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Is this really a Rocky Mountain Pedigree

Started by Bomber-Bob,

21 posts in this topic

Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted

This book just sold in the recent Comiclink auction. In the interest of maintaining the integrity of a pedigree, I question whether this book is a genuine RM pedigree.

- The original graded RM pedigree, which is still in the CGC registry, was a 9.0 OW/W.

- The 'B' on the cover of this book looks familiar. 'There is a high grade DC collection floating around, I have a copy or two myself, with this distinctive 'B' on the cover. I don't recall seeing any RM with a 'B' on the cover before ?

Here is a link to a similar 'B' book, above the U in the title ...

http://www.myslabbedcomics.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=11069&GSub=893

- The grade date on this book is 8/27/2014. It appears that all the other books in this CGC submission were graded 7/12/2102. How does that happen ?

 

Understanding that books get resubbed and increase in grade, there is still some funny things going on here. I would love to hear from CGC on this.

 

 

RAD213A720141021_141036.jpg

 

 

 

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Gotham Kid

Gotham Kid

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Posted

I used to own several highest graded Marvel SA First issues RM books and none had any writing whatsoever. I recall going over most of the RM books when CL brought them to market. Many were subsequently pressed for grade bumps. I don't recall any with writing on them.

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

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Could you please explain "all the other books in this CGC submission"

 

Thank you

 

Just to state one other obvious possibility, there are often dupes of books in peds

 

The cert of this book is 1076433006. Looking at other books in the 1076433... submission you can see that this book was graded over two years later from the others.

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

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I used to own several highest graded Marvel SA First issues RM books and none had any writing whatsoever. I recall going over most of the RM books when CL brought them to market. Many were subsequently pressed for grade bumps. I don't recall any with writing on them.

 

I remember when the RM pedigree came to market and I don't recall seeing any distinctive markings either. Thanks for validating.

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

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PM october- he's the one who was selling the B books, he might remember if there was a GL #39

 

Yes, you are correct. Though I suspect he did not submit this book and sold it raw, it's worth a try.

BTW, if I remember correctly, some of the 'B' books had multiple copies.

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

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FYI, I posted this to ASK CGC, hoping for someone at CGC to look at this. I'm not trying to cause trouble, I just believe the integrity of Pedigrees should be maintained. In the 'early days' of CGC you could not simply say a book was pedigree, you had to provide some documentation,minimally where you got it from, what dealer, etc. In this case, there already was a copy on the census. The 9.0 copy is still on the census which means the old label was not submitted with the book. I also would like to know how one specific book in a submission was graded more than two years after the others. I have seen that before. How does that happen? Hopefully CGC will respond to my Ask CGC questions.

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Brian48

Brian48

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Posted
You can tell which RM books were pressed. Those that no longer have the RM sticker on the slab.

 

One of my books. Won in the CL auction along with #1, also a 9.8

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/Image/NewsImage/4/145889/574102/7

 

Not always the best indicator. I absolutely hated the CL sticker on the front and peeled them off all my RMs.

 

Looking back, I'm thinking I should have left them on as they really made the slab identifiable.

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Sqeggs

Sqeggs

Posted
Posted
FYI, I posted this to ASK CGC, hoping for someone at CGC to look at this. I'm not trying to cause trouble, I just believe the integrity of Pedigrees should be maintained. In the 'early days' of CGC you could not simply say a book was pedigree, you had to provide some documentation,minimally where you got it from, what dealer, etc. In this case, there already was a copy on the census. The 9.0 copy is still on the census which means the old label was not submitted with the book. I also would like to know how one specific book in a submission was graded more than two years after the others. I have seen that before. How does that happen? Hopefully CGC will respond to my Ask CGC questions.

 

Good luck. I would be willing to bet that they will ignore your question, as they've ignored similar questions from me.

 

Unfortunately, how pedigree copies are verified is another of those areas where CGC doesn't embrace transparency -- to say the least.

 

 

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jimjum12

jimjum12

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The first wave of Rocky Mountains were simply called "original owner" and comprised of early ASM , not sure if there were others..... this was before Clink was able to get the collection certified as a pedigree. They had some sort of offer to sticker the earlier ones and have the slab label changed if the new owners chose to send them in..... As for the "B"....... I never saw any with one and it's likely a label typo. I would wonder if there may have been some RM's in the same submission ? GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

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As for the "B"....... I never saw any with one and it's likely a label typo. I would wonder if there may have been some RM's in the same submission ? GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, regarding other RM's in the same submission, I thought of that also. However, I did not see any other RM's in the submission of 1076433... The fact that this specific book was graded over two years later than the other books in the submission befuddles me. Something strange is going on here. I hope CGC responds. It's really not a big deal, nothing embarrassing or controversial, just strange.

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jimjum12

jimjum12

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As for the "B"....... I never saw any with one and it's likely a label typo. I would wonder if there may have been some RM's in the same submission ? GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, regarding other RM's in the same submission, I thought of that also. However, I did not see any other RM's in the submission of 1076433... The fact that this specific book was graded over two years later than the other books in the submission befuddles me. Something strange is going on here. I hope CGC responds. It's really not a big deal, nothing embarrassing or controversial, just strange.

 

One thing I know..... but I'm not sure exactly how the details work..... is that certain very large consignors keep a specific serial number sequence for quite a some time, while a regular submitter like you or I will have the sequence continue turning over. An example is the Heritage 091********* serial sequence that has been a fixture with their site for several years now.... I would imagine something of that nature has accounted for the time lapse. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

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As for the "B"....... I never saw any with one and it's likely a label typo. I would wonder if there may have been some RM's in the same submission ? GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, regarding other RM's in the same submission, I thought of that also. However, I did not see any other RM's in the submission of 1076433... The fact that this specific book was graded over two years later than the other books in the submission befuddles me. Something strange is going on here. I hope CGC responds. It's really not a big deal, nothing embarrassing or controversial, just strange.

 

One thing I know..... but I'm not sure exactly how the details work..... is that certain very large consignors keep a specific serial number sequence for quite a some time, while a regular submitter like you or I will have the sequence continue turning over. An example is the Heritage 091********* serial sequence that has been a fixture with their site for several years now.... I would imagine something of that nature has accounted for the time lapse. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, yes, I think that participating dealers will have their dealer number as the first three numbers in their submissions. However, here we are talking about the full seven digits, which is a specific submission, being the same. The last three digits are simply the sequential numbering of the books in that submission. One possibility is that a reholder request will retain the same cert but the grade date will change. (shrug)

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jimjum12

jimjum12

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As for the "B"....... I never saw any with one and it's likely a label typo. I would wonder if there may have been some RM's in the same submission ? GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, regarding other RM's in the same submission, I thought of that also. However, I did not see any other RM's in the submission of 1076433... The fact that this specific book was graded over two years later than the other books in the submission befuddles me. Something strange is going on here. I hope CGC responds. It's really not a big deal, nothing embarrassing or controversial, just strange.

 

One thing I know..... but I'm not sure exactly how the details work..... is that certain very large consignors keep a specific serial number sequence for quite a some time, while a regular submitter like you or I will have the sequence continue turning over. An example is the Heritage 091********* serial sequence that has been a fixture with their site for several years now.... I would imagine something of that nature has accounted for the time lapse. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, yes, I think that participating dealers will have their dealer number as the first three numbers in their submissions. However, here we are talking about the full seven digits, which is a specific submission, being the same. The last three digits are simply the sequential numbering of the books in that submission. One possibility is that a reholder request will retain the same cert but the grade date will change. (shrug)

 

..... that would be the final piece of the puzzle...... and perhaps a group of RM's were reholdered immediately prior and a typo was made. GOD BLESS...

 

 

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