No market for Spectre?

[october]

Guide value should be the AVERAGE of what collectors are willing to pay for a book. If the book is a common book then eBay sales, Convention sales, LCS sales, etc. should be combined to get to GUIDE PRICE.

 

That said, it is very rare indeed when people pay guide or above for common issues in mid-grade unless they ABSOLUTELY have the book right then. Should that sale be factored in, of course, but that NOW be considered GUIDE.

 

As much as we all grew up using Overstreet Price Guide, there was not any year where I can remember where some advisors thought that mid-grade books shouldn't be lower.

 

And more so, if you go to a convention and there are BOXES AND BOXES of MID-GRADE books NOT SELLING at guide or slightly less, then that means GUIDE IS TOO HIGH. Most of these books don't get ANY ATTENTION (unlike true HG which will at least get attention even if the price is very high).

 

Yep, I agree. I think guide is way too high for mid-grade stuff....most likely over valued by at least 25-35% at minimum. My point was that eBay does not represent the entire market as people sometimes forget. I personally would pay a good 20-30% more for the same book at a con or store, simply because I can hold the book in my hand. Not to mention the fact that I can avoid the eBay overgrade, shipping costs, ect. If OS is meant to reflect true market value, and market value is an arm's length transaction between two willing parties with knowledge, eBay might not be the best measure for MV. I think everyone here has been on the short end of the stick when it comes to not being fully informed as to the item's defects, grade, ect...all of which would undermine the "knowledge" requirement. This lack of full disclosure often results is relatively low prices due to people "hedging their bets" grade wise. Do I think mids are overvalued in OS? Yes. Do I think that OS should lower their values based primarily on eBay auction results? Absolutely not.

[FlyingDonut]

I have been dealing comics since 1977. In that entire 28 year period, the price point for mid-grade Silver Age has been essentially 45-60% of Guide, whatever Guide is, and I've sold lots and lots of mid-grade Silver Age. High grade? Guide and above. VERY low grade? Guide. Mid-grade? Half-Guide. Overstreet is consistently high here, no matter what the venue.

[ninanina]

Herb,

 

I think Donut was eluding to the fact that Ebay or no, these books do not move at guide (the Spectres) in mid grade.

 

Hows the snow

 

At least the 30 below days are behind us.

 

There are dealers out there that will not sell a comic for less than guide unless they have multiples of a common issue. That's a huge reason why I don't subscribe to the e-bay prices being realistic. (among others)

 

One of their biggest concerns is the time/money involved in replacing the comic at a fraction of what he sold it for. They realize that everything has it's price and will be sold eventually. So, they would rather have the comic in stock until someone wants it bad enough @ guide, than sell it and worry about replacing it in their inventory.

 

You would, mind you....need a huge inventory to do this....but they do.

 

They also know what sells and in what condition. Generally speaking...they love getting low-grade or NM Silver Age, Hi-grade (NM or better) Bronze Age. Toughest movers right now are Silver and Bronze in VF-VF+ at guide....but it's definitely done ... by at least one guy I know of.

 

There's always someone out there willing to pay guide for any comic. Just a matter of time.

 

And I also agree that many other dealers have a different philosophy that also works.

[october]

Oh, I know. I've been selling comics on eBay going on 9 years. It's just whenever I buy a comic, it seems to go for near guide. And when I sell, it goes for less than half. If only I could find the great deals that my customers are finding.

 

And the two books sold for $14 + $3 shipping (I combined). So $17 total. 50% guide would have been $27. They got it for 31%, less than 1/3 guide, after shipping. If I could buy my midgrade books at that discount, I'd buy all day long.

 

What do you want? I can get you mid-grade DCs from that vintage ALL DAY LONG and you can buy them at that discount. You want to replace those Spectres? Anything else?

 

If you can get me BA DCs at 30-50% guide in 7.0-8.5 send me a PM, would love to do some business.

[FlyingDonut]

Oh, I know. I've been selling comics on eBay going on 9 years. It's just whenever I buy a comic, it seems to go for near guide. And when I sell, it goes for less than half. If only I could find the great deals that my customers are finding.

 

And the two books sold for $14 + $3 shipping (I combined). So $17 total. 50% guide would have been $27. They got it for 31%, less than 1/3 guide, after shipping. If I could buy my midgrade books at that discount, I'd buy all day long.

 

What do you want? I can get you mid-grade DCs from that vintage ALL DAY LONG and you can buy them at that discount. You want to replace those Spectres? Anything else?

 

If you can get me BA DCs at 30-50% guide in 7.0-8.5 send me a PM, would love to do some business.

 

1. That's not mid-grade

2. That's not that vintage.

 

but besides that, let me know.

[october]

Oh, I know. I've been selling comics on eBay going on 9 years. It's just whenever I buy a comic, it seems to go for near guide. And when I sell, it goes for less than half. If only I could find the great deals that my customers are finding.

 

And the two books sold for $14 + $3 shipping (I combined). So $17 total. 50% guide would have been $27. They got it for 31%, less than 1/3 guide, after shipping. If I could buy my midgrade books at that discount, I'd buy all day long.

 

What do you want? I can get you mid-grade DCs from that vintage ALL DAY LONG and you can buy them at that discount. You want to replace those Spectres? Anything else?

 

If you can get me BA DCs at 30-50% guide in 7.0-8.5 send me a PM, would love to do some business.

 

1. That's not mid-grade

2. That's not that vintage.

 

but besides that, let me know.

 

What "vintage" are you talking about then? What do you consider mid-grade? High grade, mid-grade, ect don't have exact definitions. I am sure most people here would not consider 7.0-8.5 high grade for BA stuff.

[Rob]

I think he's referring to 4.0-6.0 comics from the mid-late 60's. Not exactly highly sought after stuff.

[october]

[Rob]

Here's another example. I may have overgraded this, as I wasn't sure how much to take off for the chipping on the back cover. But this is a nice looking book. I'm sure I paid more than $5.99 for it. I would think you could get this in Good for $5.99.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6507542669

[burntboy]

Guide value should be the AVERAGE of what collectors are willing to pay for a book. If the book is a common book then eBay sales, Convention sales, LCS sales, etc. should be combined to get to GUIDE PRICE.

 

That said, it is very rare indeed when people pay guide or above for common issues in mid-grade unless they ABSOLUTELY have the book right then. Should that sale be factored in, of course, but that NOW be considered GUIDE.

 

As much as we all grew up using Overstreet Price Guide, there was not any year where I can remember where some advisors thought that mid-grade books shouldn't be lower.

 

And more so, if you go to a convention and there are BOXES AND BOXES of MID-GRADE books NOT SELLING at guide or slightly less, then that means GUIDE IS TOO HIGH. Most of these books don't get ANY ATTENTION (unlike true HG which will at least get attention even if the price is very high).

 

Yep, I agree. I think guide is way too high for mid-grade stuff....most likely over valued by at least 25-35% at minimum. My point was that eBay does not represent the entire market as people sometimes forget. I personally would pay a good 20-30% more for the same book at a con or store, simply because I can hold the book in my hand. Not to mention the fact that I can avoid the eBay overgrade, shipping costs, ect. If OS is meant to reflect true market value, and market value is an arm's length transaction between two willing parties with knowledge, eBay might not be the best measure for MV. I think everyone here has been on the short end of the stick when it comes to not being fully informed as to the item's defects, grade, ect...all of which would undermine the "knowledge" requirement. This lack of full disclosure often results is relatively low prices due to people "hedging their bets" grade wise. Do I think mids are overvalued in OS? Yes. Do I think that OS should lower their values based primarily on eBay auction results? Absolutely not.

 

Solid points here.........(thumbs up

[rjpb]

That's ebay - If there is low demand for a book, and you're only giving yourself 7-10 days to sell it - it can often go for whatever the minimum is. Had you started it at $9.99 - you probably would have sold it to the same buyer. The other issue with common late silver in 6.0 -7.0 condition, is that many potential buyers would be happy with a 4.0 or a 5.0, and they have a max they'll pay regardless of condition.

[the blob]

with so much missing from the back cover, even though the front looks nice, i would have probably considered that batman 172 to be in the VG range. perhaps i'm too harsh on missing pieces, but i tend to consider anything with missing pieces no better than a VF/Fine, usually less.

 

and i totally agree on the 5.99/9.99 point. Heck, maybe all the way up to 14.99 the same guy may have put in the minimum bid. ditto for your spectres (which were somewhat nicer books than the bats 172)

 

finally, how do we do ebay averages? the grading is totally subjective. we see books listed as VFs all day selling for 25% of VF guide... but when we get them they may just be VGs, in which case they sold for close to guide. (sure, OPG does it's own unrealistic averages.. the hypothetical assumption (albeit incorrect) there is that all OPG advisors grade the same-- hah hah)

 

books from the big, known multiple thousand feedback dealers (see, e.g., Showcase New England) do a much better % of guide than books sold by us nobodies. I'm constantly seeing those guys get at or near guide for runs of generic books in mid-grade.

 

finally, i don't see why ebay 7 day auctions should be considered "the market". if the one or two people out there most interested in the item aren't out there that week, the price will stay down. one person bidding can make all the difference. when i'm in bidding mode i may bump up prices on 200 auctions in a few hours. a store doesn't have to rely on one or two guys with itchy bidding fingers. a store can have something sitting up on the wall for 2 years before it sells at their price.

 

if anything, the prices realized by small time dealers on ebay are more akin to what you would get when you tried to sell to a dealer pre-ebay. actually, perhaps much better, but i digress. afterall, most of the time on ebay you are selling to someone who fancies himself a dealer. so why should "wholesale" cost be deemed "fair market value"?

 

with that said, some of those OPG mid-grade prices are just too high. i'd go look at a guide from 1996 and compare prices to today. I honestly don't think prices on many of these books (other than some of the marvels and DCs out there) have gone up much in the real world, but they may have doubled in OPG during that time.

 

Finally, I also agree that a certain contingent of the bidding public will always bid at a discount off OPG, no matter what the OPG price is. so lowering OPG prices doesn't impact that.

[sfilosa]

finally, i don't see why ebay 7 day auctions should be considered "the market". if the one or two people out there most interested in the item aren't out there that week, the price will stay down.

 

While I agree with this statement as a whole, the other side of the coin is this:

 

What about the millions of mid-grade issues in stores and conventions that get NO INTEREST.

 

So what if someone pays GUIDE PRICE for a mid-grade book on eBay, and that price is $20. So market value is $20 as a sale occured and Guide says so.

 

But there might be 1,000 (or more) other copies sitting in dealers boxes at conventions / shops that WOULD NOT get $20. One buyer, but a huge SUPPLY.

[Rob]

and i totally agree on the 5.99/9.99 point. Heck, maybe all the way up to 14.99 the same guy may have put in the minimum bid. ditto for your spectres (which were somewhat nicer books than the bats 172)

 

Well, I listed the Spectres at $8.99 each the week before, and got no bids. So I relisted, and lowered to $6.99 each.

[Aman619]

But there might be 1,000 (or more) other copies sitting in dealers boxes at conventions / shops that WOULD NOT get $20. One buyer, but a huge SUPPLY.

 

but thats true for every pair of shoes or ANYthing sitting on a stores' shelves unsold, right??

Not every item sells once its put on display: buyer and seller must meet up for a sale to happen. A simplistic analogy maybe, but you see my point.

[sfilosa]

but thats true for every pair of shoes or ANYthing sitting on a stores' shelves unsold, right??

Not every item sells once its put on display: buyer and seller must meet up for a sale to happen. A simplistic analogy maybe, but you see my point.

 

And a lot of clothes eventually gets put on the discount shelf!!!!

 

That said, there is a really difference. Most things that are sold, are meant to wear out, therefore, one must eventually buy another like it or similar. That is not the case with a back issue of a comic.

[the blob]

"Well, I listed the Spectres at $8.99 each the week before, and got no bids. So I relisted, and lowered to $6.99 each."

 

Maybe you'd get your $9 if you let them gather dust in an ebay store for a while?

 

Someone on one of these boards was trying to put together a run of Spectres and Spectre appearances...

 

OPG is too high on a lot of this stuff.

 

$27 in Fine? You can get a lot of comic bang for your buck with $27 like "Good" copies of some somewhat rare stuff, even if paying full guide. And a silver age key in VG like a Marvel Spotlight 5 or whatever.

 

$40+ for the generic batman in F/VF? ditto, see above.

[the blob]

"Well, I listed the Spectres at $8.99 each the week before, and got no bids. So I relisted, and lowered to $6.99 each."

 

Maybe you'd get your $9 if you let them gather dust in an ebay store for a while?

 

Someone on one of these boards was trying to put together a run of Spectres and Spectre appearances...

 

OPG is too high on a lot of this stuff.

 

$27 in Fine? You can get a lot of comic bang for your buck with $27 like "Good" copies of some somewhat rare stuff, even if paying full guide. And a [bRONZE] age key in VG like a Marvel Spotlight 5 or whatever.

 

$40+ for the generic batman in F/VF? ditto, see above.

[uclapeterg]

deja voodoo.

[lou_fine]

with that said, some of those OPG mid-grade prices are just too high. i'd go look at a guide from 1996 and compare prices to today. I honestly don't think prices on many of these books (other than some of the marvels and DCs out there) have gone up much in the real world, but they may have doubled in OPG during that time.

 

Blob;

 

Your statement above is NOT generally true for a lot of the so-called "non-hot" books, unlike the popular books which have undergone significant price increases allowing the mid-grades to ride on their coat tails.

 

For example, with the particular book we are talking about here, namely Spectre #2 - #5. The top of OS guide has gone up nicely here from $67 in 1996 to $120 in 2004. Yet in Fine condition, the price has gone from $28.75 in 1996 DOWN TO $27.00 in 2004.

 

This means that OS has moved Fine prices from approx. 43% of top guide for this particular title down to only 22.5% of top guide in 2004. From a relative point of view, mid-grade common books are taking a hit in the OS which IS a reflection of the real world.

 

Surprisingly, there are a ton of common books that shows this same type of price drop if you take a closer look at the guide