Just how bad does Mile High Grade?!??!?

[joecgcmaniac]

Okay, last month i bought 2 supposedly "near-mint to mint" issues from mile high comics. Needless to say, very fine would be a biggggg stretch. So, my question to all of you is, just how lopsided is mile high's grading? Do they overgrade the books they sell and undergrade the books they buy or what? Or does Chuck simply live in 1975 when it comes to grading? Any feedback or horror stories from experience?

[Rickdogg]

I think they have people who are blind grade their books. I went to their location in California and was laughing at all of the comics with the "NM" labels.

[joecgcmaniac]

No doubt when it comes to them selling the books, anything that has all the staples, covers and pages might qualify as near mint. When they buy i wonder if they institute cgc-like standards?

[joecgcmaniac]

Hey rick, let me guess, their location in california is in anaheim, right? Inside disneyland, just a little place known as fantasyland?

[Rickdogg]

They are in Garden Grove or Westminster.

[joecgcmaniac]

What really made me "fall in love" with my order was the way it was shipped. Bagged but not boarded, and with absolutely no packaging to protect the books. Then to top it off, they were placed into a box that had been folded closed and taped at the one end where the folds met. When the ups guy dropped the box off, the tape was barely holding, and one of the books had almost come out of the box! About the worst packing for a comic i've ever seen.

 

[murph0]

I've bought the following from them

ASM 53 "NM/M" Actual Grade: VF

ASM 70 "NM/M" Actual Grade: VF-

ASM 102 "NM/M" Actual Grade: F+

ASM 121 "NM/M" Actual Grade: F/VF

ASM 129 "NM/M" Actual Grade: VF

 

Brian

[joecgcmaniac]

Yeah, the two i bought were:

 

Star Wars #106 NM/M actual VG/F (after its escape attempt)

Star Wars #107 NM/M actual F/VF

[Tomega]

Mile High is the absolutely worst large comic dealer in existence when it comes to grading. I have never had an order from them that was on the money. The worst was when I ordered a ASM 35 in near mint and it arrived in vg condition. This company does not have any quality control standards and has become a complete, utter joke when it comes to grading. They continuously charge exorbitant premium prices ( even with their 40% sales) yet grossly over grade. They are a complete disservice to the comic market and Chuck should be ashamed of himself for STEALING from people who do not know better when they buy his crapola. Take a look at this forum from the past couple of years - not a single person here thinks they know how to grade. Chuck is only interested in making money and does not care how he makes it. I've ordered from them 3 times over the past two years and I have been dissappointed with almost everything. I hope they go out of business and Chuck stays out of the comic business - enough of the riding of the coat tails of a collection that he probably bought for pennies of the dollar.

 

Get my point?

Tomega

[joecgcmaniac]

No wonder Chuck was so worried that Overstreet might implement tougher grading standards. If CGC grading became the universal norm, Mile High would probably lose 25-40% of its value if all their books were to be graded "CGC style".

[cd4ever]

What I don't get is, how in the world does he stay in business when it's well known how bad his grading is? You shouldn't be able to survive without repeat business.

[aardvark88]

Chuck survives by having a huge inventory of back issues constantly in stock. Some of the buyers don't know any better b/c they assume Mile High knows how to grade nm since their website & email /new issue subscriber list is large.

[joe_collector]

Yeah, but in the long run his business model is toast. Every day he loses clients and more people discover EBay. Soon the majority of his backstock will be worthless and then it'll be time to pay the piper.

[spidermanbeyond]

I'll echo the same consensus that Mile High does not know how to grade. I finally went to the store in Anaheim California and was totally disappointed that the only near mint comics were the new issues. I am sure there was not one real Near Mint comic in all of back issue bins even though the sticker says Near Mint. Part of the problem comes from comic boxes with the handle inside just high enough to ding up the books on the spine (who makes these?). Add the fact that people rifle through these boxes and a Near Mint becauses history. Plus the books were probably not Near Mint to begin with; VF at best. I don't know how Chuck gets away with his terrible grading. He has been doing this for over 30 years. I bought some books from him 20 years ago and never again.

[clarkkentdds]

I ordered 2 books from them last year...returned them. I will never buy from them again. Complete joke!

[COI]

This is directly from his site, written by Chuck himself. Some might call it an insight to his grading mentality. I call it a justification to over-grading.

 

This week's column is a continuation of my series on comic book grading standards. As many of you already know, this topic came to the forefront after I recently discovered that the staff at Overstreet publications is presently accepting feedback on how to revise the comic book grading standards that they have had in place for the past 30 years. The reason they are planning this revision in their standards is a "negotiation" that is presently being held between the creators of THE OVERSTREET COMIC BOOK PRICE GUIDE and representative of Comics Guarantee LLC., the only company that presently provides third-party grading verification within the comics field.

 

This has all come about because CGC has taken it upon themselves to implement more stringent standards in the higher grades (9.2-10.0) than the decades-old Overstreet standards. By their own admission, the Overstreet team is contemplating bowing to CGC's desires for a unified standard that more closely adheres to the CGC view of grading. My position on the matter is that I believe it is grossly unfair for the Overstreet team to change the grading rules that individual collectors have utilized to base their purchasing decisions for the the past 30 years. This unilateral revision has the potential to wipe out millions of dollars of accumulated value in private collections, while only benefiting CGC in the process.

 

Moving on in my continuing discussion of grading standards, I want to delve this week into the specific criteria required for a comic to be classified as "Near Mint." In the 1992 edition of THE OVERSTREET GRADING GUIDE "Near Mint" was defined as any comic with a grade between 9.1-9.7. The following minor defects were specifically allowed in the photographs shown in this grade:

 

9.7

Very Light Corner Abrasion

Pencilled Arrival Date

Tiny, Very Light Corner Crease

Light Rusty Staples

 

 

9.6

Very Light Edge Warping

Very Light Crease

Bindery Corner

Tiny Corner Nick

Normal Wavy Surface Along Spine (For Perfect-bound Books)

Heavy Object Crease

Tiny Piece Out

Small Color Scrape

Tiny Staple Stress

Light Spine Stress Lines

Slight Bindery Defect (Off Center Printing)

Tiny Spine Wear

Multiple Tiny Color Flecks

 

 

9.5

Bindery Corner

Erased Number

Tiny Corner Crease

Light "Foxing" (Mold Stain) on Spine

 

 

9.4

Pencilled Name and Price on Cover

Faint Dust Shadow on Edge

Tiny Corner Piece Out

Light Foxing on Edge and Spine

Heavy Object Crease

 

 

9.3 & 9.2

No Examples Shown

 

 

9.1

Creases Caused by Impact at Edge

Tiny Transverse Spine Creases

Multiple Color Flecks

 

 

After you've read through this long listing of allowable defects in the Near Mint grade, it should be clear that the original Overstreet standards did not require comics in Near Mint to be anything close to perfect. In fact, in several instances, multiple defects were allowed on a single book without it falling out of the Near Mint category. The overriding considerations were that a comic book in Near Mint have "Only minor imperfections," and that it exhibit the characteristics of being "As if it were just purchased from the newsstand, and read once or twice."

 

In my opinion, Overstreet got it right the first time. I am forever having to remind people that the first word in "Near Mint" is "Near." Near in this context means close to, but not exactly the same. As far as I'm concerned, that definition works quite well when grading comics. The vast majority of comics come from the printing plant with minor defects incurred long before they reach the ultimate consumer. Even the Edgar Church comics, which were read once (if at all...), and then stored in a dark closet for 35 years, exhibited some of the minor flaws listed above. Given the poor handling of comics at the printing plant, during the distribution process, and by indifferent store clerks, I think it is completely unrealistic to expect the vast majority of books will not have some minor flaws. Especially if they're more than 30 years old. That's why it's called "Near Mint." Yet CGC is very restrictive in what they will allow in the 9.4 category, and they very seldom allow comics to reach the "elite" status of 9.6. Actually, I believe that almost every new comic being printed would qualify as a 9.6 by Overstreet's 1992 standards, yet CGC has chosen to severely limit the number of issues they allow in the 9.6 category. The same is true of all the other grades above 9.2.

 

Complicating this matter even further, it is infuriating that CGC will not publish an actual set of grading standards that they utilize when examining books. How exactly are we supposed to comment on the proposed new Overstreet grading standards when we have no idea what CGC is proposing as an alternative? Barring any new standards with which to compare, I would vote that we keep the standards as listed in the 1992 grading guide. If the 1992 guide needs to be revised, then I would suggest working on better picture quality, and better descriptions, so as to clarify the existing standards. CGC then needs to simply start adhering to the industry standards that were in place before they arrived, and stop severely downgrading comics with any of the minor defects listed above. For them to do otherwise would be an unfair reduction in the market value of their customers comics.[i/]

 

 

[Rickdogg]

He's just [!@#%^&^] because he calls everything a NM

[lighthouse]

I really hesitate to come out pro-Mile High here... and maybe I should switch to my 'phatty' or 'joanna' id before I do, but oh well...

 

Mile High is inconsistent in their grading because they CAN be. They are not in the business of selling books where grade is an issue. They just aren't. People here talk about how their crappy grading will lose them customers and eventually bankrupt the company. It's just not true. Mile High is NOT in the business of selling accurately graded comics. That just isn't their business model (at least not through the internet).

 

Their business model is to stock every issue of every comic all the time, at prices determined by their current inventory rather than the market, and to be able to fill as many orders as possible. They make their money because they know exactly how many copies of Bloodshot #3 they have in stock and where to find it, not by buying and selling high grade Bronze and Silver.

 

They sell valuable back issues as an afterthought, not as a primary revenue stream. They care a lot more about their ability to fill an order of Uncanny 292, Thor 408, and Spawn 7 than about spending the time grading high-dollar books. They are the "Retailer of Last Resort" for collectors all over the world, who are tired of looking for that stupid $3 issue that no one seems to have. I have personally ordered books from them for customers that I KNOW I have in stock, but can't afford to spend the time going through random 90's boxes to find.

 

Common back issues cost me around 4 cents a book, (and cost Mile High even less). The reason I can sell them for $2-3 is the labor that went in to sorting and inventorying them. Mile High has the benefits of huge economies of scale, has employees who just count books all day, has a mainframe that tracks every issue in inventory and adjusts prices every day to match the current stock level. That's where their capital investment is, that's where their personnel investment is, that's where their money comes from.

 

From a business standpoint, Chuck doesn't care whether murph0, clarkkentdds, joecgcmaniac and spidermanbeyond are happy with their purchases. Because folks like us are not his target customers. I sell Yu-Gi-Oh cards in my shop, and if half my Yu-Gi-Oh customers think my store sucks because my prices on Yu-Gi-Oh cards are all wrong, I really don't care. I do what I can to serve those customers' needs, but in the long run they are not the customers I care about. My store is not in the business of selling Yu-Gi-Oh. It's that simple. I do so as a convenience. And you can get as preachy as you like about every customer deserving the best service you can provide, but it's a crock. Every business has customers that are very important and customers that are not. That's just business. If I go to McDonald's because I really like their Oriental Chicken Salad, and they lose me as a customer when they stop carrying it, should they care? I don't think so...

 

As far as my own dealings with Mile High, I have picked up a couple dozen Mile High II books over the last few years and was pleased with around 80% of them. I have been very satisfied with their grading on all the post-1990 stuff that I have ordered from them. And I stopped ordering older books from them after receiving a "Fine" that was missing half the back cover (although to be fair the rest of that order was within half a grade of accurate).

 

You wouldn't go to Wal-Mart for out-of-print items, why go to Mile High for them?

[B-Smooth]

maybe he will read this post and find the "clue" hes been needing all these years!

[supapimp]

nah, you kidding me? as he reported in CBG #1529, he sold a VG copy of hulk 181 for $432.00, who else can sell VG copies for that much?