyway.

 

HOnestly, I believe you need a good mixture of the two. Without any air at all reaching comics, I can see how acid in the paper may be a problem, if you are not using microchamber paper. Then again, of course you don't want your books just laying aorund in the open air. Somewhere in between I believe is the perfect fit. Sealed to some extent, but allowing for slight breathing. If I'm wrong, and my X-Men 13, Avenger 57, and ASM 50 all start getting funky from the acid, I'll let you know.

[fantastic_four]

HOnestly, I believe you need a good mixture of the two. Without any air at all reaching comics, I can see how acid in the paper may be a problem, if you are not using microchamber paper. Then again, of course you don't want your books just laying aorund in the open air. Somewhere in between I believe is the perfect fit. Sealed to some extent, but allowing for slight breathing. If I'm wrong, and my X-Men 13, Avenger 57, and ASM 50 all start getting funky from the acid, I'll let you know.

 

Takes years or decades for it to happen, so I won't hold my breath waiting for your feedback...

 

I keep referencing the feedback the LoC gave me on this topic...below is a link to the thread I'm referring to. The recommendation they give in the long quote I posted from them is to sandwich paper between two sheets of something like Mylar (Melinex), and as Arty said, to use an acidic buffering agent such as a board or microchamber paper.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=comicgen&Number=294618

 

No comics storage solution on the market today complies with this recommendation! That's what blew my mind when I first read it.

[r100comics]

Weren't the Edgar Church books that were best preserved after 30 years or more, the ones that were placed in brown envelopes at the bottom of the pile ? This was a virtually air free (sealed) environment, and as the paper was not allowed to oxidate it remained fresh, white and supple. This seems irrespective of any acid reaction in the inks and paper.

[Hobgoblin]

Weren't the Edgar Church books that were best preserved after 30 years or more, the ones that were placed in brown envelopes at the bottom of the pile ? This was a virtually air free (sealed) environment, and as the paper was not allowed to oxidate it remained fresh, white and supple. This seems irrespective of any acid reaction in the inks and paper.

 

Envelopes would not be air-free environments. Air permeates through most forms of paper, even polybags.

[r100comics]

Bear in mind these books were not just in envelopes, but compressed at the bottom of an 8 foot stack of comics. I don't see much air permeating in or out of those puppies.

[fantastic_four]

Weren't the Edgar Church books that were best preserved after 30 years or more, the ones that were placed in brown envelopes at the bottom of the pile ?

 

I have no idea; I've never heard that any of his comics were stored in brown envelopes that I can recall. Where'd you hear that? Was it somewhere in Rozanski's recent retelling of his discovery of the collection? I read that, along with Matt Nelson's account on his web site, and I don't recall hearing that, which doesn't mean that I didn't glance over it.

 

Given that a HUGE number of the Church books have white pages, I'm not sure there's evidence that envelopes played any factor even if some of the books were stored in them.

[Arty]

They were not stored in envelopes.

Anyway oldest books from bottom of the stacks have best PQ.

[Hobgoblin]

Bear in mind these books were not just in envelopes, but compressed at the bottom of an 8 foot stack of comics. I don't see much air permeating in or out of those puppies.

 

Don't be so sure. Don't make me open up my Momentum, Heat, & Mass Transfer textbooks

[Cody_Starbuck]

I'm bored and decided to read this thread. Now I am feeling totally paranoid about my collection, as I like in nice, sunny, humid Florida.

 

Thanks guys!

[Norrin_Radd]

Now I am feeling totally paranoid about my collection, as I like in nice, sunny, humid Florida.

 

You don't see any pedigrees from the tropical regions... They all seem to come from cold climates (Northwest, New England, Canada)...

 

Not a good sign.

[Hobgoblin]

I'm bored and decided to read this thread. Now I am feeling totally paranoid about my collection, as I like in nice, sunny, humid Florida.

 

Thanks guys!

 

Hey, I'm in Oklahoma and it's not always dry here. Can be pretty humid, but nothing has ever happened to my collection due to humidity.

[Cody_Starbuck]

It is nothing for it to get to 60 or 70 percent humidity here in the Jacksonville area. My books are all in mylar and boxed, sitting in a closet of an air conditioned apartment, but it still worries me.

 

I swear that, in the dead of the night, I can here them decaying.

[fantastic_four]

It is nothing for it to get to 60 or 70 percent humidity here in the Jacksonville area.

 

Sounds like Virginia, which is why I bought a dehumidifier