Chuck explains his Mile High pricing

[RockMyAmadeus]

You all need a hug

 

Don't get personal with me, Sonny!

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I guess that depends on if someone believes the reasoning someone gives.

 

Not taking people at their word, when there's really no incentive to do otherwise, is an awfully cynical way to live life.

 

 

And I'm pretty sure when I made that post the comment I am questioning was made. My intent wasn't to call anyone specifically out since in my opinion I thought there were multiple people who were making the attacks.

 

Accusations of personal attacks are best made specifically, so others aren't unfairly caught in the net.

[wombat]

I take people at their word all the time. But not every time.

 

 

It was an attempt (perhaps feeble) of trying to get multiple people to see my point. If people feel "caught in the net" so be it.

 

 

[Bosco685]

I think Chuck had an article or two in his 'Tales of the Database' series where he talked about using his existing inventory to take out bank loans in order to cover future collection purchases and funding billing and payroll.

 

Chuck's Tales From The Database

 

After I read that, I always wondered if part of his high-price catalog approach was using those prices with his banker to validate book value as part of his loan collateral.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Here's an interesting question to ponder...

 

People have said that Chuck could have kept the Church collection to himself, and sold it at a later, more advantageous time.

 

The question, though, is this...since nothing operates in a vacuum, would the market be what it is today without the Church collection?

 

The Church Action #1 is worth what it is because it's the CHURCH Action #1.

 

Would Action #1 be worth what it is today, even non-Church copies, if the Church collection hadn't given such a massive boost to the very young hobby in the late 70s....?

 

 

Probably. Maybe. But there are quintillion and more causes and effects that radiated out from this collection and its subsequent sale, so who knows what would have been had Chuck just kept it all for himself...?

 

I suspect, however, that even given its state of preservation, and completeness, if it was discovered today, the market would be substantially different than it became...and we all might be talking about the "Lost Valley" collection, instead.

[MrBedrock]

Define radically overpay.

Define define

[jaybuck43]

Also, let's not pretend that Chuck is the only one who does this. There is a LCS near me that has an Avengers #1 sitting on their wall. I looked it over with a fine tooth comb because I was interested in buying it. At best I would assign it a Fine grade (5.5/6.0 at best CGC) When going through it, I noticed that there was a bit of rust on the staple that has transferred to the page. Value killer for someone like me. I mentioned it to the worker and was told that's fine, we don't expect it to sell anyway, that's why it's listed at $7,000. It's just there so people ooo and ahh over a $7,000 book as they are buying their weekly/monthly purchases. "We're not a Back Issue Bin Store".

 

This may be some of Chucks business practice. Get the modern buyers to come in, pick up their new releases. Look through the bin for something missing in their run etc. See "cool" books (i.e. books people have never seen before) on the wall. See the high prices on books and feel that they're book investment, while also a good read, will also mature in value, and possibly pick up more New Release books.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I take people at their word all the time. But not every time.

 

And what, specifically, would lead you to not take Bookery at his word, in this case?

 

 

It was an attempt (perhaps feeble) of trying to get multiple people to see my point. If people feel "caught in the net" so be it.

 

 

So, rfoiii is expressing an issue with the way he thinks I post, I tell him not to make the discussion personal, that personal attacks aren't appropriate, then YOU come along and say "I see personal attacks coming from both sides", quite clearly implying that I was making them, too, but then later say "oh, well, that comment had nothing to do with you, and if you thought that was aimed at you, that's too bad."

 

 

That seems fair.

 

[MrBedrock]

I should be glad logical reasoning isn't formally taught in public school; otherwise message boards wouldn't be this much fun.

[Bookery]

One of the things that's interesting about the Chuch collection is its very "definitiveness" (yeah... I know... probably not a word). How many other collectibles have one collection that is without debate considered to be the best. Is there a best coin collection ever discovered? I don't know. How about a single unqualified best baseball card collection?

 

I can tell you there is no "best book collection" that can be pinned down. So that alone gives the collection a special place beyond even just the comics community.

 

[Prince Namor]

One positive for me from this thread. I had no idea what the Church Collection was and its history. Always happy to learn.

 

Oh, it's wonderful. I've only had Church slabs in my hands, never actual raw copies...and I could still feel the history.

 

Chuck's story behind it, taken with whatever grains of salt one thinks is appropriate, is quite the thrilling adventure.

 

Can you imagine? He had just about everything. "Finest known" is true for the vast, vast majority of the collection.

 

 

One of my favorite things about his story, and yes, 'grain of salt' and all of that, is that he wasn't the first person contacted about the collection, he was the first person who agreed to get up off his duff and go see it...

[wombat]

I take people at their word all the time. But not every time.

 

And what, specifically, would lead you to not take Bookery at his word, in this case?

 

 

It was an attempt (perhaps feeble) of trying to get multiple people to see my point. If people feel "caught in the net" so be it.

 

 

So, rfoiii is expressing an issue with the way he thinks I post, I tell him not to make the discussion personal, that personal attacks aren't appropriate, then YOU come along and say "I see personal attacks coming from both sides", quite clearly implying that I was making them, too, but then later say "oh, well, that comment had nothing to do with you, and if you thought that was aimed at you, that's too bad."

 

 

That seems fair.

 

 

In context and with his follow up post that is the way I see it. He even said in a follow up even if they aren't that young I'm not insulting them. Kind of kills the argument for me.

 

LIfe isn't fair.

[MrBedrock]

Here's an interesting question to ponder...

 

People have said that Chuck could have kept the Church collection to himself, and sold it at a later, more advantageous time.

 

The question, though, is this...since nothing operates in a vacuum, would the market be what it is today without the Church collection?

 

The Church Action #1 is worth what it is because it's the CHURCH Action #1.

 

Would Action #1 be worth what it is today, even non-Church copies, if the Church collection hadn't given such a massive boost to the very young hobby in the late 70s....?

 

 

Probably. Maybe. But there are quintillion and more causes and effects that radiated out from this collection and its subsequent sale, so who knows what would have been had Chuck just kept it all for himself...?

 

I suspect, however, that even given its state of preservation, and completeness, if it was discovered today, the market would be substantially different than it became...and we all might be talking about the "Lost Valley" collection, instead.

First off, Chuck couldn't have kept the collection intact. Part of his ability to acquire the collection was obtaining a loan from a collector with the promise that it would be paid back with books from the collection. But I understand where you are going with the line of thought.

 

The Action 1 is not the best book to use to ponder your question though, simply because the last time it sold was over thirty years ago and for only in the low tens of thousands ($20,000???). The sale of that particular book really didn't create much of a new threshold for the hobby. It rare to see a Church copy of any of the major keys change hands so any talk of their value is purely speculative. I would argue that where the collection has had the most profound effect is with the many sales of random non-key issues of Golden Age titles for staggering prices. Every time a Church copy of any book sells for many multiples of guide it establishes a new threshold for all copies of that particular issue in any grade. That doesn't necessarily mean that all other copies are automatically worth more. It just means that the hobby as a whole has a new upper limit with which to gauge those books. And across the entirety of the golden age spectrum the Church collection has had the most effect, and continues to have the most effect with every auction.

[MrBedrock]

One positive for me from this thread. I had no idea what the Church Collection was and its history. Always happy to learn.

 

Oh, it's wonderful. I've only had Church slabs in my hands, never actual raw copies...and I could still feel the history.

 

Chuck's story behind it, taken with whatever grains of salt one thinks is appropriate, is quite the thrilling adventure.

 

Can you imagine? He had just about everything. "Finest known" is true for the vast, vast majority of the collection.

 

 

One of my favorite things about his story, and yes, 'grain of salt' and all of that, is that he wasn't the first person contacted about the collection, he was the first person who agreed to get up off his duff and go see it...

One of my favorite things about the collection is that I got to paw through stacks of them at Burrel's house in 1977.

[Prince Namor]

One positive for me from this thread. I had no idea what the Church Collection was and its history. Always happy to learn.

 

Oh, it's wonderful. I've only had Church slabs in my hands, never actual raw copies...and I could still feel the history.

 

Chuck's story behind it, taken with whatever grains of salt one thinks is appropriate, is quite the thrilling adventure.

 

Can you imagine? He had just about everything. "Finest known" is true for the vast, vast majority of the collection.

 

 

One of my favorite things about his story, and yes, 'grain of salt' and all of that, is that he wasn't the first person contacted about the collection, he was the first person who agreed to get up off his duff and go see it...

One of my favorite things about the collection is that I got to paw through stacks of them at Burrel's house in 1977.

 

[Bookery]

One positive for me from this thread. I had no idea what the Church Collection was and its history. Always happy to learn.

 

Oh, it's wonderful. I've only had Church slabs in my hands, never actual raw copies...and I could still feel the history.

 

Chuck's story behind it, taken with whatever grains of salt one thinks is appropriate, is quite the thrilling adventure.

 

Can you imagine? He had just about everything. "Finest known" is true for the vast, vast majority of the collection.

 

 

One of my favorite things about his story, and yes, 'grain of salt' and all of that, is that he wasn't the first person contacted about the collection, he was the first person who agreed to get up off his duff and go see it...

One of my favorite things about the collection is that I got to paw through stacks of them at Burrel's house in 1977.

 

I once owned a couple of MH Centaurs. They were sharp 7.0-8.0 copies, but obviously not the highest-grade examples from the collection. I always suspected those were your fingerprints in the white upper-corner areas. Now I know.

 

 

[wombat]

If I have offended anyone then I apologize. It was never my intent. I have no clue why I got so invested in this discussion. Other than being really bored.

[Bookery]

If I have offended anyone then I apologize. It was never my intent. I have no clue why I got so invested in this discussion. Other than being really bored.

 

(thumbs u

 

I know that's why I'm posting today! Been processing a long box full of misc. not-especially exciting material, and so sought a diversion. I generally don't mean to be insulting per se, but let's just say I can wander down the snarky road now and then. It is a failing no doubt, but there it is.

 

[wombat]

So why is it called the "Church" collection? (I know I can google it, but I know you people like to flaunt your knowledge).

 

[Bookery]

So why is it called the "Church" collection? (I know I can google it, but I know you people like to flaunt your knowledge).

 

 

Early collectors who got to look through the collection often said it was like a religious experience. It was also discovered that the Church books were so nice, that if you set them beside lesser books, they would actually heal some of the flaws in them just by being in proximity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(just being silly)