Fantastic Four will historically be known as what killed the comic movie craze!

[miraclemet]

...and just focus on the fact that Sue was adopted.

 

Why? Why throw that twist in there? What was it's purpose? Why diverge from the source material on that point? What possible purpose did it serve?

 

Any work of art is like a woven tapestry. You can't tug on one end without changing a balance or creating a problem somewhere else because it's all connected. Same with a movie - when you add a detail it affects the feel of the whole movie in some way.

 

The fact that the final tapestry sucked when it should have rocked showed that whoever oversaw this film had no idea what they were doing. And making Sue adopted was just one piece of the whole puzzle.

 

But to me it speaks volumes about how lost whoever was in charge of this movie actually was.

 

I think I said it before, I actually liked the Sue being adopted nugget, because to me it added to the underlying theme of choosing your family.

 

Not the one you are born with (as they made the point to depict the bad parents of Ben, and Reed to a lesser degree) but the one you choose.

 

So having Sue adopted adds to that idea of the importance and value of the chosen family, because at the end of it the F4 turn into one of those families that has chose to be together.

 

could it have made the same point w/o the adoption? sure, but it would have been a thinner tapestry

[Prince Namor]

So where's the uproar over Will Smith playing Deadshot?

 

Nobody reads DC Comics.

 

I agree that the adoption storyline adds a bit of complication to the backstory, but nothing that literally two sentences didn't explain.

 

But why? Why add that to the backstory? What purpose did it serve to the main story? None. So the answer is: Because they were trying to expand their audience. And no one likes a telegraphed sales pitch. Nobody wants to be marketed to.

 

They selected an acclaimed and popular actor with a great track record to play Johnny as an impulsive hothead, and he nailed it.

 

Is he really acclaimed? Maybe people are seeing something I'm not, but he seems like an adapt actor to me - and not everyone was happy with his performance...

 

I don't know... another young Hollywood actor that we're TOLD is great...with little to back it up and a resume that doesn't include a movie yet to have broken $65MIL at the box office....

 

The -script didn't allow him to have as much fun with it as Evans did 10 years ago, but that wasn't Jordan's fault in the least.

 

You're right, so you have a bad -script, an over hyped actor, and a racial set up that's unnecessary to the story.

 

How did no one see this coming?

 

Oh wait, I DID.

 

I certainly bought him as Johnny Storm a lot more than I bought Miles Teller as Reed Richards.

 

I agree with that. Another over hyped actor we're told is 'great'.

 

Fox should've had some balls, and made the whole team black, added some action, called it anything BUT the Fantastic Four, and paid for the whole thing with a fraction of the money they'd have made selling the FF rights back to Marvel.

 

I'd have went to see that.

 

Writing from moblie so I might be brief.

 

I think we'd all agree one of the all time themes of F4 is family. And not just the one you are born into, but also the ones you choose. I think the adoption layer adds to that idea.

 

Honestly race didnt even register on my radar as a theme beyond the adoption explanation/ hows he your dad eyebrowraise.

 

The idea of being black doesn't bother me either - Nick Fury, the Kingpin, didn't even phase me - but the idea that this was a marketing decision does.

 

Jordan does have some acclaim (though not based on box office reciepts,but are you really equating good acting to money?)

 

No, but I keep waiting for someone to suggest a scene or something that I can view.. until then I don't have much to go on. If I say Gene Hackman is an acclaimed actor, I can point to a number of scenes on youtube to show my point, even from his first few years in the business.

 

Many critics thought he was getring an oscar nomination for Fruitville. He was a well recieved actor on two renownded Tv shows; The Wire and Friday Night Lights. So yes he probably came in with equal cache as Teller.

 

Teller's another one I don't get. I wish I could see something to show me why he's 'acclaimed'.

 

I dont think good actors (teller, and others have been great elsewhere) can overcome bad scripts, bad directors, and poor editors.

 

Gene Hackman can!

[jsilverjanet]

I thought he was chosen not for being black but because the director liked the actor and wanted him to play the role (or the actor asked to play the role)?

 

:shrug:

[VintageComics]

Teller's another one I don't get. I wish I could see something to show me why he's 'acclaimed'.

Whiplash was pretty awesome.

 

That Awkward Moment was pretty good.

 

He's not a bad actor. But I don't think he fit this movie very well.

 

 

[Gatsby77]

And perhaps for chemistry's sake?

 

I don't know if the decision to cast Jordan was "a marketing decision."

 

I don't know if, rather, he was the best actor who auditioned for the role.

 

I _do_ know that he is critically acclaimed for his work in The Wire, Friday Night Lights, and (particularly) Fruitvale Station. He's paid his dues (and well) for over a decade.

 

I _do_ know that networking matters, and he'd already worked well with Josh Trank (in Chronicle) and Miles Teller (in That Awkward Moment), so there's clear history (and chemistry) with the FF director and lead actor.

 

I'm also aware of how hot he got immediately after Fruitvale Station -- so, I take it back: His casting was no doubt a marketing decision, but that's separate and apart from his race being a part of it, or from the "marketing decision" being any type of capitulation to "PC" interests.

 

He could, in fact, have been the best for the job.

 

Among the current Hollywood "It" kids who are being shoved down our throats, Miles Teller and Michael B. Jordan are leagues ahead of the wooden talentless hacks exemplified by Jai Courtney and Sam Worthington.

[VintageComics]

I _do_ know that networking matters, and he'd already worked well with Josh Trank (in Chronicle) and Miles Teller (in That Awkward Moment), so there's clear history (and chemistry) with the FF director and lead actor.

 

It's always relationships that make the decisions and I agree this may have been the biggest factors.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It is absolutely "borderline racist" to criticize Jordan's casting in this movie.

 

Oh please. Only racists see racism around every corner.

 

 

There is _nothing_ about the character that necessitates him being white, given an adoption twist.

 

If I get an actor to portray your life, would it be appropriate to cast a 10 year old Vietnamese girl to play your part...?

 

Because if it's not, that's "borderline racist." After all, she may be a phenomenal actress, PERFECT to play the part of the great Gatsby...denying her that chance is "borderline racist."

 

 

And where was the outrage when we got a black Nick Fury or a black Kingpin? Neither of those changes were necessary or faithful to the books either.

 

You weren't paying attention.

 

Or that we had a part Hispanic actress play Sue Storm in the last two FF movies?

 

Michael B. Jordan brought the necessary cockiness & impulsiveness to the role -- he was great. And the vast majority of critics agree that of the main actors, he was a highlight.

 

Ditto, if he weren't too old, I would love to see Idris Elba as the next James Bond. Same thing -- having read all the Fleming books & seen the movies, there's nothing that requires Bond to be white.

 

"Too old"? What do you mean, "too old"...?

 

Ageist!

 

What does his AGE have anything to do with it...?

 

After all, it shouldn't matter what someone looks like, right...?

 

Non. Sense.

 

Besides, Roger Moore was nearly 58 the last time he played Bond in 1985. Elba's not even 43.

 

Ian Fleming's creation was NOT a VISUAL depiction, so, sure, Bond could be a black guy, no problem.

 

But Johnny Storm is not black, you are not a 10 year old Vietnamese girl, and James Bond isn't a septuagenarian.

 

At what point does this PC train stop...? Total madness?

 

[Gatsby77]

I've seen most of Miles Teller's movies.

 

Anyone who doubts his chops need only watch Whiplash or Rabbit Hole.

 

He bad-mouthed FF just as he bad-mouthed the Divergent series -- dude's an actor, and he clearly knows he needs to do these big-budget sci-fi films in order to gain the Hollywood cred to do the smaller indie films that allow him to stretch.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It is absolutely "borderline racist" to criticize Jordan's casting in this movie.

 

There is _nothing_ about the character that necessitates him being white, given an adoption twist.

 

And where was the outrage when we got a black Nick Fury or a black Kingpin? Neither of those changes were necessary or faithful to the books either.

 

Or that we had a part Hispanic actress play Sue Storm in the last two FF movies?

 

Michael B. Jordan brought the necessary cockiness & impulsiveness to the role -- he was great. And the vast majority of critics agree that of the main actors, he was a highlight.

 

Ditto, if he weren't too old, I would love to see Idris Elba as the next James Bond. Same thing -- having read all the Fleming books & seen the movies, there's nothing that requires Bond to be white.

 

So John Cena could play Luke Cage?

 

Marky Mark could play Blade?

 

Toby Maguire could play Static?

 

Stone Cold Steve Austin to play Moses Magnum?

 

Triple H could play Tyroc?

 

Why stop there?

 

Natalie Portman as the Hulk

 

Meryl Streep as Iron Man

 

Emmanuel Lewis as Thor

 

Bill Cosby as Franklin Richards

 

CGI Fred Astaire as Bishop

 

The possibilities are ENDLESS!

[ComicConnoisseur]

I've seen most of Miles Teller's movies.

 

Anyone who doubts his chops need only watch Whiplash or Rabbit Hole.

 

He bad-mouthed FF just as he bad-mouthed the Divergent series -- dude's an actor, and he clearly knows he needs to do these big-budget sci-fi films in order to gain the Hollywood cred to do the smaller indie films that allow him to stretch.

I seen Whiplash a good movie.

Something different. Great drum scenes.

Buddy Rich rules!

 

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

I shudder to think what Bill Cosby would do with Franklin Richards' powers.

[Prince Namor]

Teller's another one I don't get. I wish I could see something to show me why he's 'acclaimed'.

Whiplash was pretty awesome.

 

That Awkward Moment was pretty good.

 

He's not a bad actor. But I don't think he fit this movie very well.

 

 

I'm not saying he's bad, just puzzled at 'acclaimed'.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

I shudder to think what Bill Cosby would do with Franklin Richards' powers.

[Bosco685]

I shudder to think what Bill Cosby would do with Franklin Richards' powers.

 

Way too soon.

 

[Prince Namor]

It is absolutely "borderline racist" to criticize Jordan's casting in this movie.

 

There is _nothing_ about the character that necessitates him being white, given an adoption twist.

 

And where was the outrage when we got a black Nick Fury or a black Kingpin? Neither of those changes were necessary or faithful to the books either.

 

Or that we had a part Hispanic actress play Sue Storm in the last two FF movies?

 

Michael B. Jordan brought the necessary cockiness & impulsiveness to the role -- he was great. And the vast majority of critics agree that of the main actors, he was a highlight.

 

Ditto, if he weren't too old, I would love to see Idris Elba as the next James Bond. Same thing -- having read all the Fleming books & seen the movies, there's nothing that requires Bond to be white.

 

So John Cena could play Luke Cage?

 

Marky Mark could play Blade?

 

Toby Maguire could play Static?

 

Stone Cold Steve Austin to play Moses Magnum?

 

Triple H could play Tyroc?

 

Why stop there?

 

Natalie Portman as the Hulk

 

Meryl Streep as Iron Man

 

Emmanuel Lewis as Thor

 

Bill Cosby as Franklin Richards

 

CGI Fred Astaire as Bishop

 

The possibilities are ENDLESS!

 

Peter Dinklage as Stiltman?

[VintageComics]

Teller's another one I don't get. I wish I could see something to show me why he's 'acclaimed'.

Whiplash was pretty awesome.

 

That Awkward Moment was pretty good.

 

He's not a bad actor. But I don't think he fit this movie very well.

 

 

I'm not saying he's bad, just puzzled at 'acclaimed'.

 

 

How about 'almost acclaimed'?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Chris Hemsworth has no business playing Bishop. Or Storm. Or Black Panther. Or Luke Cage. Or Miles Morales. Or Cloak. Or Psylocke. Or Aunt May. Or Uncle Ben. Or the Mandarin. Or Sue Storm. Or She-Hulk.

 

Am I making the point clear...? It has nothing to do with "borderline racism"...it has everything to do with appropriate casting. It doesn't matter whether the actor is black, white, brown, green, blue, or purple. What does the CHARACTER look like? That's what matters.

 

It doesn't matter if Chris Hemsworth would make a PHENOMENAL Sue Storm. The fact is, he's NOT A WOMAN. Nor is he black, Asian, Hispanic, etc,

 

But what is he...? A perfect Thor.

 

Trying to shoehorn actors into roles they do not represent is pandering, and accusing those who object of being "borderline racist" IS race baiting.

 

Do you want Michael B. Jordan to play a cocky, strutting young man with the power of the Human Torch? Then create a new character, and make that him.

 

It's really not that hard, and it's certainly not racist.

[miraclemet]

 

There is _nothing_ about the character that necessitates him being white, given an adoption twist.

 

If I get an actor to portray your life, would it be appropriate to cast a 10 year old Vietnamese girl to play your part...?

 

Because if it's not, that's "borderline racist."

 

It depends on what you are trying to convey.... if some of Gatsby's experiences are informed by his ethnicity, then changing it doesnt make sense, if you are trying to convey that experience.

 

we've had this discussion before. If what is being portrayed has no racial connotation the role could go to an actor of any race.

 

What's key about Johnny?

 

He's a hothead...no race element there, anyone can be a hot head.

he likes cars...still no race element

he's anti-establishment... still nothing...

he's protective of his sister... nope anyone can be protective of their sister.

 

The nice thing about Lee/Kirby characters are they arent exceptionally complex, so they are pretty easy to transcribe to anyone.

 

so what makes it so Johnny cant be portrayed by anyone?

 

Heck, switch Kate and Michael in the roles and nothing changes (ok I don't think you could pull off saying Michael was adopted from Serbia, but other than that).

 

Heck a female Reed Richards would be very interesting considering Reed had all of the "no one thinks I can do this" background, and you add in the gender inequality in the science community and it makes for an even more interesting social commentary.

 

[miraclemet]

 

Peter Dinklage as Stiltman?

 

actually a good name to bring up. Dinklage has been cast in multiple roles that had nothing to do with his size.

 

The roles were not size dependant, so why not him?

 

Now he couldnt be cast as "The Mountain" on Game of Thrones because size does matter in that role, but he's had many roles where he was just a guy, not a small guy.

[Prince Namor]

A Tribute to Kate Mara’s Awful Wig in ‘Fantastic Four’

 

 

By Kyle Buchanan

 

Poor Fantastic Four! The buzz has been so poisonous for this comic-book movie that after overwhelmingly negative reviews rolled in this week, even director Josh Trank was moved to disavow the film’s final cut. But in the face of so much that has gone wrong here, is there anything in Fantastic Four that’s somehow so wrong, it’s actually right? I would argue yes, and I point you to the most audacious thing featured in this very expensive, very sleepy movie: the very fake Reshoots Wig they slapped on female lead Kate Mara. Hoo, boy, is it a sight to behold.

 

 

The fact that a considerable chunk ofFantastic Four was scuttled and reshot is not news: In fact, some suspect that the cost of those reshoots is one of the reasons why the movie’s planned 3-D conversion was torpedoed. What is surprising, however, is just how little the filmmakers seemed to care about continuity when it came to Kata Mara’s friggin’ head. It’s so glaringly obvious when the recently shorn Mara is wearing her Reshoots Wig that her hair’s length, color, and texture varies from scene to scene (and sometimes even from shot to shot). If you sit through the end credits, you will see the names of hundreds of special-effects technicians who drove this movie’s budget into nine digits and spent two years laboring away on Fantastic Four’s smallest details; it is almost perverse, then, that something as important as real-looking hair on a lady was given less priority than whether or not the Thing looked like Floory.

 

 

While this fake-hair snafu might sound like one of the film’s many problems, I actually found it sort of endearing. This is an awfully quiet, airless movie, and after a few dour punch lines in the early going, there’s little intentional entertainment to be had. Eventually, I began to regard Mara’s Reshoots Wig as kind of a lifeline: Every time I found myself wondering why the characters never went outside or why Jamie Bell and Michael B. Jordan had virtually no lines in their big mainstream superhero movie, I could count on that Reshoots Wig to pop up somewhere and make me laugh. How blonde and shellacked is it? After the movie ended, in lieu of a post-credits tag featuring Nick Fury, I expected Megyn Kelly to show up and invite Sue to join Fox News.

 

 

Already I’ve seen fanboys try to explain away Sue’s hair horror-show by noting that a one-year time jump occurs in the middle of the movie, which, theoretically, would give Sue plenty of time to ditch the chic, roots-baring lob she has when we meet her and then transition to a gold silk hairpiece that looks like Austin Scarlett made it entirely out of corn. These defenders are well-intentioned people, but they have probably never seen a picture of Kim Zolciak. Do not trust them. Let it be known, definitively, that the Invisible Woman’s two major powers are wig-wearing and bubble-driving, and while the latter ability is awfully cute (she envelops so many people in bubbles that she might as well be in Milon’s Secret Castle), it’s the power of Sue’s Reshoots Wig that intermittently makes Fantastic Four what it ought to be: a lot more fun.