AVENGERS #185

[Marty Mann]

Picked this up a few years back in a group of MARVEL COMICS.

Do you think there will be an increased interest in this issue?

 

 

mm

[Jeffro.]

Why? What am I missing here?

[greggy]

No

[vaillant]

Not an increased interest, because most collectors do not care about the actual quality of the stories, but this story arc has been one of the best from that period, it‘s just great. Byrne’s art is very detailed and done with a lot of care too.

[paperheart]

i could see this going for cover price if you find the right buyer

[Crimebuster]

Unfortunately, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's continuity is so complex and messed up that I don't see this issue really gaining any traction regardless of how popular they might end up getting from Avengers 2. This storyline did used to command a small premium over the issues around it due to Byrne's art, but I'm not sure that's the case any longer.

 

But even though it's a good story, I don't see any real monetary potential. If anything about their origin has potential - which I doubt, given what a mess it is - it would probably be this issue, where we finally learn they are the children of Magneto:

 

[vaillant]

But it was always assumed they were the children of Magneto: that story just made them doubt that, but it was all solved in the end.

It‘s the story as a whole that is very poignant, and worth having, not the mere "facts" which one may learn from it.

 

Byrne art is great here (also thanks to the inker) but it’s Michelinie writing which makes it stand out as well. The issues before, and the ones slightly aftewards are excellent, but here the pace, the atmosphere, the whole involvement of the characters, is just great.

 

It‘s embarassing to see how often "collectors" do not even know how to begin to appreciate stories.

[Marty Mann]

But it was always assumed they were the children of Magneto: that story just made them doubt that, but it was all solved in the end.

It‘s the story as a whole that is very poignant, and worth having, not the mere "facts" which one may learn from it.

 

Byrne art is great here (also thanks to the inker) but it’s Michelinie writing which makes it stand out as well. The issues before, and the ones slightly aftewards are excellent, but here the pace, the atmosphere, the whole involvement of the characters, is just great.

 

It‘s embarassing to see how often "collectors" do not even know how to begin to appreciate stories.

 

mm

 

[Logan510]

But it was always assumed they were the children of Magneto: that story just made them doubt that, but it was all solved in the end.

It‘s the story as a whole that is very poignant, and worth having, not the mere "facts" which one may learn from it.

 

Byrne art is great here (also thanks to the inker) but it’s Michelinie writing which makes it stand out as well. The issues before, and the ones slightly aftewards are excellent, but here the pace, the atmosphere, the whole involvement of the characters, is just great.

 

It‘s embarassing to see how often "collectors" do not even know how to begin to appreciate stories.

 

It was always assumed when? Before or after Avengers 185?

[vaillant]

This page alone is priceless… "The nights of Wundagore".

 

And to be precise, Byrne art is also in the surrounding issues, so there must be a reason for which these particular three ones struck a chord with readers, considered the surrounding ones are excellent as well (the Crusher Creel storyline is great, so much to think about when considering the nature of evil in men’s heart).

 

[vaillant]

It was always assumed when? Before or after Avengers 185?

 

Isn’t it implicitly suggested since X-Men #4 or at least early X-Men?

I seem to recall Magneto calls them "children", I think it wasn’t explicitly stated but that the idea dates back to Lee and Kirby initial conception.

 

Surely before that storyline, as I remember thinking about it as a kid, before reading that story.

[Logan510]

It was always assumed when? Before or after Avengers 185?

 

Isn’t it implicitly suggested since X-Men #4 or at least early X-Men?

I seem to recall Magneto calls them "children", I think it wasn’t explicitly stated but that the idea dates back to Lee and Kirby initial conception.

 

Surely before that storyline, as I remember thinking about it as a kid, before reading that story.

 

IIRC this was the first time it had been implied directly in the comics. According to Byrne they were never supposed to come out and actually reveal it..but obviously things change and they did later on. If you look in the past to see the connection it's probably trough the lens of already knowing. If Magneto actually knew they were his kids, he treated them pretty poorly. At the time the Golden Age Whizzer was thought to be their father.

[the blob]

It has been a while, but I do remember issues from that story line selling pretty well on ebay, but then again, I did well with the byrne avengers books in general. Not big money, but $3-$5 for a mid-grade copy is more or less guide. Of course, this was before the economy collapsed.

[JollyComics]

This page alone is priceless… "The nights of Wundagore".

 

And to be precise, Byrne art is also in the surrounding issues, so there must be a reason for which these particular three ones struck a chord with readers, considered the surrounding ones are excellent as well (the Crusher Creel storyline is great, so much to think about when considering the nature of evil in men’s heart).

 

 

Moo!

[Crimebuster]

In the 1970's, it was first revealed that Wanda and Pietro were the children of the golden age Whizzer and Miss America. This resulted in Whizzer showing up as their father in a number of Avengers issues.

 

This storyline in Avengers #182-187 retconned that to claim that they were actually the children of Django Maximoff, a gypsy.

 

The Vision and Scarlet Witch limited series retconned that to claim that they were actually the children of Magneto, and that he abandoned them in a fit of despair after his beloved wife died in childbirth. Django Maximoff then adopted them.

 

So over the period of a few years, they had three different origins, with three different sets of parents. I don't know whether fans previously assumed that they were the children of Magneto, but by the time the Vision and Scarlet Witch storyline came out, it pretty much had to be explicitly stated, because it had been explicitly stated twice previously that they were not.

[aardvark88]

Well that Michelinie 3 issue origin of Wanda and Pietro story arc was a revelation for me when I first read it. Also loved Byrne's Dark-Scarlet Witch which pre-dated Dark Phoenix in X-men by about 1 year.