The Ultimate Dennis the Menace Thread 4 4

[Wiseguy-migration]

Man, I'm am learning stuff on a daily basis. I always thought the art in Clubhouse Rascals reminded me of Wiseman's work. Now I understand the connection.

 

******************************************************

Cool, I have never seen the "Clubhouse Rascals" before.

I see some similaritys in the drawings particularly the ears and mouths.

I sorta remember the crenshaws. I think my dad played golf with George.

I know my mom always stayed in touch with the Crenshaws.

 

JRW

[Wiseguy-migration]

I found this. Note on the bottom right of the card, reference to the book usage.

JRW

[balger-migration]

I sorta remember the crenshaws. I think my dad played golf with George.

I know my mom always stayed in touch with the Crenshaws.

JRW

 

Hi Jim,

I'll have to look through my notes for details, but your father was friends with George Crenshaw before they worked on Dennis. After Al stopped working on Dennis, he drew gag cartoons for Crenshaw's "Master Agency" (into the 1970's) and ghosted Crenshaw's comic strip "Belvedere" from time to time.

 

Bill A.

[BillyBatson4360]

I have never seen the "Clubhouse Rascals" before.

I see some similaritys in the drawings particularly the ears and mouths

 

Jim, how did you see some similarities when no artwork from Clubhouse Rascals has been posted here yet?

 

I hope to post some tonight.

[Wiseguy-migration]

I have never seen the "Clubhouse Rascals" before.

I see some similaritys in the drawings particularly the ears and mouths

 

Jim, how did you see some similarities when no artwork from Clubhouse Rascals has been posted here yet?

 

I hope to post some tonight.

 

************************************************************

 

Sorry...I cheated and Goggled.

I got this:

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=17656445340%202

I swear I only looked at one cover.

Now I am really curious.

 

But as long as we are on the subject.

If you notice, the head of AW's DTM is mostly a circle.

I would notice when he gave a chalk talk that Al would start his hand in a circle a couple of times before making contact with the paper.

Kinda like taking practice swings.

 

JRW

[Jon-migration]

 

I actually have a weaknesses for any comics (like the aforementioned Clubhouse Rascals) that were later reprinted by the I-W/Super outfit in the early 60's. For those not familiar with these comics. In the early sixties, an outfit alternately known as either I-W or Super (same company, tho') got the rights to reprint several defunct comic books from several publishers, including Timely's line of funny animal comics, Super Brat from Toby Press, The Brain (another great unsung strip by Dan DeCarlo), and various titles from Magazine Enterprises (M-E). They also reprinted super-hero material from Quality Comics including Jack Cole's Plastic Man, Doll Man, and Will Eisner's The Spirit.

 

What made these comics unique was their manner of distribution. While all the books contained a ten cent cover price, they were not sold individually. Instead they were bagged in groups of 3-5-7-9 comics, etc. and then sold at a greater discount than if they were purchased individually. For example, if it was a bag of 5 titles, that might go for 35 or 40 cents. My memory is very hazy about the pricing structure, but I remember that you had several different sizes of comic lots to choose from. They were sold at what used to be called five-and-dime stores.

 

I also have gotten a kick out of seeing these IW/Super comics again. But a couple of things. Many of the IW/Super comics had 12 cent cover prices not ten cent ones. Second, I'm pretty sure, they didn't have the rights to reprint these comics. I've heard a stack of old printing plates were found and these were used to make illegal copies. Since no cover plates were found, new covers had to be created. This makes sense since some many different company's comics were involved. In particular, Eisner owned the rights to Spirit and supposedly never gave those rights to Irving Waldman (? I think that was the name that IW stood for.)

 

Oh and BTW, soon (after I return from my dad's funeral) I'll scan Dennis #31 and post it on ABPC. I'll le tpeople know when.

 

Jon

[BillyBatson4360]

Interesting. It must have been a lot of printing plates because there are a lot of I-W/Super comics.

 

Anyway, as promised, here's a page from Clubhouse Rascals # 2. If you followed Jim's link, you've

already seen the cover. Ironically, that cover features Dan DeCarlo's "The Brain" in a far more

prominent position that the Clubhouse Rascals (and the Brain was just that magazine's

back-up feature).

 

Apparently, the editors had already figured out that the Brain was a better feature. In his own comic,

where the Clubhouse Rascals were the back-up, the Brain ran far longer than the Rascals (7 issues

to 2) and never had to share a cover with his back-up

 

 

As you can see the art looks vaguely like Wiseman, but really isn't anywhere near as good. The page

layout is pedestrian. None of the Rascals stories even used splash pages. They all feature first page

layouts pretty much like this one. Oh - and Fred Toole's scripts were light years ahead of this stuff!

[ComicBookGuy]

Check out what I just won for $5.24!

 

Dennis the Menace #3 on eBay

 

Yes, it's trashed, but it's the last one I need of the first ten for "reading / scanning " copies. I'll have no reservations about putting this one on my flatbed scanner.

 

By the way, I'm surprised no one seems to be stepping up to the plate on identifying artwork. Escape spent a lot of time scanning every page of Dennis #1, so it would be nice to get some commentary going on it from those of you who may be able to enlighten us. Was it all AW, or was it AW and I know the stories, have the comics, am willing to scan and index until all this is done, etc., but as I have said, I don't know anything about the stories behind the art on these and would love to learn about it. (Maybe nobody else knows either? )I think we're getting bits and pieces of info here and there, but it might be more effective if we focus in on, say, #1 - or any issue - since it's already scanned and just hear what people have to say about it; anecdotes, creator credits, art facts, story comments, history, etc. We're getting a lot of great info about Hawaii and Mexico from Jim, so maybe we could focus in on those next. I'd have no problem scanning in pages from a beat-up copy.

 

This thread has been very fascinating lately, and I've put my cover scanning on hold for a bit since it would seem disruptive to the cool conversations that are going on as new people are arriving. If you guys want me to resume, just say the word. When all is said and done here in a year or so, perhaps, I hope we can have all the Dennis comics indexed with artists identified for all issues. I think that is a good goal. I said it before and I'll say it again: All these Dennis artists, from Al Wiseman to Ron Ferdinand, have very little recognition, and they are long overdue for some. In the meantime, while all this is happening, it is great getting to meet with so many other Dennis fans.

 

Before, I mentioned I was going to the Wizard World Philly show in June. If anyone is planning on going, let me know. It would be great to meet up. Otherwise, maybe San Diego is a possibility as I have heard that mentioned already.

 

Joe

[balger-migration]

By the way, I'm surprised no one seems to be stepping up to the plate on identifying artwork. Escape spent a lot of time scanning every page of Dennis #1, so it would be nice to get some commentary going on it from those of you who may be able to enlighten us. Was it all AW, or was it AW and Iif we focus in on, say, #1 - or any issue - since it's already scanned and just hear what people have to say about it; anecdotes, creator credits, art facts, story comments, history, etc.

 

I haven't tried to identify the artwork from Dennis #1 because, frankly, it confuses me. Bill Wray seems to be able to go through the issue and identify what's not Wiseman pencils. (He used to own the original art for the inside back cover but sold it on eBay because the pencils weren't by Wiseman. I own the artwork to the back cover which looks to be pencilled by the same artist.) So maybe Bill W. can look through the issue and let us know. Shane Glines has apparently identified the other penciller in the issue, so hopefully we'll hear from him one day.

 

Bill A.

[BillyBatson4360]

I'm also wondering if Bill A. or Bill W. could fill in more details about the reasons behind Al Wiseman's

departure from Dennis.

 

Jim indicated that his father seemed unhappy with his page rate and that the end of the relationship

left him somewhat bitter about Hank Ketcham, but he didn't really have any specifics.

 

Could either of you gentlemen paint a more complete picture? This is a question that has puzzled

me for decades.

[balger-migration]

I'm also wondering if Bill A. or Bill W. could fill in more details about the reasons behind Al Wiseman's departure from Dennis.

 

Jim indicated that his father seemed unhappy with his page rate and that the end of the relationship

left him somewhat bitter about Hank Ketcham, but he didn't really have any specifics.

 

Could either of you gentlemen paint a more complete picture? This is a question that has puzzled

me for decades.

 

Jim's sister Jan told me that Al quit because his page rate had been lowered. I'd have to look through my notes for an exact quote, but that was her take on it. From what people have told me, there was tension between Al & Hank for years and Al had quit Dennis a few times before. I guess things got so bad that Al left Hanks studio to work on Dennis in his own studio. That was around the time Lee Holley was hired to work at Hanks studio. Seems Al felt that he wasn't getting enough credit or money for what he contributed to the Dennis industry. I wrote to Hank a couple of years before he died and he sent me a fairly bitter letter concerning Al. Needless to say, Al's quitting Dennis had been coming for some time...

 

Bill A.

[balger-migration]

Panals from an (apparently) unpublished story meant for the third issue of Clubhouse Rascals.

 

I need a bigger scanner...

 

 

[balger-migration]

 

 

[balger-migration]

Jim,

Cool to see what your father used for reference. Thanks!

 

 

 

Hey, did I chase everybody else off this list?

 

Bill A.

[Bill Wray-migration]

Bill W.,

Does this art (from Dennis the Menace Giant Vacation Special #2) look like Crenshaw pencils to you or somebody else? This layout always struck me as rather bland as compared to stories with Wiseman's energetic pencils.

 

 

Bill Alger and I just bought a AW Dennis story that looks like the the inking on this job. I'd have to see more to hazard a guess who penciled it. It might be Al or Crenshaw, but my gut says it's someone else, I'm pretty positive it's that other inker. Word balloon placment is not so hot either that might be a clue.

Edited April 27, 2005 by Bill Wray

[balger-migration]

Bill Alger and I just bought a AW Dennis story that looks like the the inking on this job. I'd have to see more to hazard a guess who penciled it. It might be Al or Crenshaw, but my gut says it's someone else, I'm pretty positive it's that other inker. Word balloon placment is not so hot either that might be a clue.

 

The Dennis story we bought (and split up) was inked in by Vic Lockman.

 

Bill A.

[Bill Wray-migration]

Check out what I just won for $5.24!

 

Dennis the Menace #3 on eBay

 

Yes, it's trashed, but it's the last one I need of the first ten for "reading / scanning " copies. I'll have no reservations about putting this one on my flatbed scanner.

 

By the way, I'm surprised no one seems to be stepping up to the plate on identifying artwork. Escape spent a lot of time scanning every page of Dennis #1, so it would be nice to get some commentary going on it from those of you who may be able to enlighten us. Was it all AW, or was it AW and I know the stories, have the comics, am willing to scan and index until all this is done, etc., but as I have said, I don't know anything about the stories behind the art on these and would love to learn about it. (Maybe nobody else knows either? )I think we're getting bits and pieces of info here and there, but it might be more effective if we focus in on, say, #1 - or any issue - since it's already scanned and just hear what people have to say about it; anecdotes, creator credits, art facts, story comments, history, etc. We're getting a lot of great info about Hawaii and Mexico from Jim, so maybe we could focus in on those next. I'd have no problem scanning in pages from a beat-up copy.

 

This thread has been very fascinating lately, and I've put my cover scanning on hold for a bit since it would seem disruptive to the cool conversations that are going on as new people are arriving. If you guys want me to resume, just say the word. When all is said and done here in a year or so, perhaps, I hope we can have all the Dennis comics indexed with artists identified for all issues. I think that is a good goal. I said it before and I'll say it again: All these Dennis artists, from Al Wiseman to Ron Ferdinand, have very little recognition, and they are long overdue for some. In the meantime, while all this is happening, it is great getting to meet with so many other Dennis fans.

 

Before, I mentioned I was going to the Wizard World Philly show in June. If anyone is planning on going, let me know. It would be great to meet up. Otherwise, maybe San Diego is a possibility as I have heard that mentioned already.

 

Joe

 

I'm to busy with work to give a thorough look to the scans of #1 over, but off the top of my head. First story Al W pencils not his inks.

 

Second story Mystery pencils, some pencil fixes by Al and it looks like he inked it.

 

Mystery pencils, I think the same guy as story 2 again with some Al pencil fixes, not sure who inked, has a gang bang feeling of at least 3 artists. This guy definitely worked on the early Sunday art as well.

[balger-migration]

I'm to busy with work to give a thorough look to the scans of #1 over, but off the top of my head. First story Al W pencils not his inks.

 

Second story Mystery pencils, some pencil fixes by Al and it looks like he inked it.

 

Mystery pencils, I think the same guy as story 2 again with some Al pencil fixes, not sure who inked, has a gang bang feeling of at least 3 artists. This guy definitely worked on the early Sunday art as well.

 

Always great to hear your insights Bill!

[Wiseguy-migration]

Does anyone know the cartoonist Joe Messerli?

He knew AW in the mid 50's. I have a snapshot of us trout fishing in Pine Flat.

(Pine Flat and California Hot Springs appear a lot in DTM in the mid 50's)

Don't know if Joe worked on DTM or not.

He has done a lot of work for Disney and Sesame Street.

 

 

JRW

[balger-migration]

Does anyone know the cartoonist Joe Messerli?

He knew AW in the mid 50's. I have a snapshot of us trout fishing in Pine Flat.

(Pine Flat and California Hot Springs appear a lot in DTM in the mid 50's)

Don't know if Joe worked on DTM or not.

He has done a lot of work for Disney and Sesame Street.

 

JRW

 

Jim,

Nope, never heard of him & not sure if he worked on Dennis. According to comics writer Mark Evanier's site, he also worked on Daffy Duck comics for Gold Key:

 

"The artists on this comic while I was writing it were Pete Alvarado, Jack Manning, Joe Messerli and John Carey, and a couple of those guys had been drawing Daffy for decades and weren't about to change."

 

And Woody Woodpecker comics for Gold Key:

 

"I wrote a number of Woody stories fully aware I was writing Woody stories, and they were nicely drawn by John Carey, Jack Manning and Joe Messerli, among others."

 

Bill A.