Collectibles are worthless...

[kav]

Does anything other than food, shelter, or clothing, and related materials to make or help make those items or acquire have any intrinsic value?

 

I think you're talking about more of a philosophical existential question about the meaning of life and possessions.

 

No one forces you or anyone else to collect anything, to buy and sell anything. Its not for everyone. People collect all different things, and for all different reasons, but at some point you should when you enjoy the collectible personally, or will gain some enjoyment from selling (hopefully for a profit) later on. If you don't enjoy the product for the price you paid, and don't realize gains from selling, perhaps comics and collectibles are not for you.

 

The same can be said for nearly any item. We don't need to buy napkins, there's a million trees everywhere, we could just use leaves. We don't need computers, I can't eat my computer or live in it or wear it.

 

My guess is the OP needs a deepdive on his own issues and/or his own priorities.

 

I'm not against collecting. I am against collecting though when what you're collecting costs an insane amount of money for something that was originally a few cents worth. I mean look at the WD #1 how do you even begin to rationalize the amount of money that it's going for? and trust me, I own one and once the allure of owning one wears off, that's when rational thinking jumps in and you wonder what the hell was I thinking.

Yep it's 'insane' to buy WD 1 for $690 and later sell for $1200...

[Amin80]

"If you buy an ounce of gold today and you hold it a hundred years, you can go to it every day and you could coo to it and fondle it and a hundred years from now, you’ll have one ounce of gold and it won’t have done anything for you in between. You buy 100 acres of farm land and it will produce for you every year. You can buy more farmland, and all kinds of things, and you still have 100 acres of farmland at the end of 100 years. [A] decent productive asset will kill an unproductive asset"

 

--Warren Buffett

 

 

Warren has a point, land is more precious than gold, unfortunately not many people can afford to buy land.

[Amin80]

I don't know if collectibles are a U.S. thing, but I'm starting to think that the crazy amounts of money spent, were spent on something that is so illiquid unless you're living in the U.S. so anyway, I live in the UAE (Dubai) and a few months back I wanted to sell some of my valuable comics on a popular classified site, but there was no interest what so ever. People were even messaging me and telling me I was crazy to expect to get that much for a comic book. We are talking comics like Spiderman #50, 122, Hulk 181 etc.

 

I see the same thing happening with Legos now, and it seems to have become a fad right after the Lego movie, people hoarding sets hoping they'll sell them for huge profits. But at the end of the day, as much as you might love the blocks, no one in their right mind is going to pay $5,000 for a toy. Collectibles just present an illusion of gold, but they are not worth anything.

 

So essentially what you're saying is that because you couldn't sell comics locally, via classified ads, those comics are worthless?

 

Further, because no one will pay $5000 for some Lego set, you conclude that no one ever has or ever will pay $5000 for a toy?

 

Welcome to comics general. Your logic, while terrible, is still above average for this place.

 

Ok I'll give you an example, let's pretend you don't care about superheroes, comics etc. now I've seen these hot toys which are selling for like $350, for what? it is a piece of plastic. Would you think that is normal to spend that kind of money on such a thing. I'm honestly not trying to start any flame war, I'm just interested to have an intelligent conversation about this. Are collectibles actually worth anything, or are people really deluding themselves? I know no one would ever think you're crazy if you put that kind of money and more buying gold.

 

Collectibles aren't commodities, but if you want a collectible that costs $500, and other people want it and are willing to pay $500, then it's worth $500 at that point in time. You can't use it as fuel, shelter or food, but that's true of non-collectible items as well, including gold and various financial instruments like stocks and bonds. Even currency itself. If a market exists where someone is willing to trade $500 for a collectible, and you can in-turn take that $500 and convert it to food, or paying rent, or gas in your car, then that collectible has value. In the same way, gold only has value so long as a market for it exists, and currency only has value as long as it can be exchanged for goods and services.

 

That said, collectibles aren't commodities that you can buy or sell on an exchange, so you have to seek out buyers who are willing to purchase what you have. Not being able to find buyers locally doesn't render that collectible worthless; it just means it's not as liquid as something like gold.

 

Yeah but if you have gold it's a highly liquid asset. You can go to any jewellery shop and sell it. Comics are not, you will be lucky to find someone willing to pay the asking price.

[kav]

I don't know if collectibles are a U.S. thing, but I'm starting to think that the crazy amounts of money spent, were spent on something that is so illiquid unless you're living in the U.S. so anyway, I live in the UAE (Dubai) and a few months back I wanted to sell some of my valuable comics on a popular classified site, but there was no interest what so ever. People were even messaging me and telling me I was crazy to expect to get that much for a comic book. We are talking comics like Spiderman #50, 122, Hulk 181 etc.

 

I see the same thing happening with Legos now, and it seems to have become a fad right after the Lego movie, people hoarding sets hoping they'll sell them for huge profits. But at the end of the day, as much as you might love the blocks, no one in their right mind is going to pay $5,000 for a toy. Collectibles just present an illusion of gold, but they are not worth anything.

 

So essentially what you're saying is that because you couldn't sell comics locally, via classified ads, those comics are worthless?

 

Further, because no one will pay $5000 for some Lego set, you conclude that no one ever has or ever will pay $5000 for a toy?

 

Welcome to comics general. Your logic, while terrible, is still above average for this place.

 

Ok I'll give you an example, let's pretend you don't care about superheroes, comics etc. now I've seen these hot toys which are selling for like $350, for what? it is a piece of plastic. Would you think that is normal to spend that kind of money on such a thing. I'm honestly not trying to start any flame war, I'm just interested to have an intelligent conversation about this. Are collectibles actually worth anything, or are people really deluding themselves? I know no one would ever think you're crazy if you put that kind of money and more buying gold.

 

Collectibles aren't commodities, but if you want a collectible that costs $500, and other people want it and are willing to pay $500, then it's worth $500 at that point in time. You can't use it as fuel, shelter or food, but that's true of non-collectible items as well, including gold and various financial instruments like stocks and bonds. Even currency itself. If a market exists where someone is willing to trade $500 for a collectible, and you can in-turn take that $500 and convert it to food, or paying rent, or gas in your car, then that collectible has value. In the same way, gold only has value so long as a market for it exists, and currency only has value as long as it can be exchanged for goods and services.

 

That said, collectibles aren't commodities that you can buy or sell on an exchange, so you have to seek out buyers who are willing to purchase what you have. Not being able to find buyers locally doesn't render that collectible worthless; it just means it's not as liquid as something like gold.

 

Yeah but if you have gold it's a highly liquid asset. You can go to any jewellery shop and sell it. Comics are not, you will be lucky to find someone willing to pay the asking price.

Have you heard of ebay?

[revat]

Does anything other than food, shelter, or clothing, and related materials to make or help make those items or acquire have any intrinsic value?

 

I think you're talking about more of a philosophical existential question about the meaning of life and possessions.

 

No one forces you or anyone else to collect anything, to buy and sell anything. Its not for everyone. People collect all different things, and for all different reasons, but at some point you should when you enjoy the collectible personally, or will gain some enjoyment from selling (hopefully for a profit) later on. If you don't enjoy the product for the price you paid, and don't realize gains from selling, perhaps comics and collectibles are not for you.

 

The same can be said for nearly any item. We don't need to buy napkins, there's a million trees everywhere, we could just use leaves. We don't need computers, I can't eat my computer or live in it or wear it.

 

My guess is the OP needs a deepdive on his own issues and/or his own priorities.

 

I'm not against collecting. I am against collecting though when what you're collecting costs an insane amount of money for something that was originally a few cents worth. I mean look at the WD #1 how do you even begin to rationalize the amount of money that it's going for? and trust me, I own one and once the allure of owning one wears off, that's when rational thinking jumps in and you wonder what the hell was I thinking.

 

I think we're all generally against making poor financial decisions or making investments we can't really afford. Collecting for personal joy and collecting for investment can be two separate issues, or can be intermingled. And its not for everyone. NO one makes anyone invest in 'collectibles'.

 

I think many people get sobered every once in awhile when they've seen how much money they've spent on X, whether its collectibles, a vacation, a failed relationship, law school, bail, or whatever, that's natural. And if/when that happens, there's nothing wrong with stepping back and seeing what's really important to you NOW and making moves towards achieving those ends.

 

BUT that doesn't mean that the rules of economics fall apart or that you've had some unparalleled epiphany.

[Dr. Balls]

I think many people get sobered every once in awhile when they've seen how much money they've spent on X, whether its collectibles, a vacation, a failed relationship, law school, bail, or whatever, that's natural. And if/when that happens, there's nothing wrong with stepping back and seeing what's really important to you NOW and making moves towards achieving those ends.

 

BUT that doesn't mean that the rules of economics fall apart or that you've had some unparalleled epiphany.

 

 

For me, the thread is over with that. But I'll come back soon for MEMES.

[retrothecollector]

"If you buy an ounce of gold today and you hold it a hundred years, you can go to it every day and you could coo to it and fondle it and a hundred years from now, you’ll have one ounce of gold and it won’t have done anything for you in between. You buy 100 acres of farm land and it will produce for you every year. You can buy more farmland, and all kinds of things, and you still have 100 acres of farmland at the end of 100 years. [A] decent productive asset will kill an unproductive asset"

 

--Warren Buffett

 

 

Warren has a point, land is more precious than gold, unfortunately not many people can afford to buy land.

You need a whole lot of gold to buy land.

Then you need to make sure there's no drought for the land to produce. Poor California. I still love ya

 

[COI]

I don't know if collectibles are a U.S. thing, but I'm starting to think that the crazy amounts of money spent, were spent on something that is so illiquid unless you're living in the U.S. so anyway, I live in the UAE (Dubai) and a few months back I wanted to sell some of my valuable comics on a popular classified site, but there was no interest what so ever. People were even messaging me and telling me I was crazy to expect to get that much for a comic book. We are talking comics like Spiderman #50, 122, Hulk 181 etc.

 

I see the same thing happening with Legos now, and it seems to have become a fad right after the Lego movie, people hoarding sets hoping they'll sell them for huge profits. But at the end of the day, as much as you might love the blocks, no one in their right mind is going to pay $5,000 for a toy. Collectibles just present an illusion of gold, but they are not worth anything.

 

So essentially what you're saying is that because you couldn't sell comics locally, via classified ads, those comics are worthless?

 

Further, because no one will pay $5000 for some Lego set, you conclude that no one ever has or ever will pay $5000 for a toy?

 

Welcome to comics general. Your logic, while terrible, is still above average for this place.

 

Ok I'll give you an example, let's pretend you don't care about superheroes, comics etc. now I've seen these hot toys which are selling for like $350, for what? it is a piece of plastic. Would you think that is normal to spend that kind of money on such a thing. I'm honestly not trying to start any flame war, I'm just interested to have an intelligent conversation about this. Are collectibles actually worth anything, or are people really deluding themselves? I know no one would ever think you're crazy if you put that kind of money and more buying gold.

 

Collectibles aren't commodities, but if you want a collectible that costs $500, and other people want it and are willing to pay $500, then it's worth $500 at that point in time. You can't use it as fuel, shelter or food, but that's true of non-collectible items as well, including gold and various financial instruments like stocks and bonds. Even currency itself. If a market exists where someone is willing to trade $500 for a collectible, and you can in-turn take that $500 and convert it to food, or paying rent, or gas in your car, then that collectible has value. In the same way, gold only has value so long as a market for it exists, and currency only has value as long as it can be exchanged for goods and services.

 

That said, collectibles aren't commodities that you can buy or sell on an exchange, so you have to seek out buyers who are willing to purchase what you have. Not being able to find buyers locally doesn't render that collectible worthless; it just means it's not as liquid as something like gold.

 

Yeah but if you have gold it's a highly liquid asset. You can go to any jewellery shop and sell it. Comics are not, you will be lucky to find someone willing to pay the asking price.

 

1) That's exactly what I just said. Comics aren't a commodity and they don't have a set rate of exchange. Less liquidity does not equal "worthless".

 

2) You're talking as if the only reason to buy comics is their value as financial instruments.

 

3) You don't seem to grasp that wealth, and thus buying power, is relative. As someone said earlier, if you make $350 an hour, a $350 purchase will be discretionary.

[Dark Knight]

Is there really a need to reply to this thread? If he thinks collectibles are not worth a darn thing, then let him believe that.

[revat]

I don't know if collectibles are a U.S. thing, but I'm starting to think that the crazy amounts of money spent, were spent on something that is so illiquid unless you're living in the U.S. so anyway, I live in the UAE (Dubai) and a few months back I wanted to sell some of my valuable comics on a popular classified site, but there was no interest what so ever. People were even messaging me and telling me I was crazy to expect to get that much for a comic book. We are talking comics like Spiderman #50, 122, Hulk 181 etc.

 

I see the same thing happening with Legos now, and it seems to have become a fad right after the Lego movie, people hoarding sets hoping they'll sell them for huge profits. But at the end of the day, as much as you might love the blocks, no one in their right mind is going to pay $5,000 for a toy. Collectibles just present an illusion of gold, but they are not worth anything.

 

So essentially what you're saying is that because you couldn't sell comics locally, via classified ads, those comics are worthless?

 

Further, because no one will pay $5000 for some Lego set, you conclude that no one ever has or ever will pay $5000 for a toy?

 

Welcome to comics general. Your logic, while terrible, is still above average for this place.

 

Ok I'll give you an example, let's pretend you don't care about superheroes, comics etc. now I've seen these hot toys which are selling for like $350, for what? it is a piece of plastic. Would you think that is normal to spend that kind of money on such a thing. I'm honestly not trying to start any flame war, I'm just interested to have an intelligent conversation about this. Are collectibles actually worth anything, or are people really deluding themselves? I know no one would ever think you're crazy if you put that kind of money and more buying gold.

 

Collectibles aren't commodities, but if you want a collectible that costs $500, and other people want it and are willing to pay $500, then it's worth $500 at that point in time. You can't use it as fuel, shelter or food, but that's true of non-collectible items as well, including gold and various financial instruments like stocks and bonds. Even currency itself. If a market exists where someone is willing to trade $500 for a collectible, and you can in-turn take that $500 and convert it to food, or paying rent, or gas in your car, then that collectible has value. In the same way, gold only has value so long as a market for it exists, and currency only has value as long as it can be exchanged for goods and services.

 

That said, collectibles aren't commodities that you can buy or sell on an exchange, so you have to seek out buyers who are willing to purchase what you have. Not being able to find buyers locally doesn't render that collectible worthless; it just means it's not as liquid as something like gold.

 

Yeah but if you have gold it's a highly liquid asset. You can go to any jewellery shop and sell it. Comics are not, you will be lucky to find someone willing to pay the asking price.

 

If you want to live in a world where comics are as liquid as gold, I think we all would have a lot more to worry about at that point. If you got into comics thinking that they'd be ultra liquid or just like printing money that you can sell w/free advertising, I don't think anyone here can help you. The best and hardest working dealers in AMERICA with the best connections and moving the most volume don't live in the Hollywood Hills or on Fifth Ave in NYC. Some do alright, but its not an easy life.

 

[Red_Hood]

Everyone knows that you can't sell comics in a desert.

Water, that's where the real money is.

 

To be serious for a moment. You're trying to sell material that holds more

merit with western pop culture.

Probably suffering from the same reason that comics aren't big in Asia.

[RockMyAmadeus]

What makes gold any different? It has less utility than comics or legos so you could easily argue that collectibles should be worth more. Sure, it is more liquid, but as a store of value, historically, it's not worth its weight in well, ...

 

Gold has less utility than comics or legos...?

 

Are you sure about that?

 

 

(that's a fairly rhetorical question...gold has much, much more utility than comics or legos.)

 

Aside from that, it is its universality that makes it different. Gold is recognized the world over as a store of value, and is the most accepted, and acceptable, medium of exchange that exists.

 

"But what if I need bread, and have bananas to trade for it?"

 

Fine and dandy...until everyone you want to trade with already has bananas, and has no need of yours. Gold solves that problem quite efficiently.

 

There are dozens, if not hundreds, of other reasons, but that would make this a wall of text, and that frightens people.

[ttfitz]

Yeah but if you have gold it's a highly liquid asset. You can go to any jewellery shop and sell it. Comics are not, you will be lucky to find someone willing to pay the asking price.

 

Stop taking your comics to jewelry stores, and start taking them to comic stores.

 

[revat]

What makes gold any different? It has less utility than comics or legos so you could easily argue that collectibles should be worth more. Sure, it is more liquid, but as a store of value, historically, it's not worth its weight in well, ...

 

Gold has less utility than comics or legos...?

 

Are you sure about that?

 

 

(that's a fairly rhetorical question...gold has much, much more utility than comics or legos.)

 

Aside from that, it is its universality that makes it different. Gold is recognized the world over as a store of value, and is the most accepted, and acceptable, medium of exchange that exists.

 

"But what if I need bread, and have bananas to trade for it?"

 

Fine and dandy...until everyone you want to trade with already has bananas, and has no need of yours. Gold solves that problem quite efficiently.

 

There are dozens, if not hundreds, of other reasons, but that would make this a wall of text, and that frightens people.

 

I'm not entirely sure you guys are arguing the same point, but you could literally go anywhere in the world, from the boardroom of a bank in NYC, to a Gypsy village in Poland, to an Ebola-ridden area of Africa, and trade gold for food, shelter, or clothing. Less so with lego's or my CGC Darkhawk collection.

[MetalPSI]

Yeah but if you have gold it's a highly liquid asset. You can go to any jewellery shop and sell it. Comics are not, you will be lucky to find someone willing to pay the asking price.

 

Stop taking your comics to jewelry stores, and start taking them to comic stores.

 

Nice

[kav]

What makes gold any different? It has less utility than comics or legos so you could easily argue that collectibles should be worth more. Sure, it is more liquid, but as a store of value, historically, it's not worth its weight in well, ...

 

Gold has less utility than comics or legos...?

 

Are you sure about that?

 

 

(that's a fairly rhetorical question...gold has much, much more utility than comics or legos.)

 

Aside from that, it is its universality that makes it different. Gold is recognized the world over as a store of value, and is the most accepted, and acceptable, medium of exchange that exists.

 

"But what if I need bread, and have bananas to trade for it?"

 

Fine and dandy...until everyone you want to trade with already has bananas, and has no need of yours. Gold solves that problem quite efficiently.

 

There are dozens, if not hundreds, of other reasons, but that would make this a wall of text, and that frightens people.

 

I'm not entirely sure you guys are arguing the same point, but you could literally go anywhere in the world, from the boardroom of a bank in NYC, to a Gypsy village in Poland, to an Ebola-ridden area of Africa, and trade gold for food, shelter, or clothing. Less so with lego's or my CGC Darkhawk collection.

Less liquid does not equal 'worthless'

[Amin80]

Yeah but if you have gold it's a highly liquid asset. You can go to any jewellery shop and sell it. Comics are not, you will be lucky to find someone willing to pay the asking price.

 

Stop taking your comics to jewelry stores, and start taking them to comic stores.

 

Have you watched the show Comic Book Men? Walt tries to rip off any guy that comes in with something "valuable" a jewellery store can't do that because the price of gold is already set.

[PKJ]

Buy this instead

http://www.lids.com/Melin/20709438

[RockMyAmadeus]

Gold fluctuates too much in value in the short term to be considered a great currency, IMO.

 

 

No, but it is the best method for obtaining bread from someone who makes it.

 

There is nothing so universal as gold. It is the world's oldest, and best, currency.

 

Only because it has been abandoned, for the most part, as a guarantor of paper money, freeing it from the political need for stability required by world powers...sort of (it's more complex than that, but that's fairly accurate as to why it fluctuates in value as much as it has in the last 40 years.)

 

Until roughly the US Civil War, gold had a value that was steady for centuries, if not millennia: roughly 16:1 silver to gold.

 

It was not until the Industrial Revolution, and the advances in commerce it brought, that destabilized gold to an extent.

 

However...were we in the situation whereby it was necessary for commerce again, it would stabilize quite quickly (as evidenced during the Weimar inflation of 1923. Paper became worthless...gold remained pretty much stable.)

 

The problem Buffet doesn't understand, and has never understood, is that of hyperinflation. Thankfully, the US has been mostly spared the ravages of hyperinflation...but that cannot last forever, and when it happens, all his statements about "In 100 years, you'll still only have an ounce of gold" will fall...mainly because gold isn't meant to be an "investment." It's meant to be a hedge.

 

It won't matter if you only have an ounce of gold in 100 years, if next year, your entire net worth is wiped out because the US dollar trades at 1/1000000th what it does today (which actually happened...and worse...in Germany in 1923, and more recently in Zimbabwe and elsewhere.)

 

If I have $10 billion US, I'm quite wealthy..by today's measure. If, however, hyperinflation kicks in, that $10 billion could be worth what $1 is today...and I have lost everything. Paper, and now electronic, wealth can, and does, evaporate into thin air.

 

But gold doesn't do that.

[retrothecollector]

Buy this instead

http://www.lids.com/Melin/20709438