What Happened to Underground Comics?

[vaillant]

Grant Morrison is a friend of Genesis P-Orridge, but I think they became friends in more recent times.

 

Kav may be right, as RAW represented an antology where a lot of these influences and works converged (but I am really not familiar with it).

[kav]

Speigelman and Mouly-they fused UG with modern art and punk

 

[vaillant]

Kav, what do you think of Maus – in all honesty, taking all the possible aspects into account (i.e. account of wartime memories, personal story, artistic value aside from themes, etc.)?

[kav]

Kav, what do you think of Maus – in all honesty, taking all the possible aspects into account (i.e. account of wartime memories, personal story, artistic value aside from themes, etc.)?

Honestly it bored the heck outta me. Over rated IMO. The story had essentially been told dozens of times in various mediums already.

[vaillant]

More than over-rated I think there is a misunderstanding around it: it always felt more as a family memories story than an account of the holocaust, to me.

I should read it, and Tezuka‘s "Sroty of the three Adolfs" at once, but if I have to choose a comic representative of the holocaust I feel it could be "Barefoot Gen", which was very appreciated by critics as well.

[Quicksilver Signs]

Another suggestion: WE3 by Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely (three issues miniseries).

 

 

This was incredible, loved it

[rjpb]

The surviving 1st and 2nd generation of underground comic creators ( Deitch, Crumb, Bagge, Clowes) that still produce work tend to do it in graphic novel or some other deluxe format. Every once in a while Fantagraphics or D&Q put out a stapled pamphlet style comic that has the look and feel of an "underground".

 

There are small press and self-published books in that spirit as well, but the lines have become blurred over the decades with the absence of the CCA, the rise of independent publishers that aren't genre bound, and even DC and Marvel putting out oddball irreverent stuff like the Strange Tales mini and Bizarro World.

 

 

[Aweandlorder]

Yup, I also dont consider Love & Rockets underground/comix. Definitely a staple in the B&W 80s boom and quality stuff.. And there are alot of books that are a continuation of that genre, most of which certainly carried over to a more mainstream level. Strangers In Paradise comes to mind (not comparing the two, just saying they have the same feel to them). One of my all time favorite reads from the 80s was Hancock/Cherkas Silent Invasion. If you never read it you shuold def get it!

[Aweandlorder]

Also Image is coming with a new title this fall called "The Humans". I think that true fans of S Clay Wilson, Last Gasp, Rip off at al would be very pleased with that book and who knows, this could be a new direction for Image and a comeback for the genre?

 

[Jimmy Linguini]

Isn't underground called Indi and self-published, now?

[Prince Namor]

There are plenty of Underground, or self-published comics out today. Maybe as many or more than ever before.

As far as 'Indie's' or whatever you'd call them, there are some out there, generally by some of the same publishers (Fantagraphics, Drawn & Quarterly, Adhouse), but many independant creators are bypassing the monthly comic format and going straight to tpb's or HC's for their work.

There are plenty of non-superhero, non-mainstream works out there.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Yup, I also dont consider Love & Rockets underground/comix. Definitely a staple in the B&W 80s boom and quality stuff.. And there are alot of books that are a continuation of that genre, most of which certainly carried over to a more mainstream level. Strangers In Paradise comes to mind (not comparing the two, just saying they have the same feel to them). One of my all time favorite reads from the 80s was Hancock/Cherkas Silent Invasion. If you never read it you shuold def get it!

 

If I said Love And Rockets was an indie, I didn't mean that. I just meant that recommended reading had led me to Indies from the 80s and 90s. I was curious what happened to them.

 

 

[dupont2005]

The counterculture movement is over.

 

There's still a handful of comics I'd consider underground. Any Johnny Ryan book. And this one

http://fukitor.blogspot.com/

[dupont2005]

Isn't underground called Indi and self-published, now?

I consider undergrounds to be a product of the hippy culture. Drugs, sex, rock & roll, war and Communism stuff. People were self publishing independent comics that weren't underground at the latter end of that. Like Wally Wood and his Cannon and Sally Forth comics. There was some crossover too, with figures from the 80's high brow art comic movement having come directly from Robert Crumb's Arcade or any number of other underground comix.

[Prince Namor]

Yup, I also dont consider Love & Rockets underground/comix. Definitely a staple in the B&W 80s boom and quality stuff.. And there are alot of books that are a continuation of that genre, most of which certainly carried over to a more mainstream level. Strangers In Paradise comes to mind (not comparing the two, just saying they have the same feel to them). One of my all time favorite reads from the 80s was Hancock/Cherkas Silent Invasion. If you never read it you shuold def get it!

 

If I said Love And Rockets was an indie, I didn't mean that. I just meant that recommended reading had led me to Indies from the 80s and 90s. I was curious what happened to them.

 

 

I always read the Comics Journal and still read their website.

Any great comic that was non-superhero or non-mainstream in almost my entire collecting life has come from hearing about it there.

They still talk about comic books and GN's you won't hear about on this forum.

[Brother J]

I sometimes hold up Jim Mahfood as someone who recalls the underground movement.

He self publishes, he's got that sex-drugs-music-politics vibe

Examples include Grrl Scouts, Stupid Comics, Felt, We Want Porn, & his mini comix

 

Was there ever a link between late underground and the no-wave or early punk scene in New York and in the US? (Before punk "bloomed" in the UK, I mean)?

RAW

 

Raw Magazine, definitely underground in my book. If for no other reason that Spiegelman was involved in the original underground comix movement. I love the large format, one of my favorite items in my collection is my copy of Raw #1. Wish I had the Maus issues.

[Reverend]

It seems that there are many definitions of "underground." And it seems that a lot of people think that any black and white comic, independently published, is automatically underground.

 

To me, underground can be construed as countercultural, perverse, political, radical, revolutionary. It's something that goes against the proverbial grain, in some way, I suppose, all the while bearing a certain aesthetic.

 

With that said, I find it difficult to regard anything that Image has published as being underground--even alternative would be a stretch. I also find it difficult to lump the masses of porn comics (e.g., Carnal, Eros) into the underground genre.

 

I believe undergrounds are still being published.

 

Someone above mentioned Fukitor. Indeed, that is a good example of what I would deem a "modern underground," seemingly inspired by the underground horror comics of old (e.g., Skull, Slow Death).

[kav]

My definition of Underground is books that were only available in head shops

[rjpb]

I'd a agree that "underground" comics by definition have some combination of the following:

 

Anti- authoritarianism

Irreverence

Sex

Drug influences and/or references

Parody and satire

Autobiography

Humor

EC influences

Mockery of its audience

Over the top violence

Art unlikely to be found in a "mainstream" comic

Profanity

Political and cultural cynicism

 

What combination makes an underground as opposed to alternative or independent or porno comic is mostly a reflection of the time period it was released - the age of clearly defined undergrounds largely considered to be from the late-sixties about 1980. Some books are still published that fit the definition, but there is probably some disagreement on what they are. For most of us that care, it's a "know it when you see it" situation.

 

 

[dupont2005]

It seems that there are many definitions of "underground." And it seems that a lot of people think that any black and white comic, independently published, is automatically underground.

 

To me, underground can be construed as countercultural, perverse, political, radical, revolutionary. It's something that goes against the proverbial grain, in some way, I suppose, all the while bearing a certain aesthetic.

 

With that said, I find it difficult to regard anything that Image has published as being underground--even alternative would be a stretch. I also find it difficult to lump the masses of porn comics (e.g., Carnal, Eros) into the underground genre.

 

I believe undergrounds are still being published.

 

Someone above mentioned Fukitor. Indeed, that is a good example of what I would deem a "modern underground," seemingly inspired by the underground horror comics of old (e.g., Skull, Slow Death).

Agree. Small press isn't underground by default, but underground was originally small press by default. But it doesn't have to be small press by default any more. Didn't DC publish some American Splendor?