Superhero movies and the Oscars 2 2

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, Oddball said:

Endgame should take visual effects easily and Joker will take a couple. Joker will not win Best Picture but Phoenix has a shot at Best Actor. Best Director? Nope, not for being Scorsese Light.

'Scorsese light' seems to be a fixation with some all Todd Phillips did was dust off an old Martin Scorsese -script. Yet when you listen to Joaquin Phoenix's praise, there was much more involved there that gets glossed over.

Dismissing him because of the Scorsese influence may miss what made this all come together.

[▫️]

12 minutes ago, Oddball said:

Everything in his directing style shows the influence. From camera angles, cinematography and even color palette shows he either copied Scorsese directly or is just paying tribute. He has never filmed this way before. 

I will add that I’m also fine with this, since I’m a fan of Scorsese’s style. I’m glad Joker had the influence it did and affected people but without Phoenix’s performance, the story itself co-written by Todd and Scott Silver is just good. Not great. 

[Bosco685]

7 hours ago, Oddball said:

I will add that I’m also fine with this, since I’m a fan of Scorsese’s style. I’m glad Joker had the influence it did and affected people but without Phoenix’s performance, the story itself co-written by Todd and Scott Silver is just good. Not great. 

I think if you go back and watch Taxi Driver, which supposedly dominated the theme of Joker, you may find out the story isn't even the same.

- Robert De Niro turns into a psychotic taxi drive due to all the breakdown he sees around him

- He first fixates on Cybill Shepherd as a potential love interest, which doesn't move forward

- He then fixates on Jodie Foster as an underage prostitute, who he rescues from her pimp and from the man running the hotel

- In the end, De Niro lives and goes back to taxi driving while Jodie Foster goes back to her family who are thankful to Travis (De Niro's character)

With the style, kind of reminds me of Scorsese. But then kind of not, as Joker is much more focused on how the events of Gotham directly impact Arthur as he mentally breaks down. But to each their own on what they perceive as similar stories and approaches.

[@therealsilvermane]

39 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I think if you go back and watch Taxi Driver, which supposedly dominated the theme of Joker, you may find out the story isn't even the same.

- Robert De Niro turns into a psychotic taxi drive due to all the breakdown he sees around him

- He first fixates on Cybill Shepherd as a potential love interest, which doesn't move forward

- He then fixates on Jodie Foster as an underage prostitute, who he rescues from her pimp and from the man running the hotel

- In the end, De Niro lives and goes back to taxi driving while Jodie Foster goes back to her family who are thankful to Travis (De Niro's character)

With the style, kind of reminds me of Scorsese. But then kind of not, as Joker is much more focused on how the events of Gotham directly impact Arthur as he mentally breaks down. But to each their own on what they perceive as similar stories and approaches.

Joker was in part a mix of styles and plot lines from Scorsese films Taxi Driver and King of Comedy. Closer in style and main character traits to Taxi Driver and a little closer in plot to King of Comedy. Throw in a little Dark Knight Returns #3, mix it up, and you have Joker, the final product not being as masterful as the three previous ingredients, but still a fine mess.

Edited January 21, 2020 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Joker was in part a mix of styles and plot lines from Scorsese films Taxi Driver and King of Comedy. Closer in style and main character traits to Taxi Driver and a little closer in plot to King of Comedy. Throw in a little Dark Knight Returns #3, mix it up, and you have Joker, the final product not being as masterful as the three previous ingredients, but still a fine mess.

A fine mess, like Captain Marvel? 

It was more like King of Comedy. But then not with the mother involvement formerly working for Wayne, the societal breakdown leading to Arthur's further illness, and the big villain reveal. 

A mess of an award-winner. Right? 

[@therealsilvermane]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

A fine mess, like Captain Marvel? 

It was more like King of Comedy. But then not with the mother involvement formerly working for Wayne, the societal breakdown leading to Arthur's further illness, and the big villain reveal. 

A mess of an award-winner. Right? 

I’d say Travis Bickle and Arthur Fleck were similar in the way the world treated them helped contribute to their breakdown.Travis was continually being let down by those around him as he reached out, whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater, Betsy, Wizard(Peter Boyle), etc.  Arthur Fleck was also being let down as he reached out to his therapist, his co-workers, his mother, and Thomas Wayne. 

When Travis could no longer rely on those he reached out to to save him, he found purpose in trying to save someone else, Iris, with violent results. When Arthur could no longer rely on those he reached out to to save him, he found solace in letting go and revenge on those who hurt him. And as in Taxi Driver and King of Comedy, Arthur was hailed a folk hero in the end by the world around him because all three lived in a modern world of media, hype, sensationalism, and the next big thing. And that was represented in Taxi Driver by the political campaign and newspapers, in King of Comedy by the Jerry Langford Show, and in Joker by 24 hour news and DeNiro’s late show.

Edited January 21, 2020 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

8 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I’d say Travis Bickle and Arthur Fleck were similar in the way the world treated them helped contribute to their breakdown.Travis was continually being let down by those around him as he reached out, whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater, Betsy, Wizard(Peter Boyle), etc.  Arthur Fleck was also being let down as he reached out to his therapist, his co-workers, his mother, and Thomas Wayne. 

When Travis could no longer rely on those he reached out to to save him, he found purpose in trying to save someone else, Iris, with violent results. When Arthur could no longer rely on those he reached out to to save him, he found solace in letting go and revenge on those who hurt him. And as in Taxi Driver and King of Comedy, Arthur was hailed a folk hero in the end by the world around him because all three lived in a modern world of media, hype, sensationalism, and the next big thing. And that was represented in Taxi Driver by the political campaign and newspapers, in King of Comedy by the Jerry Langford Show, and in Joker by 24 hour news and DeNiro’s late show.

'whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater...'

You dug deep with that one to support your 'a fine mess' which is really what you wanted to get to. I guess if you watched Taxi Driver recently versus using Wiki to fuel your debate/hate, you would remember Travis Bickle gets his job as a taxi driver when he applies for the job at the beginning of the film due to stating he is a former Marine. To which the dispatcher shares he is a former Marine too. Which lands him the job. You know - the guy that everyone lets down. And with Betsy (Cybill Shepherd), unlike the Joker film Travis actually landed the girl - for real. But then due to his social awkwardness with women he takes her to a porn theater for entertainment.

But again if you had actually watched Taxi Driver versus attempting to arm yourself with a few details so as to detract from Joker, you would also remember Travis had three taxi driver friends throughout the film. One of which was Wizard (Peter Boyle). So he did have male companionship to touch base with throughout his experiences. What tips him over the edge is seeing Jodie Foster as a kid prostitute, which makes him purchase an arsenal of pistols, giving her funds to escape and killing to free her from her captors. You know - altruistic purposes. How do I know this? I watched Taxi Driver before seeing Joker because it came up so much as an influence, and then once again because it was coming up as a direct copy for Joker. Which it wasn't.

Now again, The King of Comedy is more an influence for Joker with his partial fixation on Murray Franklin (Robert De Niro). But then again, not. As in Joker what we forget is Arthur is actually engaging with people through his clown role. Whether it is children at the hospital, or people on the street he feels are being reached with comedy as he advertises. Rupert Pupkin, meanwhile, is much more a mixed introvert who desires to entertain others. But his sickness is so deep, it helps him become entertaining through his conviction to be the comedian he dreams when he takes over Jerry Langford's show (Jerry Lewis). And this leads to his arrest, but also what we are shown to be his new fame with the publication of a book and news outlets talking about what he did endlessly. We never find out if it was all real or not. But far from the same results as in Joker. Including the new fame as an entertainer.

'whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater...'

You are too funny.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

'whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater...'

You dug deep with that one to support your 'a fine mess' which is really what you wanted to get to. I guess if you watched Taxi Driver recently versus using Wiki to fuel your debate/hate, you would remember Travis Bickle gets his job as a taxi driver when he applies for the job at the beginning of the film due to stating he is a former Marine. To which the dispatcher shares he is a former Marine too. Which lands him the job. You know - the guy that everyone lets down. And with Betsy (Cybill Shepherd), unlike the Joker film Travis actually landed the girl - for real. But then due to his social awkwardness with women he takes her to a porn theater for entertainment.

But again if you had actually watched Taxi Driver versus attempting to arm yourself with a few details so as to detract from Joker, you would also remember Travis had three taxi driver friends throughout the film. One of which was Wizard (Peter Boyle). So he did have male companionship to touch base with throughout his experiences. What tips him over the edge is seeing Jodie Foster as a kid prostitute, which makes him purchase an arsenal of pistols, giving her funds to escape and killing to free her from her captors. You know - altruistic purposes. How do I know this? I watched Taxi Driver before seeing Joker because it came up so much as an influence, and then once again because it was coming up as a direct copy for Joker. Which it wasn't.

Now again, The King of Comedy is more an influence for Joker with his partial fixation on Murray Franklin (Robert De Niro). But then again, not. As in Joker what we forget is Arthur is actually engaging with people through his clown role. Whether it is children at the hospital, or people on the street he feels are being reached with comedy as he advertises. Rupert Pupkin, meanwhile, is much more a mixed introvert who desires to entertain others. But his sickness is so deep, it helps him become entertaining through his conviction to be the comedian he dreams when he takes over Jerry Langford's show (Jerry Lewis). And this leads to his arrest, but also what we are shown to be his new fame with the publication of a book and news outlets talking about what he did endlessly. We never find out if it was all real or not. But far from the same results as in Joker. Including the new fame as an entertainer.

'whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater...'

You are too funny.

Obviously you don’t know me personally cause if you did you’d know that, at one time, I was probably the biggest Scorsese-phile on the planet. It’s quite legendary among my small circle what a Scorsese nut I used to be. I’ve seen Taxi Driver more than any other movie as that was my favorite movie. It defined cinema for me. I’ve since moved on from the dated cynicism and sensationalism of that movie because I grew up and discovered better cinema. I admit I haven’t seen Taxi Driver in a few years but I don’t need to. Like Raiders of the Lost Ark, I can probably recite the movie from my brain.

Paul Schrader wrote Taxi Driver. He’s the guy who made that Breathless remake but also has written at length about film theory and other nonsense. There are no throw away moments in his --script/movie. The scene with Diane Abbott’s porn theater concession girl, while small and yes kind of funny, is a significant scene. It does represent Travis’s first attempt to cure his incurable self-inflicted loneliness by reaching out to a woman. He actually asks her out and she reacts by yelling for the manager to which Travis retreats to his lonely world and the emptiness of the porn theater. The closest parallel scene to that in Joker is when Arthur reaches out to the young boy on the train to make him laugh and the mother tells Arthur to leave her child alone. Yes, Travis gets further along with Cybil Shepard’s Betsy, but also falls harder because he came so close to an actual meaningful relationship with a woman and thus retreats further into the loneliness and delusion of his mind.

Both Arthur and Travis develop relationships with their male co-workers which lead nowhere and both “heroes” being on their own. In both movies, co-workers also lead to each getting a gun to react to the violence they see in the world with equal violence.

Joker, on the surface, is a rip-off of King of Comedy because of the stand up comedian and delusional elements of the main character living with his mother. Digging deeper, because of the parallel “character development” of Travis and Arthur in a violent New York City/Gotham City, Joker is a bigger ripoff of Taxi Driver. Seriously.

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

14 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Obviously you don’t know me personally cause if you did you’d know that, at one time, I was probably the biggest Scorsese-phile on the planet. It’s quite legendary among my small circle what a Scorsese nut I used to be. I’ve seen Taxi Driver more than any other movie as that was my favorite movie. It defined cinema for me. I’ve since moved on from the dated cynicism and sensationalism of that movie because I grew up and discovered better cinema. I admit I haven’t seen Taxi Driver in a few years but I don’t need to. Like Raiders of the Lost Ark, I can probably recite the movie from my brain.

Paul Schrader wrote Taxi Driver. He’s the guy who made that Breathless remake but also has written at length about film theory and other nonsense. There are no throw away moments in his ---script/movie. The scene with Diane Abbott’s porn theater concession girl, while small and yes kind of funny, is a significant scene. It does represent Travis’s first attempt to cure his incurable self-inflicted loneliness by reaching out to a woman. He actually asks her out and she reacts by yelling for the manager to which Travis retreats to his lonely world and the emptiness of the porn theater. The closest parallel scene to that in Joker is when Arthur reaches out to the young boy on the train to make him laugh and the mother tells Arthur to leave her child alone. Yes, Travis gets further along with Cybil Shepard’s Betsy, but also falls harder because he came so close to an actual meaningful relationship with a woman and thus retreats further into the loneliness and delusion of his mind.

Both Arthur and Travis develop relationships with their male co-workers which lead nowhere and both “heroes” being on their own. In both movies, co-workers also lead to each getting a gun to react to the violence they see in the world with equal violence.

Joker, on the surface, is a rip-off of King of Comedy because of the stand up comedian and delusional elements of the main character living with his mother. Digging deeper, because of the parallel “character development” of Travis and Arthur in a violent New York City/Gotham City, Joker is a bigger ripoff of Taxi Driver. Seriously.

'whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater...'. 

It has been years for you, as Travis doesn't ask her out. He asks the concession girl what her name is. And as she dismisses this to ask what else he needs, Travis asks for her name again, insistently. That is when she calls for her supervisor. He never asks her out on a date. But of course, you are such a fan you can recite each line in the film. Right?

Just admit you wanted to once again hate on Joker because it is a WB/DC film which you called a mess before (as if you saw it). Then threw out misquotes and misstatements based on your Wiki searches to further justify what you had stated. Kind of like when you attempted to portray Shazam as being a semi-racist film when the Asian child actor hits himself with the nuncucks. So in your mind, they were purposely belittling minorities in the film. How you landed there is a crazy ride in itself.

'whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater...'. 

[@therealsilvermane]

16 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

'whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater...'. 

It has been years for you, as Travis doesn't ask her out. He asks the concession girl what her name is. And as she dismisses this to ask what else he needs, Travis asks for her name again, insistently. That is when she calls for her supervisor. He never asks her out on a date. But of course, you are such a fan you can recite each line in the film. Right?

Just admit you wanted to once again hate on Joker because it is a WB/DC film which you called a mess before (as if you saw it). Then threw out misquotes and misstatements based on your Wiki searches to further justify what you had stated. Kind of like when you attempted to portray Shazam as being a semi-racist film when the Asian child actor hits himself with the nuncucks. So in your mind, they were purposely belittling minorities in the film. How you landed there is a crazy ride in itself.

'whether it was the concession girl at the XXX theater...'. 

When I called Joker “a fine mess,” I was actually kind of complimenting the movie. What could be more appropriate than a movie about Joker to be a mess? I honestly see the movie as this mish-mash of stuff. I liked the movie. It did drag a bit for me in the beginning but really really picked up for me once Arthur goes full Joker. I was a little confused with the intent of the movie. Was I watching a major comic book movie? Was I watching a pseudo-art house movie? Was I watching a social message of the dangers of not taking insanity seriously? And wasn’t this made by that guy who made those Hungover flicks?  Am I supposed to take any of this seriously? Like I said, for me, Joker was a FINE mess.

Obviously the Oscars love Joker. I mean, the Oscars exist so that Hollywood can sleep at night and feel better about themselves as they peddle society with formula and factory products, “see? we make ‘art’, too.” After being accused by Scorsese, Copplolla, and other fortune seekers of filling movie theaters with nothing but comic book movies, Hollywood can say “see? we made Joker!” LOL

[Bosco685]

59 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

When I called Joker “a fine mess,” I was actually kind of complimenting the movie. What could be more appropriate than a movie about Joker to be a mess? I honestly see the movie as this mish-mash of stuff. I liked the movie. It did drag a bit for me in the beginning but really really picked up for me once Arthur goes full Joker. I was a little confused with the intent of the movie. Was I watching a major comic book movie? Was I watching a pseudo-art house movie? Was I watching a social message of the dangers of not taking insanity seriously? And wasn’t this made by that guy who made those Hungover flicks?  Am I supposed to take any of this seriously? Like I said, for me, Joker was a FINE mess.

Obviously the Oscars love Joker. I mean, the Oscars exist so that Hollywood can sleep at night and feel better about themselves as they peddle society with formula and factory products, “see? we make ‘art’, too.” After being accused by Scorsese, Copplolla, and other fortune seekers of filling movie theaters with nothing but comic book movies, Hollywood can say “see? we made Joker!” LOL

I guess referring to a film repeatedly as a 'hot mess' is a compliment. Somewhere in the world. 

Meanwhile, you attempted to detract from the film by implying all it did was copy Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, while throwing in the briefest of comic book references. It's a thought. Inaccurate, but a thought nonetheless. 

More than the Oscars have appreciated Joker. Which is great for the comic book genre. Especially the breadth and depth of the recognition now.

[Bosco685]

41 films nominated in 91 categories leading to 13 of those films winning 19 Oscars.

[Bosco685]

[Bosco685]

Quote

Spider-Man: No Way Home has landed in a web of criticism surrounding the upcoming Oscars and the Academy’s decision to honor Twitter users’ favorite film during the March 27 telecast. It’s easy to imagine that the Academy chose to spotlight the social media favorite in hopes of fans of the film tuning in. As it stands, No Way Home, the sixth-highest-grossing movie of all time, is a frontrunner for the recognition. The film has a sole nomination for best visual effects, meaning a trip to the podium is hardly assured, given that only one Marvel movie has prevailed in the category: Sam Raimi’s groundbreaking 2004 sequel, Spider-Man 2.

 

“My proudest moment was seeing audiences respond to the train sequence because we had just struggled with it,” Stokdyk says.

 

Dykstra remains proud of the filmmakers’ innovations, including their commitment to studying not only the way Spidey himself would swing through the city, but also having the camera’s mid-air point of view adhere to real-world physics.

 

Dykstra explains, “What we had to do was avoid making the CGI call attention to itself because ultimately this is a story about personalities and events, and not about technology.”

 

[Bosco685]

Quote

In line with the Academy’s move to reinvigorate the show, the Oscars may be available to stream in 2023, with Variety reporting Kramer and Yang have discussed “exploring extensions of the show on streaming.” A live-streaming option would definitely require the live television experts the Academy has emphasized hiring this year, as it is unknown territory for the awards show. A live option could also lend more time to better honor craft category winners, which the Academy faced backlash for not announcing live at the ceremony this year.

 

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

[Larryw7]

Someone was pissed off that she didn't win an Oscar the other night.

[Bosco685]

I have a feeling Across The Spider-Verse may be the potential single candidate - but it lost out to The Boy and The Heron in the Best Motion Picture – Animated category.

[Bosco685]