Are key comics good investments?

[ComicConnoisseur]

Sure there are going to be new collectors coming in...but down the road not to buy a comic book they can't touch, read, or feel at a very high and inflated price.

 

No they are gonna get graphic novels, reprints or go on line

 

The graded comic bookin a holder is gonna be 98% (if it isn't now) Speculator who buys and sells the comic book commodity as a widget. If you go on gold, a lot of true collectors have not slabbed there collection...major collections UNNTIL the decide to sell at speculator prices (worlds highest price).

 

So what new GEN kid is gonna want all star comics #15 in a slab......again we are in a market frenzy......brought on by the thinking...."somebody is gonna pay more", yogu book is worth 5x value if it is slabbed....and the whole world wants your book according to the auction houses.

 

So what is it you actually fear Mitch? That people won't read physical comics anymore or that they won't have the same monetary value for older books?

.

 

My fear is simple,.... That people will say comics used to be valuable before they crashed like cards and stamps ... Disrespect... Going back to the old days... And losing 40 years of building respect for the comic book world to a few greedy speculators who never gavel a dammm in the first place... They will run like rats off a sinking ship... And think of all the articles ... Comic market collaspes... I don't look forward to it.

Sounds like the sports card market now,even though Brady,Trout,Kobe, LeBron James, Jordan and other rookie cards consistently sell for over $1000 each all we still hear is how sports cards are junk and worthless because of the 1990s crash.

So I can see your point of view on this Mitch.

 

[greenhoody]

I think those points are all arguable. On what basis are movies a poor substitute? They are driving interest. Not sure how you quantity that they will not have the less/the same/or more impact than purchasing physical copies.

 

I don't know whether they are good or not. And overall I agree with you that comics do not look like a good investment. But I don't think you can justify that conclusion based on falling circulation and I take issue with the focus on nostalgia as a necessary driver of price. Nostalgia is obviously not necessary precondition for high values. And even if it were, the books remain culturally significant and if anything the characters have become more well known.

 

We have a multitude of factors at play here. It is very simplistic to say circulation is dropping and nobody rides their Schwinn to the milk bar anymore therefore prices are unsustainable. Just like it is overly simplistic to say movies are driving interest inexorably forward and their cultural impact means they will maintain their prices.

 

I have to view anyone who claims to be able to weigh those factors against each other and discern a future market direction with incredulity.

 

Movies drive interest in the characters, but, it's not enough that kids are wearing Batman and Spider-Man t-shirts if their only connection with the characters is the films, videogames and the clothes their parents buy them. Yes, we've seen some tick up in comic sales, though, when the median top 100 book has seen flat sales for the past decade, you really have to question how much (and how much of is new vs. old collectors). At the end of the day, to create new vintage comic collectors, you need to get them buying comic books. Virtually no one goes from watching a Spider-Man movie directly to plunking down 25 grand for an AF #15.

 

Far from being the new gateway to reading and collecting comics, the movies have co-opted these characters for their own. People go see "The Avengers" and then wait for "The Avengers: Age of Ultron" - they don't necessarily go out and buy a copy of the latest Avengers comic, or a Kree-Skrull War TPB, and they certainly don't go out and drop big coin on an original Avengers #1. The bottom line is that, for a thriving back issue hobby to exist in the future, we need to hook more actual comic book readers today. I don't believe in the Rule of 25 as a whole, but, think about this - a 13 year old today will be 38 in 25 years and potentially hitting his stride professionally. What's he going to be nostalgic about from his youth? Maybe watching all those superhero movies. But, is a 38-year old guy who never read the comics suddenly going to get into the comics then?

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but looking at every step in the process, the conversion rate is going to be so small compared to what it used to be when there were fewer entertainment options, and comics were cheap and ubiquitous. The first comics I ever read were bought by my parents at a rest stop on a family roadtrip. Later, when I became a collector, I had two friends who lent me their comics, and then I went out to the local 7-11 and bought my first comic on my own. What's the 2015 equivalent? Now we have in-car video, iPads and other handheld electronic devices to keep the kids occupied on the way to Walley World. Friends don't lend each other comic books anymore, they use social media to share photos and such. The 7-11 doesn't carry comics anymore. I'm not saying that motivated people can't find their way to buy comics, but, given how much things have changed and, despite the immense popularity of superheroes in pop culture, it's no wonder that the size of the current readership is a fraction of what it was in the '80s and early '90s. And, fewer readers now means fewer collectors 25 years from now.

 

People who enjoy the movies today will simply become nostalgic about the movies in 25 years, just like I like to watch Top Gun and Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Raiders of the Lost Ark. If they don't get hooked early into buying and reading comics, reading fansites/blogs, going to conventions, etc., they're not going to wake up in 25 years desiring to buy AF #15s and New Mutants #98 and such. I mean, sure, I'm sure there will be exceptions that prove the rule, but, in the aggregate, they won't have the numbers to replace the collectors who are exiting the hobby, which is the problem. It's all about converting more people into collectors and there are many reasons why that is not occurring at anywhere near the same rate as 20-30 years ago. IMO, it's very obvious which factor will be stronger in the long run, especially since all those billions of movie tickets sold have not managed to budge the median top 100 unit sales figure for a decade. If you're not creating a ton of new, young collectors today to replace those Baby Boomers and Gen Xers who leave, there won't be a thriving hobby 25 years from now. Math > hope/faith

 

Salient points. Here is a counter-point.

 

The world is going digital, this is absolutely true. People have always been collectors. This is also true. What will the future generations collect? If the world is digital and on demand, those things that the 13 year old now enjoys will be even more ubiquitous when he/she is 38. So they might just want to reach back to something that is NOT ubiquitous, comics or other such paper based items that will ultimately no longer be produced. The collecting gene (no pun intended Gene) won't go away. So the need to sate that Jones might be stronger than ever.

 

Exactly! I can't see anything being made today (that's not already expensive) this is going to be collectible down the road. Everything is just cheap junk these days.

 

I don't know anybody that collects anything. It's throw away age.

[BarryAllen]

I think those points are all arguable. On what basis are movies a poor substitute? They are driving interest. Not sure how you quantity that they will not have the less/the same/or more impact than purchasing physical copies.

 

I don't know whether they are good or not. And overall I agree with you that comics do not look like a good investment. But I don't think you can justify that conclusion based on falling circulation and I take issue with the focus on nostalgia as a necessary driver of price. Nostalgia is obviously not necessary precondition for high values. And even if it were, the books remain culturally significant and if anything the characters have become more well known.

 

We have a multitude of factors at play here. It is very simplistic to say circulation is dropping and nobody rides their Schwinn to the milk bar anymore therefore prices are unsustainable. Just like it is overly simplistic to say movies are driving interest inexorably forward and their cultural impact means they will maintain their prices.

 

I have to view anyone who claims to be able to weigh those factors against each other and discern a future market direction with incredulity.

 

Movies drive interest in the characters, but, it's not enough that kids are wearing Batman and Spider-Man t-shirts if their only connection with the characters is the films, videogames and the clothes their parents buy them. Yes, we've seen some tick up in comic sales, though, when the median top 100 book has seen flat sales for the past decade, you really have to question how much (and how much of is new vs. old collectors). At the end of the day, to create new vintage comic collectors, you need to get them buying comic books. Virtually no one goes from watching a Spider-Man movie directly to plunking down 25 grand for an AF #15.

 

Far from being the new gateway to reading and collecting comics, the movies have co-opted these characters for their own. People go see "The Avengers" and then wait for "The Avengers: Age of Ultron" - they don't necessarily go out and buy a copy of the latest Avengers comic, or a Kree-Skrull War TPB, and they certainly don't go out and drop big coin on an original Avengers #1. The bottom line is that, for a thriving back issue hobby to exist in the future, we need to hook more actual comic book readers today. I don't believe in the Rule of 25 as a whole, but, think about this - a 13 year old today will be 38 in 25 years and potentially hitting his stride professionally. What's he going to be nostalgic about from his youth? Maybe watching all those superhero movies. But, is a 38-year old guy who never read the comics suddenly going to get into the comics then?

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but looking at every step in the process, the conversion rate is going to be so small compared to what it used to be when there were fewer entertainment options, and comics were cheap and ubiquitous. The first comics I ever read were bought by my parents at a rest stop on a family roadtrip. Later, when I became a collector, I had two friends who lent me their comics, and then I went out to the local 7-11 and bought my first comic on my own. What's the 2015 equivalent? Now we have in-car video, iPads and other handheld electronic devices to keep the kids occupied on the way to Walley World. Friends don't lend each other comic books anymore, they use social media to share photos and such. The 7-11 doesn't carry comics anymore. I'm not saying that motivated people can't find their way to buy comics, but, given how much things have changed and, despite the immense popularity of superheroes in pop culture, it's no wonder that the size of the current readership is a fraction of what it was in the '80s and early '90s. And, fewer readers now means fewer collectors 25 years from now.

 

People who enjoy the movies today will simply become nostalgic about the movies in 25 years, just like I like to watch Top Gun and Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Raiders of the Lost Ark. If they don't get hooked early into buying and reading comics, reading fansites/blogs, going to conventions, etc., they're not going to wake up in 25 years desiring to buy AF #15s and New Mutants #98 and such. I mean, sure, I'm sure there will be exceptions that prove the rule, but, in the aggregate, they won't have the numbers to replace the collectors who are exiting the hobby, which is the problem. It's all about converting more people into collectors and there are many reasons why that is not occurring at anywhere near the same rate as 20-30 years ago. IMO, it's very obvious which factor will be stronger in the long run, especially since all those billions of movie tickets sold have not managed to budge the median top 100 unit sales figure for a decade. If you're not creating a ton of new, young collectors today to replace those Baby Boomers and Gen Xers who leave, there won't be a thriving hobby 25 years from now. Math > hope/faith

 

Salient points. Here is a counter-point.

 

The world is going digital, this is absolutely true. People have always been collectors. This is also true. What will the future generations collect? If the world is digital and on demand, those things that the 13 year old now enjoys will be even more ubiquitous when he/she is 38. So they might just want to reach back to something that is NOT ubiquitous, comics or other such paper based items that will ultimately no longer be produced. The collecting gene (no pun intended Gene) won't go away. So the need to sate that Jones might be stronger than ever.

 

Exactly! I can't see anything being made today (that's not already expensive) this is going to be collectible down the road. Everything is just cheap junk these days.

 

I don't know anybody that collects anything. It's throw away age.

 

:shrug:

 

The majority of stuff made in any age since the invention of the assembly line has been mostly "throw-away." Not that I disagree with your point, I just don't see this time as that much different as 10, 20, 30 or even 75 years ago. There were just less people and technology to mass produce was not as efficient - net less of "stuff."

 

What is collectible is a combination of popular culture and economics. It really is hard to say what is going to be collectible from say 2000-2020, but I am sure in 50 years something will be. However, if it were that easy to identify it would be hoarded in mass supply and thus negate its collectibility to an extent (i.e. beanie babies, etc).

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

I think those points are all arguable. On what basis are movies a poor substitute? They are driving interest. Not sure how you quantity that they will not have the less/the same/or more impact than purchasing physical copies.

 

I don't know whether they are good or not. And overall I agree with you that comics do not look like a good investment. But I don't think you can justify that conclusion based on falling circulation and I take issue with the focus on nostalgia as a necessary driver of price. Nostalgia is obviously not necessary precondition for high values. And even if it were, the books remain culturally significant and if anything the characters have become more well known.

 

We have a multitude of factors at play here. It is very simplistic to say circulation is dropping and nobody rides their Schwinn to the milk bar anymore therefore prices are unsustainable. Just like it is overly simplistic to say movies are driving interest inexorably forward and their cultural impact means they will maintain their prices.

 

I have to view anyone who claims to be able to weigh those factors against each other and discern a future market direction with incredulity.

 

Movies drive interest in the characters, but, it's not enough that kids are wearing Batman and Spider-Man t-shirts if their only connection with the characters is the films, videogames and the clothes their parents buy them. Yes, we've seen some tick up in comic sales, though, when the median top 100 book has seen flat sales for the past decade, you really have to question how much (and how much of is new vs. old collectors). At the end of the day, to create new vintage comic collectors, you need to get them buying comic books. Virtually no one goes from watching a Spider-Man movie directly to plunking down 25 grand for an AF #15.

 

Far from being the new gateway to reading and collecting comics, the movies have co-opted these characters for their own. People go see "The Avengers" and then wait for "The Avengers: Age of Ultron" - they don't necessarily go out and buy a copy of the latest Avengers comic, or a Kree-Skrull War TPB, and they certainly don't go out and drop big coin on an original Avengers #1. The bottom line is that, for a thriving back issue hobby to exist in the future, we need to hook more actual comic book readers today. I don't believe in the Rule of 25 as a whole, but, think about this - a 13 year old today will be 38 in 25 years and potentially hitting his stride professionally. What's he going to be nostalgic about from his youth? Maybe watching all those superhero movies. But, is a 38-year old guy who never read the comics suddenly going to get into the comics then?

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but looking at every step in the process, the conversion rate is going to be so small compared to what it used to be when there were fewer entertainment options, and comics were cheap and ubiquitous. The first comics I ever read were bought by my parents at a rest stop on a family roadtrip. Later, when I became a collector, I had two friends who lent me their comics, and then I went out to the local 7-11 and bought my first comic on my own. What's the 2015 equivalent? Now we have in-car video, iPads and other handheld electronic devices to keep the kids occupied on the way to Walley World. Friends don't lend each other comic books anymore, they use social media to share photos and such. The 7-11 doesn't carry comics anymore. I'm not saying that motivated people can't find their way to buy comics, but, given how much things have changed and, despite the immense popularity of superheroes in pop culture, it's no wonder that the size of the current readership is a fraction of what it was in the '80s and early '90s. And, fewer readers now means fewer collectors 25 years from now.

 

People who enjoy the movies today will simply become nostalgic about the movies in 25 years, just like I like to watch Top Gun and Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Raiders of the Lost Ark. If they don't get hooked early into buying and reading comics, reading fansites/blogs, going to conventions, etc., they're not going to wake up in 25 years desiring to buy AF #15s and New Mutants #98 and such. I mean, sure, I'm sure there will be exceptions that prove the rule, but, in the aggregate, they won't have the numbers to replace the collectors who are exiting the hobby, which is the problem. It's all about converting more people into collectors and there are many reasons why that is not occurring at anywhere near the same rate as 20-30 years ago. IMO, it's very obvious which factor will be stronger in the long run, especially since all those billions of movie tickets sold have not managed to budge the median top 100 unit sales figure for a decade. If you're not creating a ton of new, young collectors today to replace those Baby Boomers and Gen Xers who leave, there won't be a thriving hobby 25 years from now. Math > hope/faith

 

Salient points. Here is a counter-point.

 

The world is going digital, this is absolutely true. People have always been collectors. This is also true. What will the future generations collect? If the world is digital and on demand, those things that the 13 year old now enjoys will be even more ubiquitous when he/she is 38. So they might just want to reach back to something that is NOT ubiquitous, comics or other such paper based items that will ultimately no longer be produced. The collecting gene (no pun intended Gene) won't go away. So the need to sate that Jones might be stronger than ever.

 

Exactly! I can't see anything being made today (that's not already expensive) this is going to be collectible down the road. Everything is just cheap junk these days.

 

I don't know anybody that collects anything. It's throw away age.

 

:shrug:

 

The majority of stuff made in any age since the invention of the assembly line has been mostly "throw-away." Not that I disagree with your point, I just don't see this time as that much different as 10, 20, 30 or even 75 years ago. There were just less people and technology to mass produce was not as efficient - net less of "stuff."

 

What is collectible is a combination of popular culture and economics. It really is hard to say what is going to be collectible from say 2000-2020, but I am sure in 50 years something will be. However, if it were that easy to identify it would be hoarded in mass supply and thus negate its collectibility to an extent (i.e. beanie babies, etc).

 

Good points

One thing that

Golden and Silver Age Comics

Vintage sports cards

vintage Elvis Sun records

Early Beatles records

Star Wars 12 backs action figures

have in common is none were hoarded and stashed away.

The majority were thrown away, well-used and not bagged and boarded.

None were manufactured collectibles.

 

 

[Peter G]

I think keys are comparable to blue chip stock. Not a lot of movement, but safer to sit on. Working capital is my best friend and I'm all about the quick flip, short deal, rinse repeat. Sure I could have sat chill with some monster keys, but what a squeeze my life would be in. I think its just as nice that I can say I had this or that as much as saying I have this or that.

 

+1

 

"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

 

I never get tired of "having".

 

-J.

 

[ciorac]

Salient points. Here is a counter-point.

 

The world is going digital, this is absolutely true. People have always been collectors. This is also true. What will the future generations collect? If the world is digital and on demand, those things that the 13 year old now enjoys will be even more ubiquitous when he/she is 38. So they might just want to reach back to something that is NOT ubiquitous, comics or other such paper based items that will ultimately no longer be produced. The collecting gene (no pun intended Gene) won't go away. So the need to sate that Jones might be stronger than ever.

 

I'm sure that, even in the caveman days, Ugg wanted to collect more rocks than Ooga, and that there is some truth to there being a genetic/instinctual urge to collect. That said, I think American-style collecting is largely a product of the environment - prosperity, personal property rights, and lots of room for storage. And, to me, the environment is changing (culturally at least) and the urge to collect can manifest itself in many new ways - such as collecting the most "likes" on Facebook or Twitter followers or building an extensive MP3 library or downloading the most porn.

 

I just watched the "21 Jump Street" movie this week and, yes, it's a low-grade comedy, but it was funny seeing how these two nitwits go back to high school as undercover narcs and find that social conventions that have prevailed for decades have been totally up-ended in just a few short years. There is definitely some truth in that, and I have my doubts whether today's youth will, in the aggregate, gravitate towards their father's and grandfather's hobbies even if they do become more materialistic and nostalgic over time than they are now.

 

Perhaps, in time, people will long for simpler times and the comfort of paper collectibles. I'm sure there will be people who fall into that category, just as there are younger people today who love antiques and Americana. But, on the whole, I guess I'm part of the Hannibal Lecter School of Collecting. What do we covet, Clarice? What we see every day (or, in this case, what we enjoyed in our younger days).

 

You will let me know when the lambs stop screaming, won't you?

 

I'm having an old friend for dinner

 

Stop watching 21 jump street, and your intellectual prowess will grow by leaps and bounds

 

I'm perfectly comfortable if comic prices reduce dramatically, as I will be able to acquire Tec 27 and Action 1 again. But I honestly doubt it will happen in my lifetime.

 

You've been wrong predicting the demise of this hobby at least 10 years in a row, perhaps it is time to change predictions?

 

And you didn't respond to my query as to when the next crash of your beloved stock market would be

[rjrjr]

Good points

One thing that

...

Star Wars 12 backs action figures

have in common is none were hoarded and stashed away.

The majority were thrown away, well-used and not bagged and boarded.

None were manufactured collectibles.

 

 

Star Wars 12 backs were certainly hoarded and stashed away. I have known dealers with sealed boxes of these figures. They are not uncommon at all, just expensive. Like many comics.

[delekkerste]

You've been wrong predicting the demise of this hobby at least 10 years in a row, perhaps it is time to change predictions?

 

 

No one is predicting the demise of the hobby, least of all myself. And I'm not sure how I could have been wrong for the last 10 years - have I been predicting an imminent crash/demise every year that didn't come to pass? Even now I'm talking about a generational changeover that hasn't happened yet and may not come to pass for another 10-15 years or longer. Oh, but I see what you've done here - you've taken something I said in 2005 and just linearly extrapolated it to 2015 as if nothing changed in-between. Just like you're doing with the price trend on comic book keys for the past 10 years and extrapolating past performance indefinitely into the future.

 

 

And you didn't respond to my query as to when the next crash of your beloved stock market would be

 

This statement showcases your problem in a nutshell. Comics have been good to you, you're emotionally invested as well as financially invested, and you take any suggestion that things won't be rosy forever as a personal affront and a disservice to others - they truly are "your beloved comics". On the other hand, I view the stock market as the stock market, not "my beloved stock market". I've been around long enough to know that markets go up and down. Some stocks can perform spectacularly while others can go to zero. Some zeroes can turn into heroes and vice versa. I don't get emotionally attached to stocks. Just because a stock has been good to me doesn't mean that I won't ruthlessly dispatch it from my portfolio if I think it's gotten overvalued and/or if I think the fundamentals are taking a prolonged turn for the worse.

 

I don't know when the next crash will be. What I do know is that stocks represent claims on real companies with real earnings and assets and that, over time, those companies can earn and grow their way back to recovery. In the fullness of time, good companies will make a lot of money and pay out a lot of dividends, while your comics will sit inert in their plastic tombs and require greater fools with deeper pockets to keep their prices rising. If stock prices crash, for those with a long-term horizon, it'll just give them the opportunity to buy low and earn greater returns.

 

The stock market crashed twice in the decade of the 2000s. And, yet, the S&P 500 is at an all-time high now, while many stocks that did not enter the last decade horrendously overvalued like the dot-coms have created enormous wealth over the past 15 years. Last I checked, there were no comic book investors on the Forbes 400 list, while the #2 guy on the list has kindly shown how a portfolio of productive assets can scarcely fail to outperform a portfolio of static/unproductive assets in the fullness of time. So, yeah...I think I'll stick with stocks and other productive assets over the next 20-30 years.

[ciorac]

You've been wrong predicting the demise of this hobby at least 10 years in a row, perhaps it is time to change predictions?

 

 

No one is predicting the demise of the hobby, least of all myself. And I'm not sure how I could have been wrong for the last 10 years - have I been predicting an imminent crash/demise every year that didn't come to pass? Even now I'm talking about a generational changeover that hasn't happened yet and may not come to pass for another 10-15 years or longer. Oh, but I see what you've done here - you've taken something I said in 2005 and just linearly extrapolated it to 2015 as if nothing changed in-between. Just like you're doing with the price trend on comic book keys for the past 10 years and extrapolating past performance indefinitely into the future.

 

 

And you didn't respond to my query as to when the next crash of your beloved stock market would be

 

This statement showcases your problem in a nutshell. Comics have been good to you, you're emotionally invested as well as financially invested, and you take any suggestion that things won't be rosy forever as a personal affront and a disservice to others - they truly are "your beloved comics". On the other hand, I view the stock market as the stock market, not "my beloved stock market". I've been around long enough to know that markets go up and down. Some stocks can perform spectacularly while others can go to zero. Some zeroes can turn into heroes and vice versa. I don't get emotionally attached to stocks. Just because a stock has been good to me doesn't mean that I won't ruthlessly dispatch it from my portfolio if I think it's gotten overvalued and/or if I think the fundamentals are taking a prolonged turn for the worse.

 

I don't know when the next crash will be. What I do know is that stocks represent claims on real companies with real earnings and assets and that, over time, those companies can earn and grow their way back to recovery. In the fullness of time, good companies will make a lot of money and pay out a lot of dividends, while your comics will sit inert in their plastic tombs and require greater fools with deeper pockets to keep their prices rising. If stock prices crash, for those with a long-term horizon, it'll just give them the opportunity to buy low and earn greater returns.

 

The stock market crashed twice in the decade of the 2000s. And, yet, the S&P 500 is at an all-time high now, while many stocks that did not enter the last decade horrendously overvalued like the dot-coms have created enormous wealth over the past 15 years. Last I checked, there were no comic book investors on the Forbes 400 list, while the #2 guy on the list has kindly shown how a portfolio of productive assets can scarcely fail to outperform a portfolio of static/unproductive assets in the fullness of time. So, yeah...I think I'll stick with stocks and other productive assets over the next 20-30 years.

 

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

And trust me, many of the top companies of this decade are driven by the masses which are asses, and they are the greater fools adding the the hundreds of billions of dollars the top companies enjoy. All markets are driven thusly, for the most part anyway.

 

However, I don't debate your stock acumen one iota. But your comic market acumen I do find suspect.

 

You are right, comics have been good to me, and not just financially. In ways stocks never could be good to me. Business has been much better to me financially, but not nearly as much in the intangible return on my investment

[Mmehdy]

You've been wrong predicting the demise of this hobby at least 10 years in a row, perhaps it is time to change predictions?

 

 

No one is predicting the demise of the hobby, least of all myself. And I'm not sure how I could have been wrong for the last 10 years - have I been predicting an imminent crash/demise every year that didn't come to pass? Even now I'm talking about a generational changeover that hasn't happened yet and may not come to pass for another 10-15 years or longer. Oh, but I see what you've done here - you've taken something I said in 2005 and just linearly extrapolated it to 2015 as if nothing changed in-between. Just like you're doing with the price trend on comic book keys for the past 10 years and extrapolating past performance indefinitely into the future.

 

 

And you didn't respond to my query as to when the next crash of your beloved stock market would be

 

This statement showcases your problem in a nutshell. Comics have been good to you, you're emotionally invested as well as financially invested, and you take any suggestion that things won't be rosy forever as a personal affront and a disservice to others - they truly are "your beloved comics". On the other hand, I view the stock market as the stock market, not "my beloved stock market". I've been around long enough to know that markets go up and down. Some stocks can perform spectacularly while others can go to zero. Some zeroes can turn into heroes and vice versa. I don't get emotionally attached to stocks. Just because a stock has been good to me doesn't mean that I won't ruthlessly dispatch it from my portfolio if I think it's gotten overvalued and/or if I think the fundamentals are taking a prolonged turn for the worse.

 

I don't know when the next crash will be. What I do know is that stocks represent claims on real companies with real earnings and assets and that, over time, those companies can earn and grow their way back to recovery. In the fullness of time, good companies will make a lot of money and pay out a lot of dividends, while your comics will sit inert in their plastic tombs and require greater fools with deeper pockets to keep their prices rising. If stock prices crash, for those with a long-term horizon, it'll just give them the opportunity to buy low and earn greater returns.

 

The stock market crashed twice in the decade of the 2000s. And, yet, the S&P 500 is at an all-time high now, while many stocks that did not enter the last decade horrendously overvalued like the dot-coms have created enormous wealth over the past 15 years. Last I checked, there were no comic book investors on the Forbes 400 list, while the #2 guy on the list has kindly shown how a portfolio of productive assets can scarcely fail to outperform a portfolio of static/unproductive assets in the fullness of time. So, yeah...I think I'll stick with stocks and other productive assets over the next 20-30 years.

 

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

And trust me, many of the top companies of this decade are driven by the masses which are asses, and they are the greater fools adding the the hundreds of billions of dollars the top companies enjoy. All markets are driven thusly, for the most part anyway.

 

However, I don't debate your stock acumen one iota. But your comic market acumen I do find suspect.

 

You are right, comics have been good to me, and not just financially. In ways stocks never could be good to me. Business has been much better to me financially, but not nearly as much in the intangible return on my investment

.

 

You cannot predict the future by looking backward to the past whether it is 10 years or in my case 40+..... Our comic book world has never been on a steeper Clift than it is today. The speculator controls the market prices the true comic book collectors no longer do, thanks to greed of the auction houses coupled with the cgc hype that your comic both is worth more than market price and in some instances 10 x more because our grader was in a good mood and with a special plastic case .... When true collectors are shut out.... Warning bells need to go off....

 

 

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

You've been wrong predicting the demise of this hobby at least 10 years in a row, perhaps it is time to change predictions?

 

 

No one is predicting the demise of the hobby, least of all myself. And I'm not sure how I could have been wrong for the last 10 years - have I been predicting an imminent crash/demise every year that didn't come to pass? Even now I'm talking about a generational changeover that hasn't happened yet and may not come to pass for another 10-15 years or longer. Oh, but I see what you've done here - you've taken something I said in 2005 and just linearly extrapolated it to 2015 as if nothing changed in-between. Just like you're doing with the price trend on comic book keys for the past 10 years and extrapolating past performance indefinitely into the future.

 

 

And you didn't respond to my query as to when the next crash of your beloved stock market would be

 

This statement showcases your problem in a nutshell. Comics have been good to you, you're emotionally invested as well as financially invested, and you take any suggestion that things won't be rosy forever as a personal affront and a disservice to others - they truly are "your beloved comics". On the other hand, I view the stock market as the stock market, not "my beloved stock market". I've been around long enough to know that markets go up and down. Some stocks can perform spectacularly while others can go to zero. Some zeroes can turn into heroes and vice versa. I don't get emotionally attached to stocks. Just because a stock has been good to me doesn't mean that I won't ruthlessly dispatch it from my portfolio if I think it's gotten overvalued and/or if I think the fundamentals are taking a prolonged turn for the worse.

 

I don't know when the next crash will be. What I do know is that stocks represent claims on real companies with real earnings and assets and that, over time, those companies can earn and grow their way back to recovery. In the fullness of time, good companies will make a lot of money and pay out a lot of dividends, while your comics will sit inert in their plastic tombs and require greater fools with deeper pockets to keep their prices rising. If stock prices crash, for those with a long-term horizon, it'll just give them the opportunity to buy low and earn greater returns.

 

The stock market crashed twice in the decade of the 2000s. And, yet, the S&P 500 is at an all-time high now, while many stocks that did not enter the last decade horrendously overvalued like the dot-coms have created enormous wealth over the past 15 years. Last I checked, there were no comic book investors on the Forbes 400 list, while the #2 guy on the list has kindly shown how a portfolio of productive assets can scarcely fail to outperform a portfolio of static/unproductive assets in the fullness of time. So, yeah...I think I'll stick with stocks and other productive assets over the next 20-30 years.

 

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

And trust me, many of the top companies of this decade are driven by the masses which are asses, and they are the greater fools adding the the hundreds of billions of dollars the top companies enjoy. All markets are driven thusly, for the most part anyway.

 

However, I don't debate your stock acumen one iota. But your comic market acumen I do find suspect.

 

You are right, comics have been good to me, and not just financially. In ways stocks never could be good to me. Business has been much better to me financially, but not nearly as much in the intangible return on my investment

.

 

You cannot predict the future by looking backward to the past whether it is 10 years or in my case 40+..... Our comic book world has never been on a steeper Clift than it is today. The speculator controls the market prices the true comic book collectors no longer do, thanks to greed of the auction houses coupled with the cgc hype that your comic both is worth more than market price and in some instances 10 x more because our grader was in a good mood and with a special plastic case .... When true collectors are shut out.... Warning bells need to go off....

 

 

 

 

 

Wait a minute how can you tell me real collectors are shut out?

 

What exactly are they shut out from?

 

Most comics books are still very affordable.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

You've been wrong predicting the demise of this hobby at least 10 years in a row, perhaps it is time to change predictions?

 

 

No one is predicting the demise of the hobby, least of all myself. And I'm not sure how I could have been wrong for the last 10 years - have I been predicting an imminent crash/demise every year that didn't come to pass? Even now I'm talking about a generational changeover that hasn't happened yet and may not come to pass for another 10-15 years or longer. Oh, but I see what you've done here - you've taken something I said in 2005 and just linearly extrapolated it to 2015 as if nothing changed in-between. Just like you're doing with the price trend on comic book keys for the past 10 years and extrapolating past performance indefinitely into the future.

 

 

And you didn't respond to my query as to when the next crash of your beloved stock market would be

 

This statement showcases your problem in a nutshell. Comics have been good to you, you're emotionally invested as well as financially invested, and you take any suggestion that things won't be rosy forever as a personal affront and a disservice to others - they truly are "your beloved comics". On the other hand, I view the stock market as the stock market, not "my beloved stock market". I've been around long enough to know that markets go up and down. Some stocks can perform spectacularly while others can go to zero. Some zeroes can turn into heroes and vice versa. I don't get emotionally attached to stocks. Just because a stock has been good to me doesn't mean that I won't ruthlessly dispatch it from my portfolio if I think it's gotten overvalued and/or if I think the fundamentals are taking a prolonged turn for the worse.

 

I don't know when the next crash will be. What I do know is that stocks represent claims on real companies with real earnings and assets and that, over time, those companies can earn and grow their way back to recovery. In the fullness of time, good companies will make a lot of money and pay out a lot of dividends, while your comics will sit inert in their plastic tombs and require greater fools with deeper pockets to keep their prices rising. If stock prices crash, for those with a long-term horizon, it'll just give them the opportunity to buy low and earn greater returns.

 

The stock market crashed twice in the decade of the 2000s. And, yet, the S&P 500 is at an all-time high now, while many stocks that did not enter the last decade horrendously overvalued like the dot-coms have created enormous wealth over the past 15 years. Last I checked, there were no comic book investors on the Forbes 400 list, while the #2 guy on the list has kindly shown how a portfolio of productive assets can scarcely fail to outperform a portfolio of static/unproductive assets in the fullness of time. So, yeah...I think I'll stick with stocks and other productive assets over the next 20-30 years.

 

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

And trust me, many of the top companies of this decade are driven by the masses which are asses, and they are the greater fools adding the the hundreds of billions of dollars the top companies enjoy. All markets are driven thusly, for the most part anyway.

 

However, I don't debate your stock acumen one iota. But your comic market acumen I do find suspect.

 

You are right, comics have been good to me, and not just financially. In ways stocks never could be good to me. Business has been much better to me financially, but not nearly as much in the intangible return on my investment

 

+1

 

Only a bona fide crack head would believe Uber is "worth" $41 billion and that the stock market is legitimately at 18k. If you're going to be losing sleep, you need to be losing sleep over that.

 

At least if my AF 15 goes down to $0 I still own the first appearance of spider-man. That, my friend, is where the intrinsic value of funny books lie.

 

-J.

[delekkerste]

+1

 

Only a bona fide crack head would believe Uber is "worth" $41 billion and that the stock market is legitimately at 18k. If you're going to be losing sleep, you need to be losing sleep over that.

 

At least if my AF 15 goes down to $0 I still own the first appearance of spider-man. That, my friend, is where the intrinsic value of funny books lie.

 

-J.

 

You're right, the intrinsic value of funny books is near zero. If the stock market goes down from here, it will generate earnings and make up the losses in time. If comic books fail to attract greater fools with deeper pockets, they have nothing to fall back on.

 

I suspect that Uber isn't worth $50 billion, but, since they're not public and we can't see their financials, I don't know how overvalued they might be or whether they might be able to grow into their valuation or not. In any case, pointing out Uber - which doesn't even have publicly traded stock - as an example of why stocks are overvalued, is like pointing out FF #45 or some other movie-hyped book to show that all comics are overvalued. And the Dow Jones Industrial Average at 18K trades at less than 16x earnings - hardly evidence of a bubble.

[prez]

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

Great to see that you're passionate about comics! But if you're thinking how comics made you happy in your death bed, you may want to spend more time with your wife and kids.

[accessndx]

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

Great to see that you're passionate about comics! But if you're thinking how comics made you happy in your death bed, you may want to spend more time with your wife and kids.

 

, like kids and wives are better than comics....LMAO!

 

Gimme a pile of comics I can lay in as I die anyday.

[delekkerste]

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

Who says it's either/or? I put my investment dollars to work in productive assets and I put my fun money into collectibles. In fact, I bet I have more fun with the hobby than most of you, as it's not tainted by being either a business or an investment for me (not that I think of it as a write-off, but it's definitely not something I'm counting on to make money or even hold its value over the long run). I just enjoy collecting comic art and socializing with the many friends I have made in this hobby - it's just pure fun for me.

[Peter G]

You've been wrong predicting the demise of this hobby at least 10 years in a row, perhaps it is time to change predictions?

 

 

No one is predicting the demise of the hobby, least of all myself. And I'm not sure how I could have been wrong for the last 10 years - have I been predicting an imminent crash/demise every year that didn't come to pass? Even now I'm talking about a generational changeover that hasn't happened yet and may not come to pass for another 10-15 years or longer. Oh, but I see what you've done here - you've taken something I said in 2005 and just linearly extrapolated it to 2015 as if nothing changed in-between. Just like you're doing with the price trend on comic book keys for the past 10 years and extrapolating past performance indefinitely into the future.

 

 

And you didn't respond to my query as to when the next crash of your beloved stock market would be

 

This statement showcases your problem in a nutshell. Comics have been good to you, you're emotionally invested as well as financially invested, and you take any suggestion that things won't be rosy forever as a personal affront and a disservice to others - they truly are "your beloved comics". On the other hand, I view the stock market as the stock market, not "my beloved stock market". I've been around long enough to know that markets go up and down. Some stocks can perform spectacularly while others can go to zero. Some zeroes can turn into heroes and vice versa. I don't get emotionally attached to stocks. Just because a stock has been good to me doesn't mean that I won't ruthlessly dispatch it from my portfolio if I think it's gotten overvalued and/or if I think the fundamentals are taking a prolonged turn for the worse.

 

I don't know when the next crash will be. What I do know is that stocks represent claims on real companies with real earnings and assets and that, over time, those companies can earn and grow their way back to recovery. In the fullness of time, good companies will make a lot of money and pay out a lot of dividends, while your comics will sit inert in their plastic tombs and require greater fools with deeper pockets to keep their prices rising. If stock prices crash, for those with a long-term horizon, it'll just give them the opportunity to buy low and earn greater returns.

 

The stock market crashed twice in the decade of the 2000s. And, yet, the S&P 500 is at an all-time high now, while many stocks that did not enter the last decade horrendously overvalued like the dot-coms have created enormous wealth over the past 15 years. Last I checked, there were no comic book investors on the Forbes 400 list, while the #2 guy on the list has kindly shown how a portfolio of productive assets can scarcely fail to outperform a portfolio of static/unproductive assets in the fullness of time. So, yeah...I think I'll stick with stocks and other productive assets over the next 20-30 years.

 

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

And trust me, many of the top companies of this decade are driven by the masses which are asses, and they are the greater fools adding the the hundreds of billions of dollars the top companies enjoy. All markets are driven thusly, for the most part anyway.

 

However, I don't debate your stock acumen one iota. But your comic market acumen I do find suspect.

 

You are right, comics have been good to me, and not just financially. In ways stocks never could be good to me. Business has been much better to me financially, but not nearly as much in the intangible return on my investment

 

+1

 

Only a bona fide crack head would believe Uber is "worth" $41 billion and that the stock market is legitimately at 18k. If you're going to be losing sleep, you need to be losing sleep over that.

 

At least if my AF 15 goes down to $0 I still own the first appearance of spider-man. That, my friend, is where the intrinsic value of funny books lie.

 

-J.

 

You are a wise man Sam Malone

[drbanner]

Getting a little hot in here...

[ciorac]

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

Who says it's either/or? I put my investment dollars to work in productive assets and I put my fun money into collectibles. In fact, I bet I have more fun with the hobby than most of you, as it's not tainted by being either a business or an investment for me (not that I think of it as a write-off, but it's definitely not something I'm counting on to make money or even hold its value over the long run). I just enjoy collecting comic art and socializing with the many friends I have made in this hobby - it's just pure fun for me.

 

(thumbs u

 

On this we can agree. Therein lies the true value

[Mmehdy]

You've been wrong predicting the demise of this hobby at least 10 years in a row, perhaps it is time to change predictions?

 

 

No one is predicting the demise of the hobby, least of all myself. And I'm not sure how I could have been wrong for the last 10 years - have I been predicting an imminent crash/demise every year that didn't come to pass? Even now I'm talking about a generational changeover that hasn't happened yet and may not come to pass for another 10-15 years or longer. Oh, but I see what you've done here - you've taken something I said in 2005 and just linearly extrapolated it to 2015 as if nothing changed in-between. Just like you're doing with the price trend on comic book keys for the past 10 years and extrapolating past performance indefinitely into the future.

 

 

And you didn't respond to my query as to when the next crash of your beloved stock market would be

 

This statement showcases your problem in a nutshell. Comics have been good to you, you're emotionally invested as well as financially invested, and you take any suggestion that things won't be rosy forever as a personal affront and a disservice to others - they truly are "your beloved comics". On the other hand, I view the stock market as the stock market, not "my beloved stock market". I've been around long enough to know that markets go up and down. Some stocks can perform spectacularly while others can go to zero. Some zeroes can turn into heroes and vice versa. I don't get emotionally attached to stocks. Just because a stock has been good to me doesn't mean that I won't ruthlessly dispatch it from my portfolio if I think it's gotten overvalued and/or if I think the fundamentals are taking a prolonged turn for the worse.

 

I don't know when the next crash will be. What I do know is that stocks represent claims on real companies with real earnings and assets and that, over time, those companies can earn and grow their way back to recovery. In the fullness of time, good companies will make a lot of money and pay out a lot of dividends, while your comics will sit inert in their plastic tombs and require greater fools with deeper pockets to keep their prices rising. If stock prices crash, for those with a long-term horizon, it'll just give them the opportunity to buy low and earn greater returns.

 

The stock market crashed twice in the decade of the 2000s. And, yet, the S&P 500 is at an all-time high now, while many stocks that did not enter the last decade horrendously overvalued like the dot-coms have created enormous wealth over the past 15 years. Last I checked, there were no comic book investors on the Forbes 400 list, while the #2 guy on the list has kindly shown how a portfolio of productive assets can scarcely fail to outperform a portfolio of static/unproductive assets in the fullness of time. So, yeah...I think I'll stick with stocks and other productive assets over the next 20-30 years.

 

Well, there you have it. I'll have more fun playing with my beloved comics, and you'll strive to be on the Fortune list. At the end of the day, I wonder who will die happier?

 

And trust me, many of the top companies of this decade are driven by the masses which are asses, and they are the greater fools adding the the hundreds of billions of dollars the top companies enjoy. All markets are driven thusly, for the most part anyway.

 

However, I don't debate your stock acumen one iota. But your comic market acumen I do find suspect.

 

You are right, comics have been good to me, and not just financially. In ways stocks never could be good to me. Business has been much better to me financially, but not nearly as much in the intangible return on my investment

.

 

You cannot predict the future by looking backward to the past whether it is 10 years or in my case 40+..... Our comic book world has never been on a steeper Clift than it is today. The speculator controls the market prices the true comic book collectors no longer do, thanks to greed of the auction houses coupled with the cgc hype that your comic both is worth more than market price and in some instances 10 x more because our grader was in a good mood and with a special plastic case .... When true collectors are shut out.... Warning bells need to go off....

 

 

 

 

 

Wait a minute how can you tell me real collectors are shut out?

 

What exactly are they shut out from?

 

Most comics books are still very affordable.

 

 

We are tailing on this thead about "key" comics....if we are taking about non-key books then that is why is left to the true collector at both a reasonable and non speculated affordable price and everyday the word "key" gets hyped up and included by auction houses hype on more and more comic books ...... It no-longer has to be a 2+ million dollar action #1....there are kinds of books today being hyped as keys selling for multiple times or guide or reason.