Please grade my Flash #123 before it goes to CGC

[all4comics]

The stain is almost like a sticky smudge. Almost like if a sticker was removed and that substance was left when removed... but it’s not from a sticker. NO transfer to the interior side of the cover. I will send it to Trace @ eclipsepaper for removal. She's in Canada

 

He is in Canada. I would go with Matt Nelson. I don't believe that Tracey Heft will press the book for you without taking it apart, which will get you the purple label.

 

I guess you need to press it after the stain is removed? Or can it be done without the Press?

[FFB]

The stain is almost like a sticky smudge. Almost like if a sticker was removed and that substance was left when removed... but it’s not from a sticker. NO transfer to the interior side of the cover. I will send it to Trace @ eclipsepaper for removal. She's in Canada

 

He is in Canada. I would go with Matt Nelson. I don't believe that Tracey Heft will press the book for you without taking it apart, which will get you the purple label.

 

I guess you need to press it after the stain is removed? Or can it be done without the Press?

 

If you want to try for a 9.0, you'll need to press it. If you just want the stain removed, then a press might not be necessary. it depends on what needs to be done to remove the stain. You might just email Matt and send him a scan with a close-up of the stain (and verbal description) at spectre52@aol.com and ask him what he thinks.

[VintageComics]

Very nice book....Trace could press the book without taking it apart, and also would be very handy in removing the smudge (if possible) or giving options. My experience with CGC is that the downgrade for a stain depends heavily on where it is, how prominant it is, does it go through the cover, the rest of the book, etc. I owned an X men #1 CGC 8.5 that was downgraded for the same type of LRC crease and grey "oil" stain in white of the cover. Since this does not go through the cover, and is not offensive as far as eye appeal, you have a great shot at a 8.5. Having said that, sending it to a pro conservationist for a lookover is worth the effort and may net a 9.0.

[Aces]

8.0

Could go half a grade either way though...

[Tomega]

6.0/6.5

 

The stain and spine ding/crease will bring it down to that range. I respectfully think the Heritage issue is significantly better. I hope you do get a 8.5 but I do not think it is going to happen.

[Hobgoblin]

I say don't bother with the CGC. You should just sell it to me for $30 and save the trouble

[FFB]

6.0/6.5

 

The stain and spine ding/crease will bring it down to that range. I respectfully think the Heritage issue is significantly better. I hope you do get a 8.5 but I do not think it is going to happen.

 

With all due respect, tomega, you are nuts if you think that book will grade out at 6.0/6.5.

[all4comics]

6.0/6.5

 

The stain and spine ding/crease will bring it down to that range. I respectfully think the Heritage issue is significantly better. I hope you do get a 8.5 but I do not think it is going to happen.

 

NO dings? Its just one spine stress that made a dimple crease

 

Did you see the scan of the back cover on the Heritage one? I mean its missing two of its corners and you can see a piece that's about to fall off. Its also has multiple dust shadow's and about 6 stresses on the spine? If anything, that copy should have been a 6.5 and not an 8.0, but this is why grading is so subjective.

[Fan4Fan]

 

Where's the [#@$%!!!] stain?

 

[DiceX]

 

Where's the [#@$%!!!] stain?

 

 

The placement of the "stain" is ironic.

 

[VintageComics]

 

Where's the [#@$%!!!] stain?

 

 

The placement of the "stain" is ironic.

 

 

[Fan4Fan]

Danke!

 

I thought that might be it after staring for ten minutes.

 

I appreciate it!

[Tomega]

6.0/6.5

 

The stain and spine ding/crease will bring it down to that range. I respectfully think the Heritage issue is significantly better. I hope you do get a 8.5 but I do not think it is going to happen.

 

With all due respect, tomega, you are nuts if you think that book will grade out at 6.0/6.5.

I am not sure which grading scale you use, but since when can there be staining in a 8.0 or above? Overstreet does not even mention staining until you go down 6.0. Granted , you must take into account the good condition and minimal defects on this book but CGC absolutely hammers staining, you mentioned something similar. If you get that glue off ( tape or price tag residue) I would say it would hit an 8.0 or better. Since none of us know the standards that CGC uses, Overstreet is the barometer and with the stain, it should not hit higher then 6.5. But like was said earlier, grading is subjective.

[FFB]

6.0/6.5

 

The stain and spine ding/crease will bring it down to that range. I respectfully think the Heritage issue is significantly better. I hope you do get a 8.5 but I do not think it is going to happen.

 

With all due respect, tomega, you are nuts if you think that book will grade out at 6.0/6.5.

I am not sure which grading scale you use, but since when can there be staining in a 8.0 or above? Overstreet does not even mention staining until you go down 6.0. Granted , you must take into account the good condition and minimal defects on this book but CGC absolutely hammers staining, you mentioned something similar. If you get that glue off ( tape or price tag residue) I would say it would hit an 8.0 or better. Since none of us know the standards that CGC uses, Overstreet is the barometer and with the stain, it should not hit higher then 6.5. But like was said earlier, grading is subjective.

 

I use Overstreet, just like CGC does.

 

As for Overstreet's treatment of stains, please see "Hidden Defects" for the Silver Surfer #1 VF 8.0 on page 208 of your Overstreet Grading Guide. Or see the Top Notch #1 VF+ 8.5 on page 200 of your Guide (light soiling).

 

The Guide says that there is no "obvious" soiling, staining, etc. allowed in VF. But then it shows two books in the VF+/VF section with soiling/stains. Remember what Arnold says every time someone looks at the Guide and says "But the guide says no ________ are allowed in grade X.X!!!" These are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. A nearly invisible stain on an otherwise VF/NM book does not drop the book down to a Fine.

[all4comics]

6.0/6.5

 

The stain and spine ding/crease will bring it down to that range. I respectfully think the Heritage issue is significantly better. I hope you do get a 8.5 but I do not think it is going to happen.

 

With all due respect, tomega, you are nuts if you think that book will grade out at 6.0/6.5.

I am not sure which grading scale you use, but since when can there be staining in a 8.0 or above? Overstreet does not even mention staining until you go down 6.0. Granted , you must take into account the good condition and minimal defects on this book but CGC absolutely hammers staining, you mentioned something similar. If you get that glue off ( tape or price tag residue) I would say it would hit an 8.0 or better. Since none of us know the standards that CGC uses, Overstreet is the barometer and with the stain, it should not hit higher then 6.5. But like was said earlier, grading is subjective.

 

I use Overstreet, just like CGC does.

 

As for Overstreet's treatment of stains, please see "Hidden Defects" for the Silver Surfer #1 VF 8.0 on page 208 of your Overstreet Grading Guide. Or see the Top Notch #1 VF+ 8.5 on page 200 of your Guide (light soiling).

 

The Guide says that there is no "obvious" soiling, staining, etc. allowed in VF. But then it shows two books in the VF+/VF section with soiling/stains. Remember what Arnold says every time someone looks at the Guide and says "But the guide says no ________ are allowed in grade X.X!!!" These are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. A nearly invisible stain on an otherwise VF/NM book does not drop the book down to a Fine.

 

It also states in the "The 2nd Edition Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide” under the VF 8.0/8.5 intro page that minor soiling is allowed

[Aces]

 

Where's the [#@$%!!!] stain?

 

 

The placement of the "stain" is ironic.

 

 

[Jeffreykli]

I am not sure which grading scale you use, but since when can there be staining in a 8.0 or above? Overstreet does not even mention staining until you go down 6.0. Granted , you must take into account the good condition and minimal defects on this book but CGC absolutely hammers staining, you mentioned something similar. If you get that glue off ( tape or price tag residue) I would say it would hit an 8.0 or better. Since none of us know the standards that CGC uses, Overstreet is the barometer and with the stain, it should not hit higher then 6.5. But like was said earlier, grading is subjective.

 

I have several books, all in 8.0 and 8.5, where the major defect is a small stain. It's true that CGC hammers stains, but if the book otherwise presents well and is structurally sound, VF and VF+ are possible.

[Tomega]

6.0/6.5

 

The stain and spine ding/crease will bring it down to that range. I respectfully think the Heritage issue is significantly better. I hope you do get a 8.5 but I do not think it is going to happen.

 

With all due respect, tomega, you are nuts if you think that book will grade out at 6.0/6.5.

I am not sure which grading scale you use, but since when can there be staining in a 8.0 or above? Overstreet does not even mention staining until you go down 6.0. Granted , you must take into account the good condition and minimal defects on this book but CGC absolutely hammers staining, you mentioned something similar. If you get that glue off ( tape or price tag residue) I would say it would hit an 8.0 or better. Since none of us know the standards that CGC uses, Overstreet is the barometer and with the stain, it should not hit higher then 6.5. But like was said earlier, grading is subjective.

 

I use Overstreet, just like CGC does.

 

As for Overstreet's treatment of stains, please see "Hidden Defects" for the Silver Surfer #1 VF 8.0 on page 208 of your Overstreet Grading Guide. Or see the Top Notch #1 VF+ 8.5 on page 200 of your Guide (light soiling).

 

The Guide says that there is no "obvious" soiling, staining, etc. allowed in VF. But then it shows two books in the VF+/VF section with soiling/stains. Remember what Arnold says every time someone looks at the Guide and says "But the guide says no ________ are allowed in grade X.X!!!" These are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. A nearly invisible stain on an otherwise VF/NM book does not drop the book down to a Fine.

 

CGC uses the Overstreet grading guide - care to show me anywhere on their web site that or any article that states that? Are they consulting pictures like you do for from a OGG 2nd edition? Maybe they have a hotline , like the bat phone to Blumberg. CGC has its own standards and the some of them are different then Overstreet. Obviously, there is going to be commonalities and ,obviously, Steve Borock and company started with Overstreet as a basis.

 

To me, the stain on his comic is not a "nearly invisible stain," it is clearly visible. It is more of tape residue or similar, rather then a true stain. Care to show the stains on the two comics you mention? Speaking of which, CGC will not grade a comic from 1939 ( the Top Notch#1) the same as a 1950's, 60's or later- or is that what you think? CGC will even allow tape on those golden age comics whose grades should be lower if you used Overstreet. I could show tons of other pictures from the grading guides, Heritage, and scans of my own slabs that show just the opposite of your point.

 

I never said the comic is VF/NM - is that what you think it is ,a 9.0? Nor did I ever say comic that is a 9.0 will drop to 6.0 because of "nearly invisible stain." I said the comic is a 6.0/6.5 and would be an 8.0 or higher without the stain. A drop of 1.5 grading points is not unreasonable for stain/residue, I do not know where you came up with me stating a vf/nm would drop to a f. I am well aware that the OCC is a guide but the combination of the the color of the staples, the spine, and the residue = I still say it should be a 6.0/6.5.

 

Bottom line, which I have already said, grading is subjective. You have yours and I have mine. I do wonder who would people rather purchase - my 6.5 or your 8.5?

[FFB]

6.0/6.5

 

The stain and spine ding/crease will bring it down to that range. I respectfully think the Heritage issue is significantly better. I hope you do get a 8.5 but I do not think it is going to happen.

 

With all due respect, tomega, you are nuts if you think that book will grade out at 6.0/6.5.

I am not sure which grading scale you use, but since when can there be staining in a 8.0 or above? Overstreet does not even mention staining until you go down 6.0. Granted , you must take into account the good condition and minimal defects on this book but CGC absolutely hammers staining, you mentioned something similar. If you get that glue off ( tape or price tag residue) I would say it would hit an 8.0 or better. Since none of us know the standards that CGC uses, Overstreet is the barometer and with the stain, it should not hit higher then 6.5. But like was said earlier, grading is subjective.

 

I use Overstreet, just like CGC does.

 

As for Overstreet's treatment of stains, please see "Hidden Defects" for the Silver Surfer #1 VF 8.0 on page 208 of your Overstreet Grading Guide. Or see the Top Notch #1 VF+ 8.5 on page 200 of your Guide (light soiling).

 

The Guide says that there is no "obvious" soiling, staining, etc. allowed in VF. But then it shows two books in the VF+/VF section with soiling/stains. Remember what Arnold says every time someone looks at the Guide and says "But the guide says no ________ are allowed in grade X.X!!!" These are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. A nearly invisible stain on an otherwise VF/NM book does not drop the book down to a Fine.

 

CGC uses the Overstreet grading guide - care to show me anywhere on their web site that or any article that states that? Are they consulting pictures like you do for from a OGG 2nd edition? Maybe they have a hotline , like the bat phone to Blumberg. CGC has its own standards and the some of them are different then Overstreet. Obviously, there is going to be commonalities and ,obviously, Steve Borock and company started with Overstreet as a basis.

 

Last year at WonderCon, Steve Borock told me about the discussions leading to the current grading system. He specifically said when the issue came up back in 1999/2000, that CGC said it would use whatever grading system Overstreet came up with.

 

CGC's grades are simply CGC's interpretations of the standards. That is why there are CGC graded books pictured in the guide. That is also why the few times that Steve has come on here to discuss a grade of a CGC graded book (most recently the CGC 9.9 copy of Tomb of Dracula #10), Steve has defended CGC's grade in terms of what the Overstreet Guide permits.

 

Are there variances between some CGC grades and the text of what Overstreet "allows" in a given grade? Yes. But there are also variances between the text of Overstreet and the pictures in Overstreet itself. The Overstreet Guide is a guide, not a set of hard and fast rules.

 

The bottom line is that CGC is using Overstreet standards, and each CGC grade is simply CGC's interpretation of those standards.

[all4comics]

 

CGC uses the Overstreet grading guide - care to show me anywhere on their web site that or any article that states that? Are they consulting pictures like you do for from a OGG 2nd edition? Maybe they have a hotline , like the bat phone to Blumberg. CGC has its own standards and the some of them are different then Overstreet. Obviously, there is going to be commonalities and ,obviously, Steve Borock and company started with Overstreet as a basis.

 

To me, the stain on his comic is not a "nearly invisible stain," it is clearly visible. It is more of tape residue or similar, rather then a true stain. Care to show the stains on the two comics you mention? Speaking of which, CGC will not grade a comic from 1939 ( the Top Notch#1) the same as a 1950's, 60's or later- or is that what you think? CGC will even allow tape on those golden age comics whose grades should be lower if you used Overstreet. I could show tons of other pictures from the grading guides, Heritage, and scans of my own slabs that show just the opposite of your point.

 

I never said the comic is VF/NM - is that what you think it is ,a 9.0? Nor did I ever say comic that is a 9.0 will drop to 6.0 because of "nearly invisible stain." I said the comic is a 6.0/6.5 and would be an 8.0 or higher without the stain. A drop of 1.5 grading points is not unreasonable for stain/residue, I do not know where you came up with me stating a vf/nm would drop to a f. I am well aware that the OCC is a guide but the combination of the the color of the staples, the spine, and the residue = I still say it should be a 6.0/6.5.

 

Bottom line, which I have already said, grading is subjective. You have yours and I have mine. I do wonder who would people rather purchase - my 6.5 or your 8.5?

 

I showed it to a couple of experience SA collectors in person today and they both agreed that it’s not a stain and it’s just soiled on the surface of the paper. It hasn’t caused any discoloration to the paper or went through the cover. Both said that it’s a solid VF with the soiled substance, but they both agreed that it would be an 8.5/9.0 without it. I'm sending this week to have just the stain removed then I will send it to CGC. I will post once I get it back.

 

Now, another question…. is there a difference between a comic that is stained and one that is soiled? How would CGC treat it?