Anyone think this looks Shilly?

[Speedy-D]

Even if they were scrambled if I had 100 items on consignment and all 100 were being bid on by t***h I would notice that pretty fast and without spending a lot of time 'researching' it.

 

OK and then what would you do, if you are SC?

The point is, as a business, you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety. What do you do if you think a consignor is playing dirty and possibly sullying your name? You stop taking their consignments. You could also block the bidder and relist, but if you don't want to go that far, at least don't deal with them in the future. It's not rocket science to think up some steps that could be taken.

[1950's war comics]

What I will say, if anyone is interested in one dude's humble opinion, is that I see a lot of people on these boards very quick to accuse people of shilling. Nine times out of ten it's sour grapes because the bids rose beyond a buyer's reach or expectations. In other cases, those accusations have been dead-on, and we've seen instances where shillers caught in the act have come on here to admit their wrongdoing, and in some cases to be shamed out of the community. Good for those boardies for their detective work, for presenting convincing evidence, and for bringing these cases to light.

 

But some considerations should be made for this situation. An eBay user has been identified who has placed a lot of bids on 31 Sparkle City auctions. What I think serves no purpose is to jump to the conclusion that someone at Sparkle City, or the company in general, is dirty, when there are so many other possible explanations for this.

 

This could be a new user who bid on 31 items in one auction. This could be a user who indeed who has bid only on 31 Sparkle City auctions (not hard to believe). Or, this could be a user who has consigned items to Sparkle City and is bidding on (shilling) their own consignments.

 

Regarding this last possibility, we all know this can happen in any online auction and there is absolutely nothing that can be done to stop it. It can happen in Heritage auctions, ComicConnect auctions, myComicShop auctions, ComicLink auctions, Hake's auctions, Morphy's auctions, auctions that happen here on the boards, and yes, on Sparkle City's eBay auctions. The auction hosts may identify cases where someone with a user id has identifying details (for example name and/or email) in common with their consignor, but they can do very, very little to stop use of false identities or shilling rings.

 

Let's consider all the other possibilities, without pointing a finger at likely the last place it should be pointed. Or suggest something that can be done about the plague of anonymous shilling. We can be vigilant, but shilling that can't be identified is something we just have to live with in this hobby if you choose to participate in online auctions. At least eBay has some tools available to us to spot suspicious bidding patterns; something none of the other auction venues has. For using this venue, this is arguably one reason Sparkle City should be above reproach, at least relative to all other auctioneers.

I'm sorry but your post makes me even more leary than I was before, I want to thank all you boardies for opening my eyes , I had purchased a CGC graded comic from them before but will be VERY wary in the future...also when someone posts a dubious defense of VERY suspicious auction bidding it opens my eyes even more

[wombat]

Why do they need ebay's consent? They can end the auctions and return the books.

 

End an auction because they suspect shilling? Or end the auction because they suspect shilling by the consignor?

 

Do you know that you can consign books to SC without providing your eBay name? Do you know that if they asked by policy, that you could probably give a false one?

 

If there is indeed a pattern that the books come from one consignor it would have to be linked to that consignor. Either that person or someone he told.

[Speedy-D]

Even if they were scrambled if I had 100 items on consignment and all 100 were being bid on by t***h I would notice that pretty fast and without spending a lot of time 'researching' it.

 

OK and then what would you do, if you are SC?

The point is, as a business, you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety. What do you do if you think a consignor is playing dirty and possibly sullying your name? You stop taking their consignments. You could also block the bidder and relist, but if you don't want to go that far, at least don't deal with them in the future. It's not rocket science to think up some steps that could be taken.

You could also, y'know, talk to the consignor, tell them that's not how you play the game, that you're keeping an eye on them, and give them another chance.

[Heronext]

Sellers can the the ebay name of all bidders on a particular auction, they are not scrambled.

 

Can someone confirm if this is true? I really thought sellers could not see the full name, because then you could contact people who were bidding on your auction while it was in progress, which opens the auction up to shadiness...

 

Someone who has auctions in progress could check...

[The-Collector]

In that case it would be up to Sparkle city to notice possible shenanigans and err on the side of caution and not take that person's consignments. If indeed that mysterious bidder is bidding on items from one consignee, thats a smoking gun and Sparkle should act. it's their rep on the line.

 

I'm sure Sparkle City is busy enough sourcing, listing and processing books to spend the hours upon hours it would take to scrutinize bidding histories to that degree (99% of such effort would turn up nothing).

 

Even if they became suspicious, all they have is a scrambled ebay username. What are they supposed to do, report it to eBay? Do you think they would do anything? I'm not saying they wouldn't, I just don't know.

 

Just because they are busy does not absolve them of responsibility.

 

Have any of the other auction houses ever banned a consignor for the same reasons? We can't hold SC up to standards when we don't even know what the standards are, across the entire online comic book auction landscape.

 

Irrelevant as the standard is not set by the lowest standard of conduct by others in the same industry.

[Heronext]

In that case it would be up to Sparkle city to notice possible shenanigans and err on the side of caution and not take that person's consignments. If indeed that mysterious bidder is bidding on items from one consignee, thats a smoking gun and Sparkle should act. it's their rep on the line.

 

I'm sure Sparkle City is busy enough sourcing, listing and processing books to spend the hours upon hours it would take to scrutinize bidding histories to that degree (99% of such effort would turn up nothing).

 

Even if they became suspicious, all they have is a scrambled ebay username. What are they supposed to do, report it to eBay? Do you think they would do anything? I'm not saying they wouldn't, I just don't know.

 

Just because they are busy does not absolve them of responsibility.

 

Have any of the other auction houses ever banned a consignor for the same reasons? We can't hold SC up to standards when we don't even know what the standards are, across the entire online comic book auction landscape.

 

Irrelevant as the standard is not set by the lowest standard of conduct by others in the same industry.

 

Of course not by the lowest standard. But we can compare SC's standards and see if SC's standards are low, average or high compared to others. Why should 5 of the 6 biggest comic auctioneers escape scrutiny on this matter simply because they are black boxes?

[kav]

We can only investigate what we can see. We can see bidders somewhat on ebay.

[Heronext]

Even if they were scrambled if I had 100 items on consignment and all 100 were being bid on by t***h I would notice that pretty fast and without spending a lot of time 'researching' it.

 

OK and then what would you do, if you are SC?

The point is, as a business, you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety. What do you do if you think a consignor is playing dirty and possibly sullying your name? You stop taking their consignments. You could also block the bidder and relist, but if you don't want to go that far, at least don't deal with them in the future. It's not rocket science to think up some steps that could be taken.

You could also, y'know, talk to the consignor, tell them that's not how you play the game, that you're keeping an eye on them, and give them another chance.

 

But how can they know for sure that a consignor is shilling their own auctions?

[kav]

Who else would? some random dude?

[Heronext]

We can only investigate what we can see. We can see bidders somewhat on ebay.

 

Right but why pile up on SC when they are probably doing the exact same amount of due diligence (none) as other auction houses to monitor their auctions for shilling?

 

Exactly because they use a venue with investigative tools available to the public is a reason they perhaps could be commended. Or at least this should be considered. Users can see that and avoid those auctions.

[wombat]

Even if they were scrambled if I had 100 items on consignment and all 100 were being bid on by t***h I would notice that pretty fast and without spending a lot of time 'researching' it.

 

OK and then what would you do, if you are SC?

The point is, as a business, you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety. What do you do if you think a consignor is playing dirty and possibly sullying your name? You stop taking their consignments. You could also block the bidder and relist, but if you don't want to go that far, at least don't deal with them in the future. It's not rocket science to think up some steps that could be taken.

You could also, y'know, talk to the consignor, tell them that's not how you play the game, that you're keeping an eye on them, and give them another chance.

 

But how can they know for sure that a consignor is shilling their own auctions?

 

By the pattern. If one person is shilling all the books in one consignment who else could it possibly be?

 

[The-Collector]

In that case it would be up to Sparkle city to notice possible shenanigans and err on the side of caution and not take that person's consignments. If indeed that mysterious bidder is bidding on items from one consignee, thats a smoking gun and Sparkle should act. it's their rep on the line.

 

I'm sure Sparkle City is busy enough sourcing, listing and processing books to spend the hours upon hours it would take to scrutinize bidding histories to that degree (99% of such effort would turn up nothing).

 

Even if they became suspicious, all they have is a scrambled ebay username. What are they supposed to do, report it to eBay? Do you think they would do anything? I'm not saying they wouldn't, I just don't know.

 

Just because they are busy does not absolve them of responsibility.

 

Have any of the other auction houses ever banned a consignor for the same reasons? We can't hold SC up to standards when we don't even know what the standards are, across the entire online comic book auction landscape.

 

Irrelevant as the standard is not set by the lowest standard of conduct by others in the same industry.

 

Of course not by the lowest standard. But we can compare SC's standards and see if SC's standards are low, average or high compared to others. Why should 5 of the 6 biggest comic auctioneers escape scrutiny on this matter simply because they are black boxes?

 

It is still irrelevant as the standard should be objective not something that is relative to the behaviour of others in the industry. If it was relative everyone could move the standard down by all behaving badly and the conduct would still be acceptable.

 

My original point was it doesn't matter that they are busy. They still have a duty to monitor their own sales for suspicious behaviour and to try and protect their customers. So I don't care whether others do this or not as they are also obligated to make efforts. That they don't make an effort does not absolve SC.

[kav]

They should thank us for looking out for them then

If the other auction houses want us to they can put stuff on ebay

[Heronext]

I'm sorry but your post makes me even more leary than I was before

 

If something in my post opened your eyes to unscrupulous bidding strategies you weren't aware of before, no need to apologize

 

I want to thank all you boardies for opening my eyes

 

You're welcome

 

I had purchased a CGC graded comic from them before but will be VERY wary in the future...

 

You should be wary on eBay especially, with all sellers all the time

 

also when someone posts a dubious defense of VERY suspicious auction bidding it opens my eyes even more

 

Not sure if you are referring to my post? Wasn't defending suspicious bidding activity at all so I'll assume you meant someone else.

[Heronext]

Even if they were scrambled if I had 100 items on consignment and all 100 were being bid on by t***h I would notice that pretty fast and without spending a lot of time 'researching' it.

 

OK and then what would you do, if you are SC?

The point is, as a business, you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety. What do you do if you think a consignor is playing dirty and possibly sullying your name? You stop taking their consignments. You could also block the bidder and relist, but if you don't want to go that far, at least don't deal with them in the future. It's not rocket science to think up some steps that could be taken.

You could also, y'know, talk to the consignor, tell them that's not how you play the game, that you're keeping an eye on them, and give them another chance.

 

But how can they know for sure that a consignor is shilling their own auctions?

 

By the pattern. If one person is shilling all the books in one consignment who else could it possibly be?

 

OK, so SC spends probably at least 2 man-days checking all the bidding histories on every lot in every auction every week and cross-checking those lots against consignors. And if any of those consignor lots appear to have been shilled, without looking to eBay for any further evidence they should give that consignor a stern talking-to?

 

I suppose they could do that but that would be a very sensitive conversation and very sensitive business decision... Going to mull that one over

[kav]

OK how bout just the ones we find?

[1950's war comics]

I'm sorry but your post makes me even more leary than I was before

 

If something in my post opened your eyes to unscrupulous bidding strategies you weren't aware of before, no need to apologize

 

I want to thank all you boardies for opening my eyes

 

You're welcome

 

I had purchased a CGC graded comic from them before but will be VERY wary in the future...

 

You should be wary on eBay especially, with all sellers all the time

 

also when someone posts a dubious defense of VERY suspicious auction bidding it opens my eyes even more

 

Not sure if you are referring to my post? Wasn't defending suspicious bidding activity at all so I'll assume you meant someone else.

Thank you for the information , duly noted, and yes I was referring to your post , you mentioned that 9 out of 10 times it is not shill bidding and in this very obvious case you are attempting to defend the indefensible , yes I was a little naive as I am a noob but i have learned something now which i will not forget and i your posts have only reaffirmed my suspicions

thanks again.

[Heronext]

I'm sorry but your post makes me even more leary than I was before

 

If something in my post opened your eyes to unscrupulous bidding strategies you weren't aware of before, no need to apologize

 

I want to thank all you boardies for opening my eyes

 

You're welcome

 

I had purchased a CGC graded comic from them before but will be VERY wary in the future...

 

You should be wary on eBay especially, with all sellers all the time

 

also when someone posts a dubious defense of VERY suspicious auction bidding it opens my eyes even more

 

Not sure if you are referring to my post? Wasn't defending suspicious bidding activity at all so I'll assume you meant someone else.

Thank you for the information , duly noted, and yes I was referring to your post , you mentioned that 9 out of 10 times it is not shill bidding and in this very obvious case you are attempting to defend the indefensible , yes I was a little naive as I am a noob but i have learned something now which i will not forget and i your posts have only reaffirmed my suspicions

thanks again.

 

Only to say that I wasn't defending this "case", I was first of all saying, hold on, let's not accuse SC employees of shilling their own auctions, if this wasn't the initial accusation then I misunderstood... Now we are talking about how much SC can/should do to prevent this or alert people or pull auctions or whatever. I'm not defending the shiller at all, just having a friendly debate about what SC or other auctioneers can or should do in this situation. Interesting discussion, thanks for the debate all, some great points here.

 

And the 9 out of 10 comment was that 9 out of 10 times I think an accusation of shilling (even if kept to yourself) is jumping the gun or "over-suspicion" or sour grapes. I admit to thinking it early on when I first began participating in online auctions. The price goes up and up, above guide, above GPA, you see this going out of your grasp, How can that be? *Must be shilling*. A member here a few months back was sure a lot in a ComicConnect auction he wanted was shilled; well I was the underbidder and participated in the bidding war after that guy bailed out, so I posted, shilling unlikely :thumbsup:

[The-Collector]

I'm sorry but your post makes me even more leary than I was before

 

If something in my post opened your eyes to unscrupulous bidding strategies you weren't aware of before, no need to apologize

 

I want to thank all you boardies for opening my eyes

 

You're welcome

 

I had purchased a CGC graded comic from them before but will be VERY wary in the future...

 

You should be wary on eBay especially, with all sellers all the time

 

also when someone posts a dubious defense of VERY suspicious auction bidding it opens my eyes even more

 

Not sure if you are referring to my post? Wasn't defending suspicious bidding activity at all so I'll assume you meant someone else.

Thank you for the information , duly noted, and yes I was referring to your post , you mentioned that 9 out of 10 times it is not shill bidding and in this very obvious case you are attempting to defend the indefensible , yes I was a little naive as I am a noob but i have learned something now which i will not forget and i your posts have only reaffirmed my suspicions

thanks again.

 

Only to say that I wasn't defending this "case", I was first of all saying, hold on, let's not accuse SC employees of shilling their own auctions, if this wasn't the initial accusation then I misunderstood... Now we are talking about how much SC can/should do to prevent this or alert people or pull auctions or whatever. I'm not defending the shiller at all, just having a friendly debate about what SC or other auctioneers can or should do in this situation. Interesting discussion, thanks for the debate all, some great points here.

 

And the 9 out of 10 comment was that 9 out of 10 times I think an accusation of shilling (even if kept to yourself) is jumping the gun or "over-suspicion" or sour grapes. I admit to thinking it early on when I first began participating in online auctions. The price goes up and up, above guide, above GPA, you see this going out of your grasp, How can that be? *Must be shilling*. A member here a few months back was sure a lot in a ComicConnect auction he wanted was shilled; well I was the underbidder and participated in the bidding war after that guy bailed out, so I posted, shilling unlikely :thumbsup:

 

Good points. Boardies can often go off on baseless witch hunts.