hey look - - a new thread about pressing!!

[Aman619]

seriously. I wondering if CGC has explored using paper thickness guages to measure the thickness of an entire comic book. It should be possible to judge a range of thickness for UNPRESSED comics, and use it to conclude that comics that mesure LESS THICK than this range have undergone pressing at some point.

 

heres a sample machine. I have used the small pocket-sized versions and they are very sensitive and accurate. If a comic book has been pressed, it doesnt need to become a pancake to register a noticeable difference with these devices.

 

I replaced this bad file with a smaller one 3 posts down...

[Ares]

what about comics that have been under stacks of other comics for years!

[Norrin_Radd]

!WARNING!

 

Extremely large PDF file that will crash PC.

 

!WARNING!

 

 

[Aman619]

that was a pdf screenshot.. heres a jpg version..

 

[Norrin_Radd]

 

Didn't I already mention having CGC use a gauge to measure thickness.

 

 

Interesting machine, Aman.

[Aman619]

what about comics that have been under stacks of other comics for years!

 

dont know. But I will assume that with research, measuring a few thousand comics from different eras, a reliable set of standards should develop. However, Id like to hear fron NearMint and others who admit to having had comics pressed a few details. Such as, if you want to remove cover creases, is just the cover somehow pressed while the staples are still intact? Or is the whole book pressed?

 

My point here is to find out whether CGC has tried using measuring devices and STILL cannot accurately pick out pressed books, or are they just eyeballing them..

[Aman619]

 

Didn't I already mention having CGC use a gauge to measure thickness.

 

 

Interesting machine, Aman.

 

it has been suggested that technology will someday invent a device, But printers have been using them for years.. Whers DiceX to tell us how reliable theyd be on a comicbook...

[PovertyRow]

seriously. I wondering if CGC has explored using paper thickness guages to measure the thickness of an entire comic book. It should be possible to judge a range of thickness for UNPRESSED comics, and use it to conclude that comics that mesure LESS THICK than this range have undergone pressing at some point.

 

heres a sample machine. I have used the small pocket-sized versions and they are very sensitive and accurate. If a comic book has been pressed, it doesnt need to become a pancake to register a noticeable difference with these devices.

 

Serious answer. I donlt think this is feasible.

 

First, there would have to be many different baselines for different publishers and ages. Both cover and interior stock would have to be factored in. Compare the paper stock interior and cover between, say, a Detective 16 and a Mister Mystery 9 and an Amazing Spiderman 120.

 

Second, environemntal condition would have to be factored in, as a more humid environment can very slightly increase page thickness due to absorbtion of moisture.

 

Third, as has been pointed out, storage conditions (were the books stacked like Church's or really squeezed into storgae boxes?) have to be considered.

 

Also, the fewer the pages the less accurate the measurement.

 

It is an interesting thought all right, but it is akin to determining trim simply by measuring the book.

 

Oh yeah - a press probably would not impact the thickness. You'd need a heck of a lot of pressure to compress a piece of paper. And even after the initial pressing period, the pages will "breathe" again (so to speak. Pressing is really about reforming the cellulose fibres to conform to a different shape more than a flatness. It is akin to tempering metal, where, after pounding the metal, applying the proper heat and then cooling it reforms the molecular structure of the metal to its original shape.

[Aman619]

seriously. I wondering if CGC has explored using paper thickness guages to measure the thickness of an entire comic book. It should be possible to judge a range of thickness for UNPRESSED comics, and use it to conclude that comics that mesure LESS THICK than this range have undergone pressing at some point.

 

heres a sample machine. I have used the small pocket-sized versions and they are very sensitive and accurate. If a comic book has been pressed, it doesnt need to become a pancake to register a noticeable difference with these devices.

 

Serious answer. I donlt think this is feasible.

 

First, there would have to be many different baselines for different publishers and ages. Both cover and interior stock would have to be factored in. Compare the paper stock interior and cover between, say, a Detective 16 and a Mister Mystery 9 and an Amazing Spiderman 120.

 

Second, environemntal condition would have to be factored in, as a more humid environment can very slightly increase page thickness due to absorbtion of moisture.

 

Third, as has been pointed out, storage conditions (were the books stacked like Church's or really squeezed into storgae boxes?) have to be considered.

 

Also, the fewer the pages the less accurate the measurement.

 

It is an interesting thought all right, but it is akin to determining trim simply by measuring the book.

 

Oh yeah - a press probably would not impact the thickness. You'd need a heck of a lot of pressure to compress a piece of paper. And even after the initial pressing period, the pages will "breathe" again (so to speak. Pressing is really about reforming the cellulose fibres to conform to a different shape more than a flatness. It is akin to tempering metal, where, after pounding the metal, applying the proper heat and then cooling it reforms the molecular structure of the metal to its original shape.

 

POV I respect your printing background and if you say it cant work, Ill buy that. BUT - - your reasons dont seem more than details

1) okay a set of widths would nneed to be determined for each era of printing, including cover stock etc. Ther havent been THAT many have there?

2) seems to me moisture makes comics wider. So far no one is complaining about comics that are too wide!!

3) Im guessing (or curious to know) whethet Church-pile like pressing is less, equal to or more pressure than a pressed comic. Arent you? Letsw test it out!

4) YES Comics have had different page counts over teh years. Just more details.

[scourge456789-migration]

Are you guys kidding ? CGC is in business to MAKE $$$$,..holding rulers to measure paper thickness is ridiculous....ont you see that ? In fact, IMO ,..this debate is silly,..if you are that neurotic about buying a pressed book,..u shouldnt be a collector of comic books,....it will lead to an early death. Look at it as an opportunity,..buy candidate books that can be pressed,..and get them re-slabbed,..remember,..every crisis holds an opportunity. Dupcake taught me that !

[Aman619]

ol duppy never needed a crisis to find an opportunity !!

[Red Hook]

Aman, sorry but I beat you to this suggestion about two weeks ago. I was looking at digital laser calipers on line, used to measure the thickness of coatings applied to metal surfaces and wondering whether a device like that could be used to measure the standard thickness of a book.

 

Ultimately, even if a book seemed much "less thick" than an average book, there would be no way to prove that it got that way by artificial pressing. But an interesting idea anyway. Glad we thought of it!

[scourge456789-migration]

ol duppy never needed a crisis to find an opportunity !!

 

 

This is true Annan,...I was referring to the crisis that developed once I learned all my books were something other than what I had thought,...I remember thinking,...I can either take the loss,..or I can pass them off as unrestored,...and if I doctored the scans to give higher grades,..I can get my true investment back,...this was in the early days of EBAY,...99',...needless to say,......JUSTICE WAS SERVED !

[Norrin_Radd]

This is true Annan,...

 

Koffy?!

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Think of pressing as a practice involving the use of a small iron....rather than an industrial press.

[PovertyRow]

POV I respect your printing background and if you say it cant work, Ill buy that. BUT - - your reasons dont seem more than details

1) okay a set of widths would need to be determined for each era of printing, including cover stock etc. Ther havent been THAT many have there?

2) seems to me moisture makes comics wider. So far no one is complaining about comics that are too wide!!

3) Im guessing (or curious to know) whethet Church-pile like pressing is less, equal to or more pressure than a pressed comic. Arent you? Letsw test it out!

4) YES Comics have had different page counts over teh years. Just more details.

 

Actually, Aman, this is not my printing background showing but my years of studying retoration and paper concerns. And these are not just details - you have to broaden your scope a bit.

 

1) There have been several. But you also have to keep in mind exactly what are you comparing? What is the baseline? The pressing candidates of concern today are going to be older books. So how are you going to choose WHICH copies of these older books will serve as a baseline? And if you say "an average of several samples", then that negates things right there because we are talking about very small variances compared to a standard. So how is the standard to be determined if you have to average variances? (Mainly because variances are what we are going to use to determine pressing.) Now from my printer's background, also keep in mind that the amount of ink laid onto a page or cover can vary as the print run continues. So how fine a difference are we talking?

 

2) Well, moisture can also makes paper thicker. Very slight but I think we are talking very slight here to read differences. Moisture will cause paper to slightly expand in thickness.

 

3) Church's stacks applied considerably more pressure than the average pressing. People tend to imagine tons of pounds per square inch but that just ain't the case. During my active restoration experiments I applied less pressure per square inch with my dry mount press than I did on my clothes with a hand iron. And the use of a book press (the old style press with a piece of wood and a big screw) are based more on time than pressure. Just moderate pressure OVER TIME, with gradual increases. But certainly nothing that would even impact the staples. It is more a reforming than a gangbuster attack.

 

4) The page count is not just another detail. If you are measuring the whole comic then a small percentage in a 64 pager is gonna show up as twice the percentage of a 32 pager. I included this but honestly forgot to elaborate on it. If this is the case, are you talking about measuring each individual page of the book or the book as a whole?

[DiceX]

I agree with POV. No way would it be accurate enough.

All of his points are valid, but I'll add a few more...

During the run, it would not be uncommon to run out of paper for the job.

The balance would be printed on "house" paper, or additional paper could be purchased from another publisher.

 

Other times the publisher will use various paper types and grades through the run.

Back in the newsprint days, comics were printed on the cheapest paper they could find.

[blowout]

I am assuming this is a joke?

[DiceX]

I am assuming this is a joke?

 

[blowout]

I am assuming this is a joke?

 

 

I am not always sure with aman...