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hey look - - a new thread about pressing!!

Started by Aman619,

50 posts in this topic

Aman619

Aman619

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Aman, sorry but I beat you to this suggestion about two weeks ago. I was looking at digital laser calipers on line, used to measure the thickness of coatings applied to metal surfaces and wondering whether a device like that could be used to measure the standard thickness of a book.

 

Ultimately, even if a book seemed much "less thick" than an average book, there would be no way to prove that it got that way by artificial pressing. But an interesting idea anyway. Glad we thought of it! 27_laughing.gif

 

Guess I missed your posr Red. Sorry old man! But I admit that my eyes tended to close up more than a few times keeping up with that last pressing thread. I used one of these pocket calipers recently and am always impressed with their sensitivity... as, as you did, felt they could be used to measure a pressed comic.

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Aman619

Aman619

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Actually, Aman, this is not my printing background showing but my years of studying retoration and paper concerns. And these are not just details - you have to broaden your scope a bit. smile.gif

 

 

I can quibble with some of your points, but, why bother? Overall, I think it could be worked out, but perhaps CGC could still say its not 100% and the status quo will prevail. But as so many have pointed out, fixing a comic book to LOOK better and GRADE better IS restoration and CGC mission, in partr, is to catch it. So any device that might help should be researched.

 

I had always assumed the whole book was pressed. But for anyone who feels NDP is NOT restoration, what do YOU call it when you send the comic to a guy who irons out the creases?

 

 

 

besides an easy way to make extra $$$$...

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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Actually, Aman, this is not my printing background showing but my years of studying retoration and paper concerns. And these are not just details - you have to broaden your scope a bit. smile.gif

 

 

I can quibble with some of your points, but, why bother? Overall, I think it could be worked out, but perhaps CGC could still say its not 100% and the status quo will prevail. But as so many have pointed out, fixing a comic book to LOOK better and GRADE better IS restoration and CGC mission, in partr, is to catch it. So any device that might help should be researched.

 

I had always assumed the whole book was pressed. But for anyone who feels NDP is NOT restoration, what do YOU call it when you send the comic to a guy who irons out the creases?

 

 

 

besides an easy way to make extra $$$$...

 

Well QUIBBLE, Aman. I am NOT posting this to prove you wrong. I am posting information based on my my experiences and knowledge. It is certainly not the end-all. If you have counterpoints please make them. Such discussions are not that common here and the more things like this, discussed in depth, are good for everyone! thumbsup2.gif

 

And I have always that most pressing should be conisdered restoration. The only pressing I don't is where a slight bend or curl can be undone with the fingers.

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Aman619

Aman619

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I know you love a good meaty argument/discussion!! Ive read many you participated in. I just dont feel up to it, sorry. Im still smarting by how people thought I was kidding!!! sniff choke sigh Also, if NDP is mostly ironing the cover or pages, the book isnt going to get any thinner, is it? I have repeatedly heard posters call pressed books pancakes and I obviously took that literally. I guess you can tell I have never had a book pressed, but I have unfolded a few corners back.

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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I know you love a good meaty argument/discussion!! Ive read many you participated in. I just dont feel up to it, sorry. Im still smarting by how people thought I was kidding!!! sniff choke sigh Also, if NDP is mostly ironing the cover or pages, the book isnt going to get any thinner, is it? I have repeatedly heard posters call pressed books pancakes and I obviously took that literally. I guess you can tell I have never had a book pressed, but I have unfolded a few corners back.

 

Actually, Aman, when I got here and started hearing about pressing I thought in terms of full book pressing myself. It took some folks here pointing out that even a corner of a cover press was what they were including before I got it. TYo me, the "flatter than a pancake" calls are overexaggerated both in effect and frequency. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

And I never thought you were kidding. The thought crossed my mind as well and I started arguing with myself, so to speak, and came up with what I replied with.

 

But, as Froderick said, those could be just "the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind!" smile.gif

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burntboy

burntboy

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Oh yeah - a press probably would not impact the thickness. You'd need a heck of a lot of pressure to compress a piece of paper. And even after the initial pressing period, the pages will "breathe" again (so to speak. Pressing is really about reforming the cellulose fibres to conform to a different shape more than a flatness. It is akin to tempering metal, where, after pounding the metal, applying the proper heat and then cooling it reforms the molecular structure of the metal to its original shape.

 

POV, i find this comment QUITE interesting!!!

 

what about all the RANTERS who swear that the books have been squashed so that it looks like the characters eyeballs are popping out?!?! (my personal favorite). or the constant references to "books that look like pancakes"?!?! or the newer "IHOP" references?!?!

 

i read your comment as suggesting that even after intense pressure, the pages may lie flatter in spots (where there was creasing/indentations/etc.) but will NOT NECESSARILY be any thinner...........

 

care to comment further?? thanks..........looking forward to meeting you in San Fran next month......... grin.gif

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Ze-man

Ze-man

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Just a guess on my part.. but I imagine BA, and SA books lend themselves to looking flat as a pancake..or the Ihop thing, over a fat, puffy GA book.

 

What is the average # of pages in a GA book..versus... a BA/SA book.

I know the paper is thicker in a GA book, but are there also more pages?

 

Ze-

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Red Hook

Red Hook

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When you get right down to it, I suspect there are a ton of variables that could affect the thickness of a book, including humidity levels, natural stacking etc....so ultimately the thickness of a book might not tell you that much.

 

Red

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burntboy

burntboy

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Just a guess on my part.. but I imagine BA, and SA books lend themselves to looking flat as a pancake..or the Ihop thing, over a fat, puffy GA book.

 

What is the average # of pages in a GA book..versus... a BA/SA book.

I know the paper is thicker in a GA book, but are there also more pages?

 

Ze-

 

i vaguely remember "atomic age" books all touting 52 pages!!!!!!! pretty sure many GA books had 68 pages.

 

i'm just thinking about all the comments that definitely suggested that the books were flatter (visible to the naked eye) as opposed to what POV postured earlier.

 

(i'm thinking Hammer, Marnin and Lou Fine mostly, as the folks i recall having made these statements). and being young and naive, i tended to believe them - but now i'm not so sure............ 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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Oh yeah - a press probably would not impact the thickness. You'd need a heck of a lot of pressure to compress a piece of paper. And even after the initial pressing period, the pages will "breathe" again (so to speak. Pressing is really about reforming the cellulose fibres to conform to a different shape more than a flatness. It is akin to tempering metal, where, after pounding the metal, applying the proper heat and then cooling it reforms the molecular structure of the metal to its original shape.

 

POV, i find this comment QUITE interesting!!!

 

what about all the RANTERS who swear that the books have been squashed so that it looks like the characters eyeballs are popping out?!?! (my personal favorite). or the constant references to "books that look like pancakes"?!?! or the newer "IHOP" references?!?!

 

i read your comment as suggesting that even after intense pressure, the pages may lie flatter in spots (where there was creasing/indentations/etc.) but will NOT NECESSARILY be any thinner...........

 

care to comment further?? thanks..........looking forward to meeting you in San Fran next month......... grin.gif

 

Yo Burnt (may I CALL you Burnt?) grin.gif

 

As I said the "flatter than a pancake" calls are overexaggerated both in effect and frequency. That is my opinion and I stick to it Dagnabbit.

 

But! You have to remember all of my restoration training and studying was via professional means - so if someone decided to run a steamroller over the comic - honestly cannot comment on that. But I know of no professional restorer that would cause such a thing. As I also said, the amount of pressure to press a properly prepared page or cover is less than the amount od pressure you use to iron your clothes!

 

So don;t read my comment that after "intense pressure: etc etc. I know of no pro restorer that would use such. I confess to being a bit lax with my words. By "a lot of pressure" I was thinking in terms of the book press, which WILL aplly a lot more pressure than is needed by either a dry-mount press or a hand heat burnisher. And the pressure is gradual, over time, and controlled. No humongous massive BAM! grin.gif

 

As far as read your comment as suggesting that even after intense pressure, the pages may lie flatter in spots (where there was creasing/indentations/etc.) but will NOT NECESSARILY be any thinner.......... OK - I am at a bit of a loss here. Was that Ron Rico taling? Can you just copy/patse what I said that made you think that?

 

I thank you! smile.gifhi.gif

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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I will add at this point that those "flatter than a pancake" comment stuck in my mind too, and prompted this caliper suggestion.

 

Aman, I hear you. And I really did consider the caliper idea some time back because it seemed a real possibility. But when I ran things through my brain and I came up with a lot of thing I realized.

 

But dang - you certainly be thinking outside the envelope!

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