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Avengers 118 cover in Heritage….

Started by glenbru,

61 posts in this topic

Nexus

Nexus

Posted
Posted
For sellers who like using outlier auction results as comps for their inventory, this will be a no-lose situation, thanks to the vellum. If this auction is perceived to have underperformed...well, of course, it was vellum's fault. If it does well, or even exceeds expectations, then imagine how much better it would have done if it wasn't for the vellum!

 

In terms of the overall AVENGERS market, I'm of the same view as ironmandrd.

 

Well what are the expectations for it? Avengers especially has been crazy these last few auctions. Don't know what to expect anymore.

 

I don't know what to expect anymore, either, so I won't guess (although I would be surprised if this finished above $90K, as you mentioned earlier). All I'm predicting is the eventual spin.

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DocR

DocR

Posted
Posted
For sellers who like using outlier auction results as comps for their inventory, this will be a no-lose situation, thanks to the vellum. If this auction is perceived to have underperformed...well, of course, it was vellum's fault. If it does well, or even exceeds expectations, then imagine how much better it would have done if it wasn't for the vellum!

 

In terms of the overall AVENGERS market, I'm of the same view as ironmandrd.

 

Well what are the expectations for it? Avengers especially has been crazy these last few auctions. Don't know what to expect anymore.

 

I don't know what to expect anymore, either, so I won't guess (although I would be surprised if this finished above $90K, as you mentioned earlier). All I'm predicting is the eventual spin.

 

Fair enough, Appreciate the honest answer.

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glenbru

glenbru

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Does this mean the pencils are also out there, separately? Or, at least, at one point the pencils also existed?

 

 

I would assume that the pencils exist separately. The good news, at least on this cover, is that the penciller and inker are one and the same. So you are getting the entire artist's vision here…with just the inks. IMO that shouldn't change the value. If the penciller and inker were two different artists, it might.

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Ironmandrd

Ironmandrd

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Without fully understanding all the cons (and maybe precisely because of that), I've never actively pursued/bid on a vellum cover and have never owned a vellum cover. I didn't realize though (if I reading the prior postings correctly), that the vellum does not have the pencils? I thought that vellum was just a different (not as good) medium and the inks were done over the pencils and the pencils on the vellum itself.

 

So another vellum-related reason why the #118 cover will likely take a hit. And I agree with Felix--underbidding will be vellum's fault, strong bidding will be Avengers bump--so either way those who want to argue much higher Avengers prices will either have another high Avengers data point (largely ignoring the historic context bump of this particular cover) or an explanation of why the #118 didn't match or come close to the Av #72.

 

We still only have two variant Avengers data points. And the difficulty is that we are not just talking about a bump, we are talking about a HUGE bump. I don't know of a single Avengers collector who predicted the Av #72 cover anywhere close to the ballpark in the vicinity of the neighborhood of $90k.

 

I would like to see several more 70s Avengers cover and splash auction sales before acknowledging that there may something to this new much higher pricing (especially since I know the circumstances leading to the #81 pricing and would think that over the next several months the rationale of the bidders on the Av #72 cover will become privately known as well). And bumps because of movies (if that is what this is) are not always sustainable over time. I've picked up one cover three years and two owners after it was bought at the height of movie hype and paid only about 65% what the person paid who originally bought it paid at the top of the hype.

 

And I note the market for 80s-90s Avengers has not taken a similar large step up.

 

[by the way, full disclosure in case anyone doesn't realize it--I own a number of Avengers covers, splashes and interior pages].

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DJRome

DJRome

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Oh my God, they erased it!

 

Ok, full disclosure: I saw this piece a couple of months ago, before they cleaned the velum. Right below Dormammu's right foot there were the names "Wilson + Romita" written in JR's handwriting. It looks like it was removed! I'll have to post that old pic. Someone at Heritage is being a naughty boy.

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glenbru

glenbru

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(especially since I know the circumstances leading to the #81 pricing and would think that over the next several months the rationale of the bidders on the Av #72 cover will become privately known as well)

 

Can you relate in general terms, without naming names, the circumstances of the 81 sale? I'm unaware of the circumstances.

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Ironmandrd

Ironmandrd

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(especially since I know the circumstances leading to the #81 pricing and would think that over the next several months the rationale of the bidders on the Av #72 cover will become privately known as well)

 

Can you relate in general terms, without naming names, the circumstances of the 81 sale? I'm unaware of the circumstances.

 

Sorry wasn't trying to be overly vague or mysterious--I'd rather not go into too much detail, but by circumstances I just mean that I know the bidding rationale and characteristics of the buyer (as well as another high underbidder, but not THE underbidder) and those facts all line up to be unique and therefore aberrational. There was no Avengers bump, no movie bump, etc. So I'm interested to hopefully learn at some point the bidding rationale around the Av #72 cover bidding so I can see how that figures into the bigger picture.

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glenbru

glenbru

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Without fully understanding all the cons (and maybe precisely because of that), I've never actively pursued/bid on a vellum cover and have never owned a vellum cover. I didn't realize though (if I reading the prior postings correctly), that the vellum does not have the pencils? I thought that vellum was just a different (not as good) medium and the inks were done over the pencils and the pencils on the vellum itself.

 

 

Generally speaking the vellum acts as a tracing paper that's placed over the pencils as the inking is rendered separately on the vellum sheet. There are exceptions, but the general consensus is that you are buying just the published inks on a vellum cover.

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glenbru

glenbru

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Here is one from Heritage:

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-romita-sr-the-amazing-spider-man-201-cover-pencils-original-art-marvel-1980-spider-man-joined-forces-with-the-pu-2-items-/a/817-6445.s

 

another:

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-romita-sr-original-front-and-back-cover-art-for-marvel-special-edition-1-marvel-1975-spidey-faces-off-against/a/805-6583.s

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Ironmandrd

Ironmandrd

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Thanks. I did a quick search on HA but my "Romita pencils" title search for some reason didn't yield either one of those results.

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