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More eBay changes, now on returns

Started by skypinkblu,

79 posts in this topic

loadstone

loadstone

Posted
Posted
Let me explain to you how this can be exploited.

 

Okay... say I am participating in a straight auction for say Amazing Spider-man 50. I see that 24 people are watching a particular issue for listed at a BIN for $1000. I see another copy in the same grade that is on auction. So what I do is participate in the auction. I wait until there is a half hour until the auction closes. With a half an hour remaining I hit the BIN. I then participate in the auction anyway. I place a final bid in that is cheaper than the BIN for the copy I just bought.

 

Even if I am the winning bidder, I got the book for less than the BIN and I have enough time to cancel the BIN purchase as an hour has not elapsed.

 

yeah, sounds like a great plan. Let the dumping begin.

 

Quick question, since this happened to me recently: How is this different from a buyer currently making a bunch of offers on the same exact book and only paying for the best accepted offer or first accepted offer?

 

Because in this case, eBay allows it to happen within an hour without consequence. I believe that the word used was 'cancellation' not a NPB. The buyer may cancel their purchase.

 

Potential buyers playing the field won't be the only ones pulling that technique. I can see a seller's angle here as that might actually work out in the Auction seller's favor.

 

If a copy of ASM #50 BIN is listed for $1000 and another seller is auctioning another ASM #50 in the same grade, it is actually more to the the auctioning seller's advantage that the other book goes away within an hour of his auction ending. The reason being that if the $1000 price was the artificial upper limit this book could go for, now that it has sold and thus been removed from a buying option (for the time being) any other potential buyers are left with only one option. this may cause the bidding for that auction to go higher than it would have if the $1000 book was still listed. And for any unsavvy buyers looking at past ebay sales within the hour would also see that book having been sold at the $1000 price possibly inducing them to bid more aggressively on the auction. The auction seller would simply need to use a disposable shill account to click BIN on that ASM# 50 and then click cancellation within a minute of his auction ending. It'll likely take more than an hour for that other seller to realize the cancellation, re-list, in time for any of the potential buyers to notice and cancel out of the auction sale if it went over $1000 and if it went for less than $1000 it's likely it went for more than it otherwise would have if the BIN $1000 was still listed.

 

Either way, it's going to really screw up GPA. I had this scenario happen to me with a copy of ASM #121 listed. I had it listed pretty high as I really wasn't ready to part with it but would for a high enough number. A buyer bought it just before (day or week) another auction for a similarly graded copy was ended. That buyer never paid and I let him out of the deal as I was fine holding on to it for a bit longer but when I looked into it, I saw the coincidence and how close to my price the auction copy went for. Furthermore, because I waited a few days to allow the seller to respond to my messages before re-listing, it kept my copy off the market longer and allowed others to be sold for justifiably higher prices in the meantime. Mine eventually did sell :( but this manipulation exposed a huge flaw in GPA and the new ebay system which is apparently already being exploited.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
Let me explain to you how this can be exploited.

 

Okay... say I am participating in a straight auction for say Amazing Spider-man 50. I see that 24 people are watching a particular issue for listed at a BIN for $1000. I see another copy in the same grade that is on auction. So what I do is participate in the auction. I wait until there is a half hour until the auction closes. With a half an hour remaining I hit the BIN. I then participate in the auction anyway. I place a final bid in that is cheaper than the BIN for the copy I just bought.

 

Even if I am the winning bidder, I got the book for less than the BIN and I have enough time to cancel the BIN purchase as an hour has not elapsed.

 

yeah, sounds like a great plan. Let the dumping begin.

 

Quick question, since this happened to me recently: How is this different from a buyer currently making a bunch of offers on the same exact book and only paying for the best accepted offer or first accepted offer?

 

Because in this case, eBay allows it to happen within an hour without consequence. I believe that the word used was 'cancellation' not a NPB. The buyer may cancel their purchase.

 

Potential buyers playing the field won't be the only ones pulling that technique. I can see a seller's angle here as that might actually work out in the Auction seller's favor.

 

If a copy of ASM #50 BIN is listed for $1000 and another seller is auctioning another ASM #50 in the same grade, it is actually more to the the auctioning seller's advantage that the other book goes away within an hour of his auction ending. The reason being that if the $1000 price was the artificial upper limit this book could go for, now that it has sold and thus been removed from a buying option (for the time being) any other potential buyers are left with only one option. this may cause the bidding for that auction to go higher than it would have if the $1000 book was still listed. And for any unsavvy buyers looking at past ebay sales within the hour would also see that book having been sold at the $1000 price possibly inducing them to bid more aggressively on the auction. The auction seller would simply need to use a disposable shill account to click BIN on that ASM# 50 and then click cancellation within a minute of his auction ending. It'll likely take more than an hour for that other seller to realize the cancellation, re-list, in time for any of the potential buyers to notice and cancel out of the auction sale if it went over $1000 and if it went for less than $1000 it's likely it went for more than it otherwise would have if the BIN $1000 was still listed.

 

Either way, it's going to really screw up GPA. I had this scenario happen to me with a copy of ASM #121 listed. I had it listed pretty high as I really wasn't ready to part with it but would for a high enough number. A buyer bought it just before (day or week) another auction for a similarly graded copy was ended. That buyer never paid and I let him out of the deal as I was fine holding on to it for a bit longer but when I looked into it, I saw the coincidence and how close to my price the auction copy went for. Furthermore, because I waited a few days to allow the seller to respond to my messages before re-listing, it kept my copy off the market longer and allowed others to be sold for justifiably higher prices in the meantime. Mine eventually did sell :( but this manipulation exposed a huge flaw in GPA and the new ebay system which is apparently already being exploited.

 

Excellent point and one that I never considered. It works both ways.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Wow they are REALLY going heavy in favor of buyers. I would not want to be a eBay seller starting in October :(

 

This has got to be a shift in what their target market must be. I'm thinking Amazon's structure has some pretty big influence on the changes we are seeing.

 

Returns on Amazon are practically seamless. My wife and I have Prime, and every now and again, we've got to do a return, and it's pretty much automated from what I have seen.

 

Granted, all of the Prime merchandise are from larger retailers that can handle automated returns, I think Ebay is going to try forcing that concept on smaller guys, which I think sucks.

 

I also think it's aimed at people who sell brand new retail widgets and not used things like comics, so casual sellers are just ignored in their grand plans.

 

eBay has seen the success of Amazon, and since about 2006, these have been their long term business goals. Buyers want to be able to return things they don't like. This has been the #1 concern for buyers forever.

 

The problem is that this business model only works with brand new widgets, as you said. It does not work, and cannot work, with collectibles, which are all, by their nature, unique.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
...there is really no reason to offer any returns at all.

Whether you like it or not if you're an eBay seller you offer returns on anything you sell.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

Absolutely false and I have mentioned it before and will mention it again, I have instances where eBay supported me and told the buyer that they were not permitted to return the item. The items in question where returns were not permitted included CD's that were sealed, Lego Instructions and other items that could easily be copied by the user seeking a return.

 

I guarantee you that there are NO returns on this item. These are custom designed instructions in LDraw/pdf format.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEGO-Modular-Coffee-Shop-Library-INSTRUCTIONS-ONLY-10182-10185-10232-10243-/141358517613?pt=Building_Toys_US&hash=item20e99fcd6d

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jaybuck43

jaybuck43

Posted
Posted

Event tickets are also non-returnable. eBay will cover you if you get burned or if the tickets come in and they are for a different event (I..e. different date then described etc) but you cannot return them.

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darkstar

darkstar

Posted
Posted
...there is really no reason to offer any returns at all.

Whether you like it or not if you're an eBay seller you offer returns on anything you sell.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

I currently offer a 14 day return policy because its mandated that I do so to keep my Top Rated Seller discount.

 

When the holiday season rolls around and eBay mandates that all Top Rated Sellers participate in extended holiday returns policy in order to maintain their discount I will no longer be a Top Rated Seller. I'm not going to allow a buyer who purchases a book from me in November to decide until the end of January if they actually want to keep it.

 

As such I really have no reason to offer advertised returns anymore at all. Whether eBay enforces returns based on item-not-as-described cases is irrelevant. The point here is that their new policy isn't making it easier on the buyers or sellers to handle returns, its doing nothing more than discouraging sellers from offering returns at all.

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Chip Cataldo

Chip Cataldo

Posted
Posted
I guarantee you that there are NO returns on this item. These are custom designed instructions in LDraw/pdf format.

I'd like to make a bet with you that I can purchase that item and after receiving it return it to you for a full refund. Whether through eBay or Paypal's claim process, you'll be forced to take it back and refund my money. Yes, I know it's an electronic file. :)

 

Peace,

 

Chip

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AGGIEZ

AGGIEZ

Posted
Posted
I won't be selling much on eBay after October. Guess I need to figure out CLINK now...

 

Or sell here… make some auctions too. (thumbs u

 

As option #1 I do sell here, but generally throw the ones that don't sell on to eBay at BIN prices that I'm comfortable with. I've had some success thinning out my collection this way but will likely remove them all in the next month or so. I've had a lot fewer issues dealing with boardies than I have with eBay buyers.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
I guarantee you that there are NO returns on this item. These are custom designed instructions in LDraw/pdf format.

I'd like to make a bet with you that I can purchase that item and after receiving it return it to you for a full refund. Whether through eBay or Paypal's claim process, you'll be forced to take it back and refund my money. Yes, I know it's an electronic file. :)

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

It has been beyond an aggravating day here cleaning up the flooding that came with the rain and I just woke up so I am going to try to be as polite as possible here. Chip, you are wrong. You can make your claim, you can seek a return, then I am free to call up paypal and dispute your claim and get the case closed in my favor.

 

In the case of a rare sealed CD, the buyer said he opened it, but didn't like it and wanted to return. I called up paypal and presented my case. Buyer did not get the return.

 

In the case of Lego instructions. I clearly marked the listing as "Instructions only not bricks included" several times. It was highlighted and made bigger than all the text. I do not put a wall of text into my listings as anyone who has seen them can attest to. The person purchased the instructions and waited a few days after receiving them and wanted to keep them at first and get their money back. Then they wanted to return them. I called up paypal and they agreed. They looked at the listing and would not give into buyers' remorse. Whenever eBay allows a buyer to make a decision I do not like, I call paypal. eBay controls the listings paypal controls the money.

 

And as Jay said, concert tickets are not returnable. Before I started using Stubhub, I had someone buy tickets and then try to return them. A popular scam is to try and buy downloadable tickets, photocopy them and then resell them again. I am very well aware of this as someone I know (that I do not talk to anymore did this). All you have to do is get to the game or the show before the other person and never report to your seat. I refused to take back tickets that I sold on eBay. If Ticketmaster or Live Nation do not have to take them back then why should I? Again, eBay agreed. I moved over to Stubhub for that anyway.

 

Retail guidelines only go so far. And even in retail, they will refuse certain returns especially if they do not want that particular customers' business again. I worked retail for several years as well. I saw certain company policy that dictated when not to take a return no matter what. All returns, all the time is not always the case.

 

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

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MORE updates. I'm not sure if these things are mandated, or still things you can chose. It's beginning to sound like global shipping and paid for returns are being mandated. I've always paid for return shipping anyway in the few instances where there was a problem, but I don't do global shipping unless it's someone I know from here. The only time I ever had lost packages were with global shipping, so I prefer not do (on eBay)

 

Just thought I'd share and see if there were other opinions.

 

 

Updates to the eBay User Agreement, User Privacy Notice, and Money Back Guarantee

 

Dear Sharon,

 

We are writing to let you know about updates to the eBay User Agreement, User Privacy Notice (formerly known as Privacy Policy), and Money Back Guarantee (formerly known as Buyer Protection Policy). The updated User Agreement, User Privacy Notice, and Money Back Guarantee were posted on www.ebay.com on August 12, 2014.

 

The updated User Agreement is effective September 15, 2014, or upon acceptance for users who accept it via electronic click-through prior to September 15, 2014. The User Privacy Notice and Money Back Guarantee are effective immediately for new users and on September 15, 2014, for current users.

 

eBay User Agreement

 

Key updates to the eBay User Agreement:

 

Using eBay. Updates were made to clarify that users shall not use eBay's or other users' content without permission. This section has also been updated to indicate steps eBay may take to address abuse of its services and to make it clear that eBay may terminate or refuse service to anyone at its sole discretion.

 

Listing Conditions. This section has been updated to reflect that content that violates our policies may be deleted at our discretion.

 

Purchase Conditions. This section has been updated to make it clear that when you purchase an item on an eBay site other than eBay.com, you are subject to the User Agreement of that other site with respect to that purchase.

 

Translation. We augmented this section to indicate that, when automated translation tools are available, you direct us to use them to translate your listings into local languages and to provide you with access to translations of other users' listings.

 

Recording Calls. eBay may monitor or record telephone conversations with eBay or its agents for quality control and training purposes or for its own protection.

 

Returns. We updated this section to clarify that if eBay hassle-free returns are applied to your listings, you authorize eBay to remove the refund amount from your PayPal account, place the amount on your invoice, and/or charge your payment method on file. By the 2015 holiday season, all eligible domestic returns on eBay will be eBay hassle-free returns and sellers may not remove hassle-free return settings from their listings. We updated this section also to reflect this future change.

 

Global Shipping Program. We updated this section to underscore that for eligible listings for which you have not previously specified an international shipping option, buyers from select countries will be shown an International Priority Shipping option with end-to-end international tracking plus an estimate of associated import charges which will be confirmed for and paid by your buyer at checkout. If a buyer from one of the select countries purchases your eligible item, you simply ship the item to a US shipping center. Once accepted at the US shipping center, a global shipping provider handles the international shipping, customs clearance, and delivery of the item to your international buyer. Sellers are not responsible for any loss or damage during the international leg of the shipment; buyers take on compliance responsibility for the export and import shipment.

 

Money Back Guarantee. We updated this section to reflect changes in the Money Back Guarantee, specifically that sellers are responsible for return shipping costs if an item is not as described and that, if an eBay-generated return shipping label is used for return shipping on items not as described, we place the return shipping label cost on the seller's invoice.

 

Agreement to Arbitrate. With limited exception, all issues with respect to disputes between you and eBay will continue to be decided by binding arbitration on an individual, non-class, non-representative basis, unless you have opted out under the terms of the Agreement to Arbitrate. Updates made to the Agreement to Arbitrate include the following:

 

You may assert claims in small claims court, if your claims qualify, so long as the matter remains in such court and advances only on an individual, non-class, non-representative basis.

The arbitrator will decide all issues except issues regarding whether a dispute is subject to arbitration, the scope or enforceability of the Agreement to Arbitrate, or the interpretation of Section 1 of the Agreement to Arbitrate, which will all be issues a court, not the arbitrator, will decide.

In the interest of ensuring that you and eBay may provide each other an opportunity to work out any disputes between us before resorting to arbitration, you and eBay must send each other a Notice of Dispute that explains the nature of the dispute before initiating arbitration. If the dispute is not resolved within 30 days of sending the notice, arbitration may then be initiated.

 

 

eBay User Privacy Notice

 

Key updates to the eBay User Privacy Notice:

Name Change. We updated the eBay Privacy Policy to be more user-friendly and easier to read, starting with its name. Going forward, it will be called the User Privacy Notice. This name change does not reduce or change any of our commitments or responsibilities under the former Privacy Policy.

 

Organization. We organized the sections and their titles to make our practices more clear and transparent.

 

Summary Section. We added a summary section to the notice that allows you to quickly refer to key aspects of the notice and our privacy practices, and then links them directly to the more detailed sections, should you want to find out more information about an individual section or privacy practice.

 

Icons. The most visible change to the Privacy Notice is the addition of icons for each section and the corresponding privacy practices to enable quick, visual navigation.

 

 

eBay Money Back Guarantee

 

Key updates to the eBay Money Back Guarantee:

Consistent After-Sale Experience. We updated the policy to reflect that we're simplifying the after-sale experience for buyers and sellers with a new improved return process that gives buyers a more convenient and consistent way to return items—right from My eBay. Many of our sellers who use eBay hassle-free returns are paying for return shipping on faulty or not-as-described items. Starting September 15, an initial group of sellers, (and after a transition period, all remaining sellers) will be responsible for return shipping on items which are faulty or not-as-described. Many sellers are facilitating returns for faulty or not as described items, but for those sellers who choose not to facilitate a return or provide a return shipping label for a faulty or not as described item, we may refund their buyers without requiring the buyers to return the item, and in turn seek reimbursement from sellers.

 

Timelines. We updated the policy to clarify timelines for buyers and sellers when an item isn't received or isn't as described in the listing. For items that offer hassle-free returns, eBay will automatically issue a refund after the refund deadline has passed. When sellers offer extended return timeframes that are longer than the standard eBay Money Back Guarantee protection window, eligibility will be extended to protect these returns when sellers don't refund buyers in accordance with their return policy.

 

Local Pick-up or Freighted Items. We updated the policy to clarify that items damaged during pick-up or shipping, or not delivered when the buyer has arranged pick-up or freight, are not covered under the eBay Money Back Guarantee. We refer buyers to work with the freight company in such instances.

 

Appeals. We shortened the window for appeals from 45 days to 30 days after we make a decision about a transaction issue.

 

As with previous updates, other changes have been made to keep the User Agreement, User Privacy Notice, and Money Back Guarantee up-to-date with our product and service offerings. We encourage you to review the updated eBay User Agreement, User Privacy Notice, and Money Back Guarantee—they will apply to your account as of the dates noted above. If you choose not to accept the updated terms, visit this help page for further direction.

 

Thank you for being a part of the eBay Community.

 

Sincerely,

 

The eBay Team

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Chaseman210

Chaseman210

Posted
Posted
I won't be selling much on eBay after October. Guess I need to figure out CLINK now...

 

Or sell here make some auctions too. (thumbs u

 

As option #1 I do sell here, but generally throw the ones that don't sell on to eBay at BIN prices that I'm comfortable with. I've had some success thinning out my collection this way but will likely remove them all in the next month or so. I've had a lot fewer issues dealing with boardies than I have with eBay buyers.

 

Selling here is better if you're able, but I've listed books on here without ANY interest and then sold them on eBay for $100 more than my asking here. But I've had good sales here too, so I try to do a little of both.

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