Great book on ebay ...War Against Crime 11

[Tsp99]

To me its the same book with a different certification number - and the CGC information available through the website says there's no such certification.

 

 

I agree. I was the winner of this book on Ebay 2 days ago. Just before I went to pay the seller I checked the bar code # on the label and found out that no match was found. I looked again, assuming I had misread the label, and again found no match on CGC's cert verification. I then contacted the seller Mr. Ubiquitous through Ebay to get more specifics on the book and got this interesting response yesterday....

 

"Greetings,

 

Im confused? the label is quite easy to read? Are you a serious buyer? because you would assume you'd have asked these questions prior to bidding? You won the book FAR below what it should have sold for? Do you wish to cancel the sale? Otherwise, why have you not paid?"

 

Some nerve, huh?

 

Earlier today I double checked by calling CGC and was told that label # 1076228004 does not exist and that there is currently only one graded 9.2 copy of WAC 11. Our own Mxwll Smrt owns it. Smrt's book is clearly the one I supposedly "won" on Ebay. No doubt this was a scam. I'm just glad I caught it before I paid.

 

 

 

Was able to find out through Ebay the seller's Information:

 

Bryan Stulberger

Sea Cliff, NY 11579

 

Just wanted to warn everyone so no one else ends up in the situation I was in. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Supernerd]

Wow!

 

This sounds incredibly shady, and I'm happy that it was caught before Tsp99 made the payment.

 

That's some excellent detective work by Mxwll Smrt, and it's wonderful that the community on the boards really look out for each other

 

 

[goldust40]

To me its the same book with a different certification number - and the CGC information available through the website says there's no such certification.

 

 

I agree. I was the winner of this book on Ebay 2 days ago. Just before I went to pay the seller I checked the bar code # on the label and found out that no match was found. I looked again, assuming I had misread the label, and again found no match on CGC's cert verification. I then contacted the seller Mr. Ubiquitous through Ebay to get more specifics on the book and got this interesting response yesterday....

 

"Greetings,

 

Im confused? the label is quite easy to read? Are you a serious buyer? because you would assume you'd have asked these questions prior to bidding? You won the book FAR below what it should have sold for? Do you wish to cancel the sale? Otherwise, why have you not paid?"

 

Some nerve, huh?

 

Earlier today I double checked by calling CGC and was told that label # 1076228004 does not exist and that there is currently only one graded 9.2 copy of WAC 11. Our own Mxwll Smrt owns it. Smrt's book is clearly the one I supposedly "won" on Ebay. No doubt this was a scam. I'm just glad I caught it before I paid.

 

Well done. Not everyone would've made the effort to check.

[telerites]

Telerites posted this link from 12 year ago earlier in the thread:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4516#Post4516

 

I saw that. I just can't remember his later incarnations. Maybe The Question, that guy who faked owning a muscle car with special rims a few years ago?

 

There were several other disparaging posts when I searched for procustean. In the link I posted, Vinnie refers to his real name, Bryan Stulberger. In mr.ubiquitous' About Me page, he lists his name as Bryan so this is the same guy.

 

This one is amazing - Procrustean's Canadian tirade on Ebay

 

And yet another from 2005 - Strange?!

 

And this one that links what Roy was thinking as the Question alias for procrustean - http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3313127

 

There are many others. I would never ever buy from the guy and would definitely block him as a bidder if I happen to be selling.

 

 

 

 

 

[MagicMasonry-migration]

These are definitely two different books. There are little white specs in different locations on the black bar at the bottom. And the top left corner there is white on mxwll's copy and not on the ebay copy. I think it's more than likely a CGC census error. The seller has perfect feedback and seems like he didn't want to complete the sale since it went for half of guide, seems pretty normal to me.

[mysterio]

These are definitely two different books. There are little white specs in different locations on the black bar at the bottom. And the top left corner there is white on mxwll's copy and not on the ebay copy. I think it's more than likely a CGC census error. The seller has perfect feedback and seems like he didn't want to complete the sale since it went for half of guide, seems pretty normal to me.

 

Did you read the thread before you posted this bit of detective work?

[MagicMasonry-migration]

Yes I've read the thread, what's your point? Seems everyone thinks it's the same book, it's definitely not. There's countless subtle differences you can easily see between the two books if you use your eyes.

 

Also, why not pay and see what happens. Worst comes to worst, you contact ebay and get your money back thru buyer protection. No biggie.

[mysterio]

Yes I've read the thread, what's your point? Seems everyone thinks it's the same book, it's definitely not. There's countless subtle differences you can easily see between the two books if you use your eyes.

 

1) The certificate number on the auction doesn't give a valid result.

2) The CGC census only shows one copy in grade, which is accounted for. If the census is off, it is never off for having too few copies (unless a book was just graded and hasn't been updated yet, but see #1).

3) It is possible to ADD defects to a scan or photo if desired to make it look different.

4) Others have pointed out unique similarities between the two books.

5) Boardies in Gold have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about these books. If they say it is the same book you can take that to the bank.

[VintageComics]

These are definitely two different books. There are little white specs in different locations on the black bar at the bottom. And the top left corner there is white on mxwll's copy and not on the ebay copy. I think it's more than likely a CGC census error. The seller has perfect feedback and seems like he didn't want to complete the sale since it went for half of guide, seems pretty normal to me.

 

The books look more alike than not-alike. Small white or black specs can just be a matter of scanner artifact or digital processing of the picture, but the big touchstones like staple placement, cut, larger markings all line up identically.

 

Couple that with the fact that the serial number does not look legit and the seller has a history of being...unusual to say the least, all adds up to something looking fishy.

 

EDIT: And you might have missed the part about him commonly stealing scans...

[MagicMasonry-migration]

Did you not read my post before you posted? I said it's more than likely a census error which would negate your first two points. Of course he could have photoshopped it, which would require an awful lot of work, and a lot of risk to perfect feedback for such a relatively inexpensive book. Doesn't make sense to me, but whatever. I'd pay and just get my money back if I receive a box of rocks.

 

Btw, I can observe at least 20 differences between these books, which seems like an awful lot to have to photoshop, it would be quite an intricate job if it was. If you were going to put such effort into shopping a book, wouldn't you make it look noticeably different from the original? These books look almost identical at first glance, but they're not. The most solid difference, and near impossible to shop, is the cascading of the interior pages at the bottom of the book that show underneath. The ebay copy doesn't have that going on and is still the same distance from the plastic holder lining. I realize the guy had a bad rep, but those posts are from 10-12 years ago.

[VintageComics]

Did you not read my post before you posted? I said it's more than likely a census error which would negate your first two points. Of course he could have photoshopped it, which would require an awful lot of work, and a lot of risk to perfect feedback for such a relatively inexpensive book. Doesn't make sense to me, but whatever. I'd pay and just get my money back if I receive a box of rocks.

 

Btw, I can observe at least 20 differences between these books, which seems like an awful lot to have to photoshop, it would be quite an intricate job if it was. If you were going to put such effort into shopping a book, wouldn't you make it look noticeably different from the original? These books look almost identical at first glance, but they're not. The most solid difference, and near impossible to shop, is the cascading of the interior pages at the bottom of the book that show underneath. The ebay copy doesn't have that going on and is still the same distance from the plastic holder lining.

 

The pages cascade on both copies. The details are just harder to see in the eBay listing because the picture is smaller but there are other 'tells' the make the copies look identical. Staple placement, cut markets, wrap, wear on the books. I'm almost positive they are the same books.

 

I realize the guy had a bad rep, but those posts are from 10-12 years ago.

 

Apparently, based on old conversations, the guy has a reputation of using other people's scans and they weren't even just accusations. He came on this very forum and defended himself by trying to justify it saying there was nothing wrong with the practice.

 

Sorry, the evidence seems pretty stacked.

[MagicMasonry-migration]

Roy, the ebay copy does not cascade, there is one sheet sticking out from the bottom(does not constitute "cascading"). It looks to be the piece of interior paper protector that goes on the inside of the interior cover that commonly sticks out sometimes.

 

It's either an impressive photoshop, or a CGC system error. The latter seems more likely to me.

 

The guys reputation makes him seem like quite a character. I wouldn't expect this type of character to be a wiz with photoshop, anything's possible

[mysterio]

Roy, the ebay copy does not cascade, there is one sheet sticking out from the bottom(does not constitute "cascading"). It looks to be the piece of interior paper protector that goes on the inside of the interior cover that commonly sticks out sometimes.

 

It's either an impressive photoshop, or a CGC system error. The latter seems more likely to me.

 

The guys reputation makes him seem like quite a character. I wouldn't expect this type of character to be a wiz with photoshop, anything's possible

 

Since the original buyer is opting out, and you seem comfortable sending this seller money, maybe you'll see if you can get a second chance offer.

[Mxwll Smrt]

Roy, the ebay copy does not cascade, there is one sheet sticking out from the bottom(does not constitute "cascading"). It looks to be the piece of interior paper protector that goes on the inside of the interior cover that commonly sticks out sometimes.

 

It's either an impressive photoshop, or a CGC system error. The latter seems more likely to me.

 

The guys reputation makes him seem like quite a character. I wouldn't expect this type of character to be a wiz with photoshop, anything's possible

 

Sometimes a book can slide within its sleeve in the CGC holder and my scan may be after the original Comiclink scan. What would make this an absolute shoe in for the truth is a scan of the back cover - and I'd like to see the scan of the ebay book's back cover because there's both a reason he doesn't have one and because there are a few more unique identifiers - and either their exposure or something never seen would be beyond reproach.

 

Nonetheless, the defects of interests are:

 

1. Bottom edge of the front cover @ 5pm from the Johnny Craig sig. along the off white mis-cut border.

 

2. The staple placement and the discoloration around the upper staple which is actually from movement/ the slightest of pull.

 

3. The upper left corner.

 

4. The bottom left corner.

[rjpb]

It's possible but unlikely that CGC's database might be in error and not include a given book and cert. number.

 

It's possible but even more unlikely that two comics with identical miscuts could end up being the only copies in a given CGC grade.

 

The coincidence of both things happening to the same book are so unlikely that I would have to see both copies in hand simultaneously to believe that to be the case.

[VintageComics]

It's possible but unlikely that CGC's database might be in error and not include a given book and cert. number.

 

It's possible but even more unlikely that two comics with identical miscuts could end up being the only copies in a given CGC grade.

 

The coincidence of both things happening to the same book are so unlikely that I would have to see both copies in hand simultaneously to believe that to be the case.

 

Wrong serial numbers, identical miscuts, same grades AND identical wear patterns on both books. And the seller admits to using scans of books that he doesn't own.

 

I'd have better odds playing Russian Roulette.

 

 

[originalisbest]

Yes I've read the thread, what's your point? Seems everyone thinks it's the same book, it's definitely not. There's countless subtle differences you can easily see between the two books if you use your eyes.

 

Also, why not pay and see what happens. Worst comes to worst, you contact ebay and get your money back thru buyer protection. No biggie.

 

Your digital detective eye is off -- those specs are indicitave of white flyspecks on a scan, not on the book itself, as is the ULC. More like countless subtle similarities.

[originalisbest]

It's possible but unlikely that CGC's database might be in error and not include a given book and cert. number.

 

It's possible but even more unlikely that two comics with identical miscuts could end up being the only copies in a given CGC grade.

 

The coincidence of both things happening to the same book are so unlikely that I would have to see both copies in hand simultaneously to believe that to be the case.

 

Wrong serial numbers, identical miscuts, same grades AND identical wear patterns on both books. And the seller admits to using scans of books that he doesn't own.

 

I'd have better odds playing Russian Roulette.

 

 

Wrap all the visual evidence in with the particular seller in question, and that's all you need to know.

[jimjum12]

You guys keep this up and the fella may decide to just keep the book.... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Mxwll Smrt]

I sent GPAnalysis an email that the certification number for the book doesn't exist. Does anyone have a friend at GPAnalysis??