Backlash over this Batgirl Joker variant cover

[Chadwick]

I have two little girls and I don't enjoy seeing images of teenage abuse. She is crying while a man is smearing stuff all over her face with a gun between her breasts. I don't enjoy comics that have rape in them like Killing Joke or Identity Crisis.

 

We eliminated smoking from comics but not rape, seems odd to me.

 

This.

 

Most of you are missing the point about what kind of comic book Batgirl currently is. It's read by and aimed at young girls and teens, its body positive, cute, smart, funny and inspirational. It's fun.

 

The editorial staff have let down the creative team by signing off on this cover. Because tonally its just off.

 

 

It's not the standard cover, it's a variant cover meant to showcase the villain. It was a great decision by the editorial staff to not "fun up" this cover and instead make a nod to the most important confrontation of the two characters. It's the Joker, he's a homicidal maniac, and hero comics only work if you hate the villain.

[ygogolak]

Sounds like a good hot flip, bring it on

 

I bet this is ordered 2x more than the regular cover...minimum

[Lonzilla]

Isn't the point of these variant months by DC and Marvel to get people to buy an issue of a title that they normally wouldn't? Mission accomplished

I wonder how many people who are genuinely upset about a drawing on a cover of a comic book are the least bit disturbed every time Isis releases another decapitation video

[Oakland Pride]

Good art is going to offend somebody. That said, this article is clickbait, & we all fell for it.

[rjpb]

Agreed, solid point.

 

Honestly, I'll have to see some of the outrage first hand before I believe this isn't a manufactured controversy.

 

If it turns out a large segment is legitimately upset about the cover..then I won't have much to say. People have a right to and moan about things they don't like. I'll just think their silly for it

 

+1

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

It seems pretty obvious to me that people have issues with this cover because of the history between the characters from The Killing Joke. If you see these characters together in any context, much less this context, it's the first thing everyone is going to think of.

 

I haven't read any of the articles or threads about this cover, but I don't think you have to be a "bleeding heart" to make the obvious connection between this cover and Killing Joke. You just have to be a comics fan.

Not to send more people to the insufficiently_thoughtful_person's rant, but here it is: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/03/14/so-how-inappropriate-is-the-batgirl-41-joker-variant-cover/

His vajayjay is all twisted in knots because he sees it as degrading to the female empowerment movement. I doubt he's ever read the Killing Joke anyway, he strikes me as more of a Planet type

I'm curious as to whether 1) The irony is lost on you that at the same time you're dismissive of there being sexism in the comics industry & hobby, you're at the same time proving the point by suggesting a male is "lesser" by implying he has female body parts, or 2) You're just being a troll.

 

I imagine it's at least a little bit of each.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

And how do you do a variant cover celebrating the history of the Joker relating to Batgirl without referencing the Killing Joke?

You do so by not depicting Batgirl as being accepting of being a victim. I don't see how that's so hard for people to see.

 

If its rare for a comic cover to show the lead in a vulnerable position, then I suppose I can understand a small amount of outrage. But I find it hard to believe that that's the case.

It may not be rare to show the lead in a vulnerable position, but it's rare to present the lead as accepting of that situation, which is the case here. Compare the Batgirl cover to the Joker variant for Flash, where he's been restrained (i.e. a "vulnerable position") but the expression on his face is one of defiance. Can you think if any example of a male hero in this position where he's cringing and crying?

 

Honestly, I'll have to see some of the outrage first hand before I believe this isn't a manufactured controversy.

 

If it turns out a large segment is legitimately upset about the cover..then I won't have much to say. People have a right to and moan about things they don't like. I'll just think their silly for it

If a point of criticism is a valid point, why should it matter how many people have expressed the point? There could be many people who agree with a point that don't see the necessity in posting the same thing again.

 

I get that most of you guys are Joker and Killing Joke fans, but surely, even if you love this cover, you can at least understand why some fans of Batgirl the character and Batgirl the title are unhappy with it?

 

I mean, this is like if Marvel decided to do a month of Avengers covers to celebrate the release of Avengers 2, and the variant cover for Captain Marvel was a picture of Carol Danvers being mind controlled by Marcus Immortus.

 

While I get what you're going for, the mind-control aspect in your example seems to remove the factor of whether the character is accepting of the situation she is in.

 

I find it interesting that the criticism of the Batgirl cover that I've read is overwhelming presented as a fairly cogent argument or as an intellectual reaction, yet so much of the response to the criticism is being dismissed as people being "outraged," "upset," or some other emotional reaction.

 

If you're legitimately fine with the cover, try addressing the points that are being made in opposition to it.

[Vikingreed]

Here is her most recent cover.

It's not exactly peaches and cream...

 

[SquareChaos]

I have two little girls and I don't enjoy seeing images of teenage abuse. She is crying while a man is smearing stuff all over her face with a gun between her breasts. I don't enjoy comics that have rape in them like Killing Joke or Identity Crisis.

 

We eliminated smoking from comics but not rape, seems odd to me.

 

This.

 

Most of you are missing the point about what kind of comic book Batgirl currently is. It's read by and aimed at young girls and teens, its body positive, cute, smart, funny and inspirational. It's fun.

 

The editorial staff have let down the creative team by signing off on this cover. Because tonally its just off.

 

I don't know that this is entirely true - my girlfriend has read this book since the New 52 relaunch and it has had some pretty dark content matter at times. It's also had some relatively mature sexual identity topics as well from what I understand, so... while the very most recent reworking is a little more bubble gum and ponies, the still very recent history of the book isn't always bright and cheerful.

 

When you get right down to it, the book is about a vigilante who beats people up in her spare time.

[Jaydogrules]

Did anyone express any negative opinions of the Harley Quinn #1 cover depicting batman maimed and chained to the floor with HQ in the foreground wielding her massive mallet with a crazed look on her face ?

 

Much ado about nothing.

 

-J.

 

 

[krighton]

when they slap a sexy black cat by jsc on a cover and black cat isn't in the comic...should there be backlash on that also.

[darkstar]

I have two little girls and I don't enjoy seeing images of teenage abuse. She is crying while a man is smearing stuff all over her face with a gun between her breasts. I don't enjoy comics that have rape in them like Killing Joke or Identity Crisis.

 

Unfortunately a lot of evil and disgusting things are a reality. As such they will continue to be addressed and commented through the various artistic mediums.

 

We eliminated smoking from comics

 

Which was absurd.

 

And crying about a possible implication of rape (not even a depicted occurrence!) in a piece of art in which the murder and death of innocents is a regular occurrence is equally absurd. We're fine with ending lives (and the graphic depiction thereof) but the suggestion of sexual violence against a woman is completely not okay. That is nonsensical.

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

The backlash started on cbr forums then bc took the idea and ran with it. I don't understand why so many people are labeling this cover as misogynistic.

 

CBR has gotten themselves in some trouble in the past over outrage. The boards were recently reset because of some trouble. I'm amazed they'd allow the outrage in the new norm over there.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I have two little girls and I don't enjoy seeing images of teenage abuse. She is crying while a man is smearing stuff all over her face with a gun between her breasts. I don't enjoy comics that have rape in them like Killing Joke or Identity Crisis.

 

We eliminated smoking from comics but not rape, seems odd to me.

 

This.

 

Most of you are missing the point about what kind of comic book Batgirl currently is. It's read by and aimed at young girls and teens, its body positive, cute, smart, funny and inspirational. It's fun.

 

The editorial staff have let down the creative team by signing off on this cover. Because tonally its just off.

 

I don't know that this is entirely true - my girlfriend has read this book since the New 52 relaunch and it has had some pretty dark content matter at times. It's also had some relatively mature sexual identity topics as well from what I understand, so... while the very most recent reworking is a little more bubble gum and ponies, the still very recent history of the book isn't always bright and cheerful.

 

When you get right down to it, the book is about a vigilante who beats people up in her spare time.

 

I'd love to know how many parents would let their "Young Girls" read the book. I've been an off again on again reader of Batgirl for the past 10 years or so. I picked it back up with the new direction as Gale Simone's run was all over the place. The new direction puts a pretty huge emphasis on promiscuity. In one issue, Barbara even seemingly has a one night stand after a party.

 

I was hoping it'd be something I'd let my 10 year old daughter read, but it wasn't. I felt the same way about the Ms. Marvel book. It put a lot of emphasis on teenage drinking and I didn't think it was appropriate for my 10 year old- she might have been 8 or 9 at that point though as that was a couple years ago.

 

These books aren't catered to a "Young" crowd. They might be catered to a female crowd though.

 

PS: I haven't cared for the new Batgirl direction. It is A LOT of talking heads and isn't paced well. It feels like a chore at times. Batgirl hasn't been great since they relaunched it, IMO.

[SquareChaos]

My girlfriend enjoyed Simone's run. She is leaning towards dropping it with the current new direction.

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I have two little girls and I don't enjoy seeing images of teenage abuse. She is crying while a man is smearing stuff all over her face with a gun between her breasts. I don't enjoy comics that have rape in them like Killing Joke or Identity Crisis.

 

One more thing: was Batgirl raped in The Killing Joke? I never took it that way…

[ChrisInBaltimore]

My girlfriend enjoyed Simone's run. She is leaning towards dropping it with the current new direction.

 

Did she read it pre-relaunch though?

[SquareChaos]

My girlfriend enjoyed Simone's run. She is leaning towards dropping it with the current new direction.

 

Did she read it pre-relaunch though?

 

No, she was new to comics when we met.

 

Her favorite of the female superhero books was the N52 Wonder Woman run. She also really liked Captain Marvel and she enjoyed Deconnick's Avenger's book as well while it lasted.

 

Her absolute favorite is Judge Dredd though... go figure. I think it has something to do with Karl Urban personally.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

My girlfriend enjoyed Simone's run. She is leaning towards dropping it with the current new direction.

 

Did she read it pre-relaunch though?

 

No, she was new to comics when we met.

 

Her favorite of the female superhero books was the N52 Wonder Woman run. She also really liked Captain Marvel and she enjoyed Deconnick's Avenger's book as well while it lasted.

 

Her absolute favorite is Judge Dredd though... go figure. I think it has something to do with Karl Urban personally.

 

The Bryan Q Miller run of Batgirl pre-New 52 was really solid. Someone referred to it as the Buffy of the Bat universe and I thought it was a good characterization of the book.

[darkstar]

You do so by not depicting Batgirl as being accepting of being a victim. I don't see how that's so hard for people to see.

 

Perhaps the cover depicting her as an accepted victim is being used to establish a dichotomy between what the character was and what she has become? Maybe there is a little more to it than just the artist being a misogynist. Just maybe. Maybe this isn't the first time its happened:

 

Back in 1990, Batgirl looking helpless and what is the Joker doing with his hand there?!

 

 

And the following month's female empowerment cover:

 

 

Its not like the cover is being used as a callback to illustrate a significant event in Batgirl's history when she was vulnerable, right? This has never been done with Batman, right?

 

It may not be rare to show the lead in a vulnerable position, but it's rare to present the lead as accepting of that situation, which is the case here. Compare the Batgirl cover to the Joker variant for Flash, where he's been restrained (i.e. a "vulnerable position") but the expression on his face is one of defiance. Can you think if any example of a male hero in this position where he's cringing and crying?

 

Yeah Batman is looking pretty defiant here:

 

 

And is clearly showing his war-face here:

 

 

And of course Batman has never been depicted as being at the mercy of the Joker:

 

 

 

 

I find it interesting that the criticism of the Batgirl cover that I've read is overwhelming presented as a fairly cogent argument or as an intellectual reaction

 

It was? Where?

 

The first point, Bleeding Cool's stance, was that the cover and the content of the book don't gel. Okay, but oftentimes they don't.

 

The second point being made was that the viewer doesn't like rape. Well who does? Its supposed to make the viewer feel disgusted or uneasy, as rape is a horrible and evil thing. The depiction of rape (or the suggestion that it occurred) and the glorification of rape are not the same.

 

The third point being that Batgirl is depicted as a helpless victim and accepting of the situation and thus it is sexist and misogynistic See above.

 

If you're legitimately fine with the cover, try addressing the points that are being made in opposition to it.

 

If you know of any more please post them.